Volkswagen's Clean Air Act violations on 2009+ TDIs spark huge recall, investigations

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ray96disco

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Feb 3, 2014
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San Antonio, TX
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2014 Jetta Sportwagen
There are charging stations at the grocery store here. I can't believe there wouldn't be enough around bizzle's town to keep him juiced.
 

rick_deckard

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NC
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2014 Golf TDI Sun/Nav
We don't have ANY in my town. The closest city that has them is about an hour and a half away in a parking garage.

EDIT: I'm referring to public stations, as the dealerships that sell EV's have them.
 
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rick_deckard

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2014 Golf TDI Sun/Nav
You can always plug it in at home, right? They're not for everyone.
Oh, absolutely. I was just saying the reason I like the TDI over the electric is that you get great mileage AND can reliably take long road trips in it. I wish I could afford to have an around town vehicle and a distance one, but just one at a time for me.
 

bizzle

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Southern California
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2015 GSW SEL (totaled), 2013 Touareg Executive
Keep in mind, no matter what we do with the JSW we still have our ALH buggie that's never leaving the family (and even more confident of that decision with each passing day of this current issue ;))

That said, I called the dealer back and they're working on extending the loyalty offer to the end of next week until VW announces what they're going to do for us TDI owners (California's deadline is Nov 20th, but he's hoping they will tell us next week).

Worst case scenario is we get the eGolf and then trade the JSW in on a new TDI.
 

ray96disco

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San Antonio, TX
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2014 Jetta Sportwagen
That said, I called the dealer back and they're working on extending the loyalty offer to the end of next week until VW announces what they're going to do for us TDI owners (California's deadline is Nov 20th, but he's hoping they will tell us next week).
You have to wonder if they won't extend the program if they don't get the sales numbers they want.
 

autdi

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Alabama
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2000 NB, 2003 NB, 2006 Touareg, 2015 Jetta, 2015 Jetta
You can always plug it in at home, right? They're not for everyone.
Not if you rent something other than a house with a garage, the 120V plug takes a long time, outdoor GFIs trip for next to nothing, so knowing, really knowing you have a fully charged car is not a given with any sort of common, non-dedicated charging station.

While I'm intrigued by the technology, the location of the nearest dealer (73 miles) is such it's marginal if I'd get one all the way home.
 
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bizzle

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Southern California
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2015 GSW SEL (totaled), 2013 Touareg Executive
Not if you rent something other than a house with a garage, the 120V plug takes a long time, outdoor GFIs trip for next to nothing, so knowing, really knowing you have a fully charged car is not a given with any sort of common, non-dedicated charging station.

While I'm intrigued by the technology, the location of the nearest dealer (73 miles) is such it's marginal if I'd get one all the way home.
We live out in the desert. We're about 20 miles over range. Not yet sure how we're going to get it home :eek:
 

rick_deckard

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NC
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2014 Golf TDI Sun/Nav
Not if you rent something other than a house with a garage, the 120V plug takes a long time, outdoor GFIs trip for next to nothing, so knowing, really knowing you have a fully charged car is not a given with any sort of common, non-dedicated charging station.

While I'm intrigued by the technology, the location of the nearest dealer (73 miles) is such it's marginal if I'd get one all the way home.
I was kinda wondering that. I know in San Diego and a few other parts of California at least (according to a few news articles I've read), there is a push to get EV charging stations installed into multi-family homes - apartments - and they have quite a few stations around the larger cities in the state. Doing that in my state would require an act of God (landlord approval, resident approval for my designated spot, and finding a way to properly charge only ME for the usage). We won't even pay our public educators, so I can't imagine charging stations are high on the list.

A friend of mine's father owns a Tesla S (drooooool) and has the charging station in his garage but only commutes about 8 miles to work so it's a non-issue. They also have a Q7 TDI, so best of both worlds. I'd love to have that option.
 

autdi

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Alabama
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2000 NB, 2003 NB, 2006 Touareg, 2015 Jetta, 2015 Jetta
We live out in the desert. We're about 20 miles over range. Not yet sure how we're going to get it home :eek:
I see a nice sit down meal in your purchase experience, at a location sporting a charging station.
 

ray96disco

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San Antonio, TX
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2014 Jetta Sportwagen
I may be wrong but at this point, they're not much more than commuter cars in larger cities. I don't think they're for everyone. You need a relatively short commute and an add on to your home electrical system. It's nothing more than upgrading a dedicated outlet to handle it. Yes, it's easier for a homeowner to do this than a tenant but, again, it's not for everyone. I think the electric car people are just as quirky (ok, more so) as TDI people.
 

bluey

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Oct 18, 2008
Location
Australia
TDI
Skoda Yeti 2.0L 103kW CR TDI (CFHC) [MY09 Polo TDI 1.9 74kW (AXR) retired with hail damage]
[[...]
3. SCR without long-term extended warranty is a time bomb ticking to explode in the face of consumer and consumer alone
[...]
Who said the SCR system won't be covered by the legislated EPA 10 year warranty?
 

ndmike88

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Location
Hendersonville,TN. 37075
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'09 Jetta TDI
My dealer has said they know as much as we know. Nothing more. It's interesting how some know nothing and some know something!


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
When I spoke with my dealer today he said the German big wheels were at the Chattanooga plant here in Tennessee and that they were explaining some of the new features of the new Passat.
The TDI problem came up and that is what they were told. As far as the gift card goes he didn't know the amount. Could be $25.00. Could be $1,000. Could be used for Chuckie E Cheese tokens...
 

rick_deckard

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Location
NC
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2014 Golf TDI Sun/Nav
When I spoke with my dealer today he said the German big wheels were at the Chattanooga plant here in Tennessee and that they were explaining some of the new features of the new Passat.
The TDI problem came up and that is what they were told. As far as the gift card goes he didn't know the amount. Could be $25.00. Could be $1,000. Could be used for Chuckie E Cheese tokens...
UGH! Worthless if you don't have kids...
 

PlaneCrazy

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Location
Province of Quebec, Canada
TDI
Gone...
I may be wrong but at this point, they're not much more than commuter cars in larger cities. I don't think they're for everyone. You need a relatively short commute and an add on to your home electrical system. It's nothing more than upgrading a dedicated outlet to handle it. Yes, it's easier for a homeowner to do this than a tenant but, again, it's not for everyone. I think the electric car people are just as quirky (ok, more so) as TDI people.
This nicely sums up my view on this whole EV discussion:



EVs and TDIs fulfill two completely different missions. It's pointless to even compare the two. I surmise if one can replace a TDI with an EV, one hasn't been using the TDI to do what it was designed for. It would be like buying a Boeing 777-200LR to only fly the Montreal-Toronto shuttle.
 

gene r

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Santa Barbara, CA
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2010 Jetta TDI sold back to VW
A friend of mine's father owns a Tesla S (drooooool) and has the charging station in his garage but only commutes about 8 miles to work so it's a non-issue. They also have a Q7 TDI, so best of both worlds. I'd love to have that option.
Ask him which he uses the most. We have a Tesla and a TDI. We use the Tesla MUCH more and especially only the Tesla for our multi-hundred mile trips to the SW 4 Corners area and to the Pacific Northwest. Superchargers are well laid out over the areas we like.
 

GigaFire

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Vancouver, Canada
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2012 CW Golf
I'm sitting on the outcome of the possible repairs to my manual 2012 as well. Because of increasingly more frequent medical issues (problem with left foot+clutch=hell getting to work) it's becoming harder to drive the car, though I enjoy the hell out of it. Quick enough, fun to drive especially after putting in the S3 shifter, and if I refuse to do the recall, the Malone tune is always there.

I may consider any possible trade incentives to stay within the brand, if VW puts the option on the table for consumers who would rather not have any new systems installed. Maybe a DSG GTI perhaps? Yes it'd be sinking myself a bit financially, but external circumstances are making it a more rational decision to give up.

Just my .02 on the whole thing.
 

gene r

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Santa Barbara, CA
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2010 Jetta TDI sold back to VW
Yep, we plan on keeping our JSW and leasing the eGolf.
Bizzle, I have driven the eGolf and I really like it. Do check out the Fiat 500E as it is less money and still lots of fun. There are several lowered 500e's around my neighborhood that look great. I haven't tried but I have heard the Kia Soul EV is very nice and it does have a longer range than the eGolf. Oh yeah, the Chevy Spark is super fast and less expensive than the eGolf. Just sayin' you might try a few others (maybe you already have).
 

RBTDI

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Location
OH-IO
TDI
2014 VW Passat TDI SEL, Night Blue / Titan Black
Actually it was closer to 53 MPG, that is not the correct pic. But pretty close. Point is, these cars can get pretty good MPGs. They are geared MUCH taller than the older cars. I keep forgetting it has a 6th gear, LOL.
I just finished a trip to Baltimore and back, getting 46-47 mpg. It may not begin with a 5, but it's still damn good mileage for a comfortable, 4 door sedan! Love my TDI:D
 

VarmintSlayer

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Napanee, Ontario
TDI
2009 Trendline TDI 6spd manual Black
From what I hear there will be a big filler port attached to the top of your hood. It will open automatically when the nozzle is inserted.

There will be a DEF monitor in the car with a cell link.

When it comes on as soon as you hit the Interstate a big VW DEF tanker plane will fly overhead and automatically top you off ala midflight jet refueling. You speed up to 100 and it matches your speed, then a refueling boom is lowered until it mates with the port.

It sounds complicated but VW was trying to come up with a way to spill less DEF on your car than the service technicians do.
The 09's will be recieving a minature Rob Halford clone, he will be strapped to the hood and spit DEF fluid into the intake.:D
 

S2000_guy

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ohio
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2014 Sportwagen TDI
FWIW, I am not as certain as many seem to be that it is a certainty that all states will require the "fix" whatever it might be, to be completed in order to renew registration. For the most part, emissions tests check sensors, and if they all check out "ready" then you pass-- which all of these cars will do in their present condition. It seems to me that any rule targeting "affected" TDI owners will require new legislation at the state level. As far as I can tell, this is even true for California, because I am not sure that CARB has authority to target specific vehicle owners, rather than automakers. Because they will have to change the emissions test rules for these specific cars.

Nor is it very obvious, as many seem to think, that the EPA could force the states to do this. Through what mechanism? The EPA has zero control over auto registration at the state level. It is possible, as some have noted, that the federal government might attempt to force the states to act, in the same way that it forced the adopting of the Age 21 drinking age, or 55mph speed limit, etc. But that would likely require an new Act of Congress to support the EPA position. Have you checked in on the Congress lately? Not likely to support the EPA on anything, ever.

And even if it were, the "withhold funding" mechanism to force states to do XYZ, which produced the Age 21 drinking age and 55mph speed limit, among other things, was ruled unconstitutional by the Supreme Court just a year or two ago (the Obamacare decision).

It is going to be a very long while for a fix to be designed, proposed, and approved. It will then be another very long while before there is any mechanism to compel adoption of the fix by vehicle owners. And then yet another very long while to get the fix, because of the queue that would then exist at VW dealers.

I think it likely that I will put another 60 or 70k miles on the car before any of this could become an issue that I must deal with.
Apparently Senator Markey (D-MA) didn't get the memo regarding the unconstitutionality of withholding funds, because he introduced the RECALL act into the Senate in May:

https://www.congress.gov/bill/114th-congress/senate-bill/617

"This bill declares that a state is in compliance with safety recall requirements if the state agency responsible for motor vehicle registration ensures, by a motor vehicle identification number search of the National Highway Traffic Safety Administration's recall database, that each registered owner of a motor vehicle registered in the state is notified of all recalls issued by the vehicle's manufacturer by certain deadlines, depending on when the vehicle is registered.

A state must also require that owners complete all recall remedies as a prerequisite for motor vehicle registration renewal, with the following exceptions:

...

The Secretary of Transportation shall withhold 5% of federal highway funds from a state that is not in compliance with these requirements."

Yes, it's safety recalls and does not, currently, cover emissions recalls.

And you're right: Congress is not known for getting things done.
 

tsingtao

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Phoenix, AZ
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2016 Mazda 3 Hatchback 2009 Jetta TDI--Bought back 12/21/16
If and when it does, then there may be something to talk about. Are you willing to pay $300/hr for this legal counsel of which you speak?
.
I don't know. I don't think you have to pay to get legal adivice on this case. They are falling over themselves trying to get clients. I have lawyers offering to take the case on contingency (no recovery no pay; they take 30%) on an individual (not class action) basis.

They call me at least twice a week and leave a voicemail. i have not called back because I want to wait and see what VW's plan is first.
 

TDILeo

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Portland OR
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CW 2011 Golf TDI 6M Repurchased By VW 1/30/17 1985 VW GTI
If a retrofit SCR system is the solution offered by VW for my EA189 AND it is installed without compromising ANY space, performance, torque and fuel economy AND the ENTIRE exhaust system from manifold to the end of the tailpipe is 100% warrantied for the life of my car as long as I own it, VW can keep their gift cards. Did I forget anything?

Oh yeah, free urea refills for life.
 

bubbagumpshrimp

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Location
Virginia
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'13 Jetta TDI
If a retrofit SCR system is the solution offered by VW for my EA189 AND it is installed without compromising ANY space, performance, torque and fuel economy AND the ENTIRE exhaust system from manifold to the end of the tailpipe is 100% warrantied for the life of my car as long as I own it, VW can keep their gift cards. Did I forget anything?

Oh yeah, free urea refills for life.
Hell nah...I want my gift card. Maybe get me some V-dub dubs and some springs to drop my TDI like it's hot.:D
 

tsingtao

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Location
Phoenix, AZ
TDI
2016 Mazda 3 Hatchback 2009 Jetta TDI--Bought back 12/21/16
Just came from the dealer......A gift card and trade in appraisal is coming to TDI owners this week or next week. He didn't know how much the gift card would be for but he said everyone who is THINKING about trading in their TDI should hold on.
He also said next month VW is going to start up their Sign & Drive promotion. He expects to sell 25 new VW's compared to the normal 15.
Also he said that no one will be forced to have the recall performed. The government can only force safety recalls. (California might be the exception)
They promised to keep me informed as to what else they hear.

My dealer just called me today and left a voicemail offering me the the $2000 loyalty bonus that is available to anyone with a VW, gas or diesel. I didn't call back.
 

razorrod

Well-known member
Joined
Oct 12, 2015
Location
US
TDI
Passat SEL
I was thinking go ahead and trade my Passat for Benz E CDI or BlueTec. I can find them around 20,000.
What do you think?
 
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