Volkswagen's Clean Air Act violations on 2009+ TDIs spark huge recall, investigations

[rick_deckard]

So they'll buy back dealer's TDIs but not the consumers? Awesome...

I'm hoping this will incentivize dealers to buy back TDIs knowing they are guaranteed a sale - either by private party or to VW itself.

 

[JBell]

So they'll buy back dealer's TDIs but not the consumers? Awesome...

From a business perspective, what would you do with unsold inventory? Sell them and expose yourself to more litigation or recall them back?

You clearly do not understand why.

 

[mjLyco]

I'm hoping this will incentivize dealers to buy back TDIs knowing they are guaranteed a sale - either by private party or to VW itself.

I doubt that. My guess is this deal probably only counts toward vehicles in inventory before today's announcement. VW has to cover themselves from a dealer scooping up a bunch of TDIs at auction or junkyards.

It would be nice if they bought our cars back at that "guaranteed" price though.

 

[mjLyco]

From a business perspective, what would you do with unsold inventory? Sell them and expose yourself to more litigation or recall them back?
You clearly do not understand why.

At this point, the scandal is already out so it's buyer beware. Filing a suit for a TDI purchased today has no legs.

They're doing it so they don't have a whole lot of dealers closing their doors and suing them for lost profits etc.

I understand the business rational. I'm annoyed because it doesn't help me in any way. I had a TDI on order and own a TDI. (I was trying to get out of a 2 door and into a 4 door in anticipation of my first child)

 

[czeetah]

Absolutely. Here's the sad part about it. When I was in the Army anytime I heard someone say that they were from Oregon, I asked them where and they almost always said "Portland" regardless of where they were from. One guy actually lived in Medford which is almost 300 miles away. ....

Happens to everyone everywhere. Say New York they think NYC.

I live in the mountain in North Carolina and the one I get all the time is "how do you deal with those hurricanes?" and I have to explain the coast/ocean is 400 miles away and Tennessee is an hour away.

If a hurricane makes it here then holy cow.

 

[rick_deckard]

I doubt that. My guess is this deal probably only counts toward vehicles in inventory before today's announcement. VW has to cover themselves from a dealer scooping up a bunch of TDIs at auction or junkyards.
It would be nice if they bought our cars back at that "guaranteed" price though.

I absolutely agree but I'll just continue to wait as patiently as possible. Thought this story was a glimmer of hope for those wanting to trade their affected vehicle in.

 

[barshnik]

I don't know why people want to argue that they're owed something. I like to think of this as a national issue vs. personal.
1) What's the intent behind the EPA? That's a big problem. They should be creating processes that protect us from poor business ethics.
2) Who is affected? How can this be mitigated?
3) Arguing personal finances are a tricky business. Good luck in those arguments because you'll end up with caveats and circumstantial explanations that'll take hundreds of pages.
What bothers me the most... More and more I see a common thread among American debates that centers on whether or not we're victims. Why are we so focused on victim labels and what we're owed? I'm tired of this.
The EPA hasn't been looking out for the best interest of our citizens. Business ethics are truly at an all time low in an effort to keep up with EPA regulations that move us ever so closer to utopia. hrmmm. What percentage of consumer products goes towards regulations and standards? The other extreme is China and deregulation. All our car companies are making money hand over fist in that country but not so far back required a "bailout" in our own economy.
I think this is the ugly side to government regulation and I'm not so sure our citizens are approaching this the right way. I'd hate to see billions or trillions in fines or handicaps just get burned up in the government furnace. Money fuels bureaucracy. We all know that. But I'd rather that money go towards innovation or something substantial.
What if government fines were more to do with community service? infrastructure? parks and rec? funding college tuition programs?...I dunno...
Just tired of everybody arguing that they deserve a payout. Whatever happened to the idea that we contribute to the success of our people and communities? We're always trying to burn each other. Maybe these fines should be more constructive.

Immediately prior to 'dieselgate' breaking, I had negotiated the purchase of a new Chevy Volt, using my 2013 Passat TDI as a trade in. immediately after dieselgate, the Chevy dealer rightly refused to take the TDI as a trade in. Since then, I've been turned down by the 3 other dealers I've approached about taking the TDI as a trade in on a new hybrid vehicle. So, are you saying that I have not been harmed by VW? It appears that the Passat is essentially worthless as a trade in, and trying to sell it privately is nearly impossible as well.

 

[Rico567]

Happens to everyone everywhere. Say New York they think NYC.
I live in the mountain in North Carolina and the one I get all the time is "how do you deal with those hurricanes?" and I have to explain the coast/ocean is 400 miles away and Tennessee is an hour away.
If a hurricane makes it here then holy cow.

It's always that way when the metropolis is large enough. In several different countries, I've only gotten a blank expression when I say we live in Illinois, but their faces lit right up if I say we live 150 miles from Chicago.

 

[MrSprdSheet]

 

[dmarsingill]

Immediately prior to 'dieselgate' breaking, I had negotiated the purchase of a new Chevy Volt, using my 2013 Passat TDI as a trade in. immediately after dieselgate, the Chevy dealer rightly refused to take the TDI as a trade in. Since then, I've been turned down by the 3 other dealers I've approached about taking the TDI as a trade in on a new hybrid vehicle. So, are you saying that I have not been harmed by VW? It appears that the Passat is essentially worthless as a trade in, and trying to sell it privately is nearly impossible as well.

Why trade in a 2 yr old car? You would have taken a beating on depreciation regardless of the scandal. Have you tried listing it privately? It would sell like hotcakes around here if the price is right.

I think you need to lease if you only plan on keeping it for 2 yrs.

Donald

 

[Cincy_TDI]

I like reading how it seems everyone's dealers keep contacting them and emailing them. Have not heard word one from my dealer or VW..

 

[csl223]

I like reading how it seems everyone's dealers keep contacting them and emailing them. Have not heard word one from my dealer or VW..

I got a letter in the mail from a local dealer yesterday, offering me a horribly low trade-in guarantee and a $500 owner loyalty bonus (what the?!)... that and they were willing to take 1000 off any 2015 model! Whoopee!

I'm thinking it was just a sick halloween joke maybe?

 

[bubbagumpshrimp]

Why trade in a 2 yr old car? You would have taken a beating on depreciation regardless of the scandal. Have you tried listing it privately? It would sell like hotcakes around here if the price is right.

I think you need to lease if you only plan on keeping it for 2 yrs.

Donald

Keep in mind that the depreciation that has hit since this scandal broke (13%+ in many cases) is enough to make the difference between breaking even on a trade-in and taking a bath.

As for why someone would want to trade in a two year old car...people's needs change. I.e. I was in the market for a mid-size car to "step up" (size wise) from my Jetta.

As for private sale...I just decided I didn't want to screw with it. I suspect that's why most people do trade-ins. Unless you price a car for private sale pretty aggressively, you're going to have to deal with a lot of tire kickers. Just my $.02...

 

[Kylarean]

I like reading how it seems everyone's dealers keep contacting them and emailing them. Have not heard word one from my dealer or VW..

Mine sent a little card (front saying "Forever Remembered, forever temporarily disappointed VW TDI Clean Diesel (1989-2015)")

Inside it had things like:

Full Trade-in Value prior to Sept 18th, 2015 if I want to go to a gasoline fuel VW.
Brand Switch offer with the same trade-in value to the dealers other brands (Volvo, Kia, Subaru, or Land Rover)
Used Car offer with same trade-in value towards any pre-owned vehicle on any of their lots

And had a little stylized blurb of "Our thoughts and oil changes are with you during this difficult time. We will always cherish the beautiful memories, the great gas mileage & performance"

I had a laugh. Not planning on selling or trading in my car.

 

[sbt007]

Keep in mind that the depreciation that has hit since this scandal broke (13%+ in many cases) is enough to make the difference between breaking even on a trade-in and taking a bath.
As for why someone would want to trade in a two year old car...people's needs change. I.e. I was in the market for a mid-size car to "step up" (size wise) from my Jetta.
As for private sale...I just decided I didn't want to screw with it. I suspect that's why most people do trade-ins. Unless you price a car for private sale pretty aggressively, you're going to have to deal with a lot of tire kickers. Just my $.02...

+1

I don't understand the need to defend VW for this. I mean, I like my TDI. But whether someone wants to sell after 6 months, 2 years whatever, why question their motives. Maybe they need a SUV now. If someone would have been able to trade in before the news broke, and cannot now, it is an inconvenience and a loss. Don't sell your car, sell it privately, list it in this forum are not useful answers.

 

[Rudyjo]

I'm hoping this will incentivize dealers to buy back TDIs knowing they are guaranteed a sale - either by private party or to VW itself.

I can see where dealers would be happy to get this news.
I looked at used cars for sale on the internet for the local Medford, Oregon VW dealer, at this time, they have 15 late model TDI's for sale.
At the time I bought mine on the last day of August, they had one used TDI for sale. I don't know what they are giving as trade in value, but it looks like they are taking them in on trade.

 

[bubbagumpshrimp]

+1
I don't understand the need to defend VW for this. I mean, I like my TDI. But whether someone wants to sell after 6 months, 2 years whatever, why question their motives. Maybe they need a SUV now. If someone would have been able to trade in before the news broke, and cannot now, it is an inconvenience and a loss. Don't sell your car, sell it privately, list it in this forum are not useful answers.

That would be the VW cult following. I've owned four VW's and even I don't get some of the VW Kool-Aid drinkers I've seen around here. Hell...VW has all but come out and said "we (as a company) intentionally hoodwinked you"...and people still make excuses for them, lol.

 

[Jack-DE]

That would be the VW cult following. I've owned four VW's and even I don't get some of the VW Kool-Aid drinkers I've seen around here. Hell...VW has all but come out and said "we (as a company) intentionally hoodwinked you"...and people still make excuses for them, lol.

Same here. I am on my 4th VW but in no way can I defend a software cheat. Bashing the EPA for too low limits does not make sense when a small passenger car puts out the same amount of NOx as a modern 18-wheeler.

 

[av8or]

I rely on the internet and the NY Times for truth and integrity.

As Larry the Cable Guy sez: "I don't care who ya are.... that there is funny"

Good one jimbo!

 

[fredthe]

Hell...VW has all but come out and said "we (as a company) intentionally hoodwinked you"...and people still make excuses for them, lol.

As a company they have admitted to there being "cheat" software. I am, however, waiting for the results of the on-going investigations as to just how widely known within the corporation the cheating was. I'm not making excuses for them, but I'm not throwing them under the bus either. Until then I will happily continue to drive my TDIs, there's nothing pushing me into a rush judgment.

 

[bubbagumpshrimp]

As a company they have admitted to there being "cheat" software. I am, however, waiting for the results of the on-going investigations as to just how widely known within the corporation the cheating was. I'm not making excuses for them, but I'm not throwing them under the bus either. Until then I will happily continue to drive my TDIs, there's nothing pushing me into a rush judgment.

Oh, I have no doubt that they'll find a dozen or so people (the current reports) to throw under the bus. Beyond that...I can't say that I'm expecting much, but we'll see...

Yup. I've got no interest in giving mine away.

 

[TDIintheLOU]

What a kick in the nads.

http://www.autonews.com/article/20151030/RETAIL07/151039985/vw-offers-dealers-a-price-guarantee-on-used-diesel-vehicles
For those interested...

I feel like Clark Grizwald in Christmas when he finds out he got got enrolled in the jelly of the month club. If that's not the biggest bag over the head..........

Thanks VW I feel like a valued customer. I just found out yesterday my TDI,s value has dropped by 7600$. What a joke.

 

[gmcjetpilot]

+1 I don't understand the need to defend VW for this.

I don't see any defense, just refuting some of the hyperbolae with facts.

I mean, I like my TDI. But whether someone wants to sell after 6 months, 2 years whatever, why question their motives. Maybe they need a SUV now.

I did not see questioning of MOTIVE one may sell their fairly new car. However I will say IF YOU sell only out of fear or panic over pending recall, that's unfortunate and not wise. In a year or two values will likely rebound from their current small "perceived" market value dip. The deprecation rate will level off and normalize. These are valuable LEGAL efficient fun to drive cars. There is a market for that, always will be.

If someone would have been able to trade in before the news broke, and cannot now, it is an inconvenience and a loss.

Of course you can trade in, but you will get about $1000 less. If you must trade-in that is the reality. However you ALWAYS get screwed with trade-in. Current values (not real value) are lower because dealers feel it may take longer to sell. Other's are opportunist and will play on peoples fear for their profit. Study shows no spike in TDI sales, or glut of used TDI's. VW TDI owners are holding onto their cars. These TDI's are still quite valuable and legal to drive (per EPA).

Don't sell your car, sell it privately, list it in this forum are not useful answers.

WHAT? Ha ha. That is great advice. Private sale will minimize the loss, especially if trade-in offers are bad. Inconvenient? Ok agree. No one is saying you have to be happy about it. These cars have REAL value and a market, albeit may be soft at present; you can get a fair price, if you make some effort and can wait.

The KBB on my TDI, 2010 JSW DSG, very good condition, about half of what I paid, which is about right. Most cars, even ones with good resale value, sell for half of new about 5 years in. The real value of TDI's was always down the road, at +10 years.... BUT the real value is driving them as an owner for a long time getting great MPG. I don't plan on selling for 7-10 years or longer. The car is far more valuable to me.

Fact, steep depreciation affects almost all cars the first 5 years, especially first 2 or 3 years (especially German cars). Some cars lose a little less, some more. That is why I always bought used 4-5 year old Acura Legends, about 1/3 cost of new but still a great cars. When real estate or stocks go down you "lose" money on paper. However they typically go back-up. VW will never appreciate like real estate or stocks, but the loss of money on paper is only REAL if you sell. If you can avoid selling, you are best to do so, at least in the next year or two. This is not advice or defense of VW, only fact.

I am not discounting your right or anyone's right to feel screwed.... From where I sit it's not that bad. Ice maker in my house that I rent out broke. It ruined the wood floor. Cost me a lot to fix..... never have wood floor in kitchen again.

 

[PlaneCrazy]

I got lucky and traded in my '11 lemon two and a half weeks before the scandal. If I had waited, for sure I'd be one of the people screaming bloody murder. On the other hand we have/had no plans to trade in my wife's as it's been flawless so far. So we're not in any kind of panic or pity party over it. I guess I just got lucky and landed on the good side of the scandal... we are taking a "wait and see" attitude with my wife's wagon. At least I am. Hers is "do NOT touch my car, it runs just fine the way it is!"

 

[autdi]

Oh, I have no doubt that they'll find a dozen or so people (the current reports) to throw under the bus. Beyond that...I can't say that I'm expecting much, but we'll see...

Yup. I've got no interest in giving mine away.

The cool thing about version control systems, they know who changed what lines, and when the change happened. It is incredibly easy to determine who changed the relevant lines. Combine with good software practice that you make functions out of the smallest logical tasks, and you have lots of files, so someone could work years, and never see anything related to the cheat, others, it would be nearly impossible to claim the didn't know about it, if they were working in the small files that contained the cheat.

 

[bubbagumpshrimp]

The cool thing about version control systems, they know who changed what lines, and when the change happened. It is incredibly easy to determine who changed the relevant lines. Combine with good software practice that you make functions out of the smallest logical tasks, and you have lots of files, so someone could work years, and never see anything related to the cheat, others, it would be nearly impossible to claim the didn't know about it, if they were working in the small files that contained the cheat.

That's my point. The people that did the programming are toast. The people at the top of the food chain that authorized the programming will not be going down for this. i.e. The former CEO. There's no way that he didn't know about this when two of his handpicked people were already suspended over it.

 

[romad]

Happens to everyone everywhere. Say New York they think NYC.

I live in the mountain in North Carolina and the one I get all the time is "how do you deal with those hurricanes?" and I have to explain the coast/ocean is 400 miles away and Tennessee is an hour away.

If a hurricane makes it here then holy cow.

And say New York City and they think Manhattan (forgetting Brooklyn, The Bronx, Queens, and Staten Island).

 

[Lightflyer1]

Same here. I am on my 4th VW but in no way can I defend a software cheat. Bashing the EPA for too low limits does not make sense when a small passenger car puts out the same amount of NOx as a modern 18-wheeler.

No one I have seen is defending VW for the lie or cheating the EPA regs. They have been defending when people like you come here and make unsubstantiated claims like "when a small passenger car puts out the same amount of NOx as a modern 18-wheeler" which isn't even close to true in any way. There are only two things true for VW right now.

1. Someone or some people installed a software cheat device for emissions.
2. Someone or some people lied about it.

Bashing the EPA is a another topic entirely. They may or may not deserve it.

 

[romad]

That would be the VW cult following. I've owned four VW's and even I don't get some of the VW Kool-Aid drinkers I've seen around here. Hell...VW has all but come out and said "we (as a company) intentionally hoodwinked you"...and people still make excuses for them, lol.

Actually they only "hoodwinked" the EPA and CARB. While I don't agree with the cheating, I like the fact they made fools of the government! This thread is very entertaining.

 

[turbobrick240]

I feel like Clark Grizwald in Christmas when he finds out he got got enrolled in the jelly of the month club. If that's not the biggest bag over the head..........
Thanks VW I feel like a valued customer. I just found out yesterday my TDI,s value has dropped by 7600$. What a joke.

That's what happens to new cars over time. It's called depreciation.