Volkswagen's Clean Air Act violations on 2009+ TDIs spark huge recall, investigations

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TDIpilot4u

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Hmmm wonder what will come from this.

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Timeline:
9/18/2015 EPA press release: http://yosemite.epa.gov/opa/admpres...dfc8e33b5ab162b985257ec40057813b!OpenDocument
9/18/2015 EPA notice of violation: http://www3.epa.gov/otaq/cert/documents/vw-nov-caa-09-18-15.pdf
9/18/2015 CARB compliance letter set to Volkswagen: http://www.arb.ca.gov/newsrel/in_use_compliance_letter.htm
9/18/2015 Volkswagen statement regarding EPA investigation: http://media.vw.com/release/1064/
9/18/2015 Stop sale notice from VWoA to dealers: http://pics.tdiclub.com/data/3209/stop-sale-note3.pdf
9/20/2015 STATEMENT OF PROF. DR. MARTIN WINTERKORN, CEO OF VOLKSWAGEN AG: http://media.vw.com/release/1066/
9/20/2015 VW’s Emissions Cheating Found by Curious Clean-Air Group - Washington Post article with an overview: http://washpost.bloomberg.com/Story?docId=1376-NUXWZM6JTSE901-44SIDIDMH3F3206LJABAVM0V73.
9/21/2015 "Volkswagen Canada has issued a stop-sale order to our dealers for all of the affected vehicles pending resolution of this matter": http://www.cbc.ca/news/business/volkswagen-emissions-rigging-1.3236548..
9/21/2015 Tech presentation from TDIFest over the Labor Day weekend on the subject of DEF and SCR by TDIMeister: http://forums.tdiclub.com/showpost.php?p=4893129&postcount=1613
9/21/2015 Volkswagen the subject of an upcoming congressional hearing: http://energycommerce.house.gov/pre...-announce-hearing-volkswagen-emissions-issues
9/22/2015 CEO Martin Winterkorn issues profuse apology: http://www.telegraph.co.uk/finance/...W-issues-profit-warning-sets-aside-6.5bn.html
9/22/2015 Volkswagen admits to "defeat device" being on 11 million EA189 diesel engines world-wide: http://jalopnik.com/volkswagen-admits-it-cheated-with-11-million-engines-s-1732283322
September 2015 white paper NOx Control Technologies for Euro 6 Diesel Passenger Cars: http://www.theicct.org/sites/default/files/publications/ICCT_NOx-control-tech_revised 09152015.pdf
11/2/2015: 3.0 V6 TDI engines included in scandal http://www.usatoday.com/story/money/cars/2015/11/02/epa-diesel-suv-volkswagen-audi-porsche/75044132/
5/30/2014 WVU CAFEE study that uncovered the emissions scandal: http://www.theicct.org/use-emissions-testing-light-duty-diesel-vehicles-us

Affected vehicles in the US:


Real world testing:

Vehicle A = 2012 Jetta SportWagen TDI (LNT), Vehicle B = 2013 Passat TDI (SCR), Vehicle C = BMW X5 xDrive35d (SCR)

EPA federal emissions test procedure:


Graph of NOx emissions for various vehicles, compiled by bhtooefr:


There is lots of good information in all of the links above. It is highly recommended reading if you want to know the facts.

Moderator note: any user posting political garbage in this thread will immediately receive a one month ban! Keep it clean, keep it factual, and keep it friendly!

The Animas River spill in Colorado is a banned subject; discussing it will get you a one week ban.
 
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Lightflyer1

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Round Rock, Texas
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2015 Beetle tdi dsg
Volkswagen Is Ordered to Recall Nearly 500,000 Vehicles Over Emissions Software

http://www.nytimes.com/2015/09/19/b...00-vehicles-over-emissions-software.html?_r=0

"WASHINGTON — The Obama administration on Friday ordered Volkswagen to recall nearly a half million cars from the road, saying the German automaker used software intentionally designed to circumvent environmental standards for reducing smog.

The Environmental Protection Agency issued the company a notice of violation and accused the company of breaking the law by installing software known as a “defeat device” in 4-cylinder Volkswagen and Audi vehicles from model years 2009-15. The device is programmed to detect when the car is undergoing official emissions testing, and to only turn on full emissions control systems during that testing. Those controls are turned off during normal driving situations, when the vehicles pollute far more heavily than reported by the manufacturer, the E.P.A. said."

"The software was designed to conceal the cars’ emissions of the pollutant nitrogen oxide, which contributes to the creation of ozone and smog. The pollutants are linked to a range of health problems, including asthma attacks and other respiratory diseases.

The state of California has issued a separate notice of violation to the company. California, the E.P.A. and the Justice Department are working together on an investigation of the allegations.

The allegations cover roughly 482,000 diesel passenger cars sold in the United States since 2009.

Affected diesel models include the Volkswagen Jetta (model years 2009-15), Volkswagen Beetle (model years 2009–15), Audi A3 (model years 2009–15), Volkswagen Golf (model years 2009–15) and Volkswagen Passat (model years 2014-15)."
 

fijipaul

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Location
Toronto,ON
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2000 golf silver
500,000 VW recalled for emissions software

I guess we know why some 2016 models have been held up in port. Guessing a big fine coming down thhttp://www.nytimes.com/2015/09/19/business/volkswagen-is-ordered-to-recall-nearly-500000-vehicles-over-emissions-software.html?hp&action=click&pgtype=Homepage&module=first-column-region&region=top-news&WT.nav=top-news&mtrref=www.nytimes.com&gwh=AECB991B4FB8BB677D690EB612D9E17E&gwt=pay&assetType=nyt_nowe line.
 

TDIpilot4u

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Will be interesting to see how they deal with a recall. If NOx emissions are 10-40 times higher, seems SCR would be needed to fix the problem. I'm just guessing...
 

meerschm

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2009 Jetta wagon DSG 08/08 205k buyback 1/8/18; replaced with 2017 Golf Wagon 4mo 1.8l CXBB
Or this explains the tendency for TDIs to get more MPG than the EPA estimates.

(if you turn off (or reduce) the use of fuel as an NOX reactant, mpg goes up)
 

454k30

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California, MD
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2002 Jetta
Wow! I'm just reading this news now. Forgive my ignorance (I live in an non-emissions area), how would a car "know" it was being tested?
 

GraniteRooster

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Upper Valley NH
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'12 JSW 6MT
EPA Accuses VW of Cheating Emissions

This is epic - almost as good as intercoolers that load up with condensation. Go VW :rolleyes:

"The Environmental Protection Agency issued the company a notice of violation and accused the company of breaking the law by installing software known as a “defeat device” in 4-cylinder Volkswagen and Audi vehicles from model years 2009-15. The device is programmed to detect when the car is undergoing official emissions testing, and to only turn on full emissions control systems during that testing. Those controls are turned off during normal driving situations, when the vehicles pollute far more heavily than reported by the manufacturer, the E.P.A. said."

...

"The allegations cover roughly 482,000 diesel passenger cars sold in the United States since 2009. Affected diesel models include the 2009-15 Volkswagen Jetta, 2009–15 Beetle, 2009–15 Golf, 2014-15 Passat and 2009-15 Audi A3."

http://www.nytimes.com/2015/09/19/b...00-vehicles-over-emissions-software.html?_r=0
 

VeeDubTDI

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Wow! I'm just reading this news now. Forgive my ignorance (I live in an non-emissions area), how would a car "know" it was being tested?
Data from wheel speed sensors (and other things), most likely. If all four wheels aren't behaving similarly, the vehicle knows that it is on a dyno and most likely being tested.
 

454k30

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@VeeDubTDI, I didn't realize smog tests were so involved! The last time I had to deal with one it was just a sniffer in the tailpipe and a visual inspection under the hood. Sounds like things have gotten a lot more involved (expensive).
 

VeeDubTDI

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I think the issue is with manufacturer dyno testing when certifying the vehicles for EPA compliance, as opposed to the periodic (and not very thorough) annual tests done by some localities.
 

crazyrunner33

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jhinsc

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I just read this on CNBC. Isn't NOX supposed to be reduced by the urea-injection system, or am I missing something? :eek: I wonder if that mean more Ad-Blue fluid will be used after a "software" update? Kind of makes you wonder what VW was thinking when programing the pollution control software and how they think it was okay to do it. I'll be mad if my mileage is affected after the recall. If VW doesn't handle this properly, they will lose my future business.....:mad:

Just read the link in post #1 and saw a reference to particulate matter too. Great, so now the DPF will likely need MORE regen cycles than before too?
 
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leicaman

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Depending upon where you live, you could probably just not have the update done and then your car would be none the wiser.
 

JimNap

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Location
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2014 VW Passat TDI SE
VW investigated by EPA for alleged emission software cheats on TDI models

www.freep.com/story/money/cars/2015/09/18/epa-volkswagen-used-software-skirt-emissions-rules/72399372/

The core of the matter, EPA alleges VW used software to detect when the car was being placed in an emission test environment vs. normal operating conditions. only then did the car fully engage all emissions controls allowing the vehicle to pass. supposedly under normal load, the cars emitted 40x the legal CA limit.

not good, VW - not good.
 

bhtooefr

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Also, the test cycles use specific maps that are known to the manufacturers, so they could use heuristics to know when it's on a test cycle map, and switch, even if the vehicle's on a 4-wheel dyno.

However, all of the affected vehicles are front wheel drive, so...
 

owr084

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Location
Northern Virginia (NoVA)
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Passat GLS, 2005, Stonehenge Gray
This brings up a lot of questions. What is the fix? An ECU reflash? That is going to screw a lot of people with a tune. Because it is an emissions violation, I am sure the locales that do the testing will be looking for the official VW flash (when it comes out), so the tuners will need to spoof that somehow.

Just how does the way VW circumvented the testing process impact the emissions equipment? If the equipment was designed to deal with a car meeting the EPA spec, yet on the road has to deal with a "dirtier" spec, I could see the potential for a class action lawsuit.
 

VeeDubTDI

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I just read this on CNBC. Isn't NOX supposed to be reduced by the urea-injection system, or am I missing something? :eek: I wonder if that mean more Ad-Blue fluid will be used after a "software" update? Kind of makes you wonder what VW was thinking when programing the pollution control software and how they think it was okay to do it. I'll be mad if my mileage is affected after the recall. If VW doesn't handle this properly, they will lose my future business.....:mad:

Just read the link in post #1 and saw a reference to particulate matter too. Great, so now the DPF will likely need MORE regen cycles than before too?
Fuel consumption on recalled vehicles will likely go up some. Increased regeneration activity would be marginal, as the increase in fuel consumption isn't great enough to make a substantial increase in soot production.
 

jhinsc

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2014 Passat TDI SEL Premium
Depending upon where you live, you could probably just not have the update done and then your car would be none the wiser.
If you have your car serviced at the dealer like I do, you can't avoid the 'update'. My car is fairly new and I have a service package, plus I don't trust anyone else to know what the proper oil to use, etc. Even in non-CARB states, dealer's will be instructed NOT to let cars leave without applying the update, even if you take in for just an oil change or other warranty work. This violation, if true, is very serious - can't wait to see the fine issued to VW by the EPA. Also wonder if VW will come up with any incentives to owners too. Curious that the 2015 Passat TDI is affected with the new TDI motor vs the 2014's, and why the 2012's and 2013's are not affected?
 

bhtooefr

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It also depends on where they add fuel consumption - if they add it to the NOx and H2S traps, soot won't go up at all. If they add it by increasing EGR activity, on the other hand...

(And, if they increase EGR activity, be prepared for intercooler icing to get worse on CBEA and CJAA...)
 
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JimNap

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SE Michigan
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From the Detroit Free Press (might be verbatim as NY Times, etc - all likely from Associated Press)

http://www.freep.com/story/money/ca...used-software-skirt-emissions-rules/72399372/


From the article:

VW may be liable for civil penalties of up to $37,500 per vehicle found to be violating the standard, or potentially more than $18 billion.


Well that's nice, so basically VW may need to cough up the value of my car (plus some) to the federal government for a slap on the hand, meanwhile what will owners get?

"Oh, sorry about that - our bad. Here's a free software update, a coupon for a free oil change and DEF refill (which we'll screw up), a free hat and our very sincere apologies that we'll NEVER do that again".

Schmucks.
 
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Samcar222

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2010 Salsa Red JSW TDI
$18b fine for Nox into the air; multiple deaths from GM airbag incompetence and they get a $1b wrist slap? American favoritism much?

Interesting to see how this pans out. Is the emissions tsb from 2 months ago related?

I'll take a $5000 credit to a 17 SEL TDI GSW.... then I'll make the emission bits more likely to fall off on my 2010 cjaa jsw ;) *off road use only of course
 
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VeeDubTDI

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$18b fine for Nox into the air; multiple deaths from GM airbag incompetence and they get a $1b wrist slap? American favoritism much?

Interesting to see how this pans out. Is the emissions tsb from 2 months ago related?
The potential fines are maximum penalties. The real fines will likely be substantially less.
 

DeliveryValve

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Western US
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Passat GLS Wagon
Data from wheel speed sensors (and other things), most likely. If all four wheels aren't behaving similarly, the vehicle knows that it is on a dyno and most likely being tested.
In California, they do not do a dyno test in diesels. Just a OBD2 diagnostic scan and snap test (accelerator exhaust smoke test).
It has to be a programming flag when the OBD2 scan is initiated.


.
 
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