2015 Golf TDI long crank first start of the day

sportwagen3

Veteran Member
Joined
Jul 7, 2017
Location
MD
TDI
2015 Golf Sportwagen TDI SE
This all is really interesting. Recently, the longer crank has been occuring more frequently with my car even though temperatures are between upper 50s to 70s. I've always ignored it based on KermaTDI's post, but now that it could be an issue, has anyone tried to take it to a dealer under CPO warranty?
 

turbobrick240

Top Post Dawg
Joined
Nov 18, 2014
Location
maine
TDI
2011 vw golf tdi(gone to greener pastures), 2001 ford f250 powerstroke
His twin brother in post #45 isn't half bad either.
 

thundershorts

Top Post Dawg
Joined
Jul 15, 2010
Location
west chester pa
TDI
2015 passat tdi sel premium 2015 golf s tdi gls tdi b5.5, 2002 eurovan,Peugeot 505 td,Citroen cx25 prestige
I also had occasional long crank instances, 5-6 seconds until I changed my in tank lift pump to the newer version. Its now been year and a half since having last one.
 

GreenLantern_TDI

Veteran Member
Joined
Feb 27, 2014
Location
Iowa
TDI
2015 GOLF SEL
Last 3 days all with frost heater plugged in 3 hours prior ive had the long crank to start. Odd cause it was usually only once in a while and now daily.
 

thundershorts

Top Post Dawg
Joined
Jul 15, 2010
Location
west chester pa
TDI
2015 passat tdi sel premium 2015 golf s tdi gls tdi b5.5, 2002 eurovan,Peugeot 505 td,Citroen cx25 prestige
If you are getting any low rail pressure codes, its highly likely the lift pump is culprit. New lift pump is under 300 list price, VW won't replace it till it totally fails so you have a choice; keep driving till you get stuck somewhere; replace it so you have reliability and no worry. If you decide to replace it, you will find the new one is much quieter.
 

georgero

New member
Joined
Apr 30, 2019
Location
Romania
TDI
2014 Octavia 3
Hello, i have the same problem but mine varies with temperature or humidity. After a 6+ hour "sleep" the car cranks over 6-12 times before starting, sometimes having a hiccup after 4-5 cranks. If temperature is below 18C it starts perfectly (even way below 0). I also noticed after rain or in high humidity, even with temperature below 18 ish, it does the same thing.
No errors found, i scanned the car after every long crank. I asked 1000 garages, no one knows why. Only one suggested a sensor that gives absolute values that may be faulty without throwing a code. (crankshaft or camshaft i think he said).
 

ProfBrown

Veteran Member
Joined
Jan 16, 2019
Location
So Cal
TDI
2015 GSW SE DSG
When this puppy reaches the time belt interval I’ll likely have them swap this part under warranty as well. Or at least have them try to do it under warranty.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
 

dubStrom

Veteran Member
Joined
Aug 6, 2007
Location
Kansas City Missouri
TDI
2003 A4 Jetta (sold), 2010 JSW (sold), 2013 Passat 6MT traded for 2014 JSW with 6MT-TOTALED in November 2016, 2003 ALH 5MT conversion (sold), NEW 2015 GSW/DSG and an '07 Ram 6.7L Cummins Turbo Diesel quad-cab Laramie 4x4 p'up
Don't tell me I'm the only one having this issue lol
Long crank and jumpy start happens if you forget to prime the fuel pump with the lift pump using VAGCOM after fuel filter change. This is hard on the HPFP, so make sure you prime to eliminate the air before attempting to start.

Maybe this was not what happened here, but with a diesel, as long as the glow plug light switches off just before you try to start, fuel (and compression) is all you need. Hence the comments about the lift pump above. So this is why my GSW kept running happily when the battery was essentially dead to the world this week. No coil to charge, or spark plug dependent ignition...At the same time, the DSG was confused (requires 12V with some amps)!
 

dubStrom

Veteran Member
Joined
Aug 6, 2007
Location
Kansas City Missouri
TDI
2003 A4 Jetta (sold), 2010 JSW (sold), 2013 Passat 6MT traded for 2014 JSW with 6MT-TOTALED in November 2016, 2003 ALH 5MT conversion (sold), NEW 2015 GSW/DSG and an '07 Ram 6.7L Cummins Turbo Diesel quad-cab Laramie 4x4 p'up
I had this issue after putting in a cheaper fuel filter and getting the Stage 2 fix... So I couldn't tell what caused it.
The dealer mentioned the battery was on the way out. I put in a new battery and the car hasn't done it except for the first crank.
Theres a crazy sensor suite on new cars. Need to feed it plenty of angry pixies.
Did you do the lift pump test a few cycles before attempting to start it? Air in the fuel filter cannister can be purged by doing this "test". This should always be done before turning the HPFP!
 

15TDICommuter

Well-known member
Joined
Jan 6, 2019
Location
South Florida
TDI
2015 GSW
Long crank and jumpy start happens if you forget to prime the fuel pump with the lift pump using VAGCOM after fuel filter change. This is hard on the HPFP, so make sure you prime to eliminate the air before attempting to start.

The subject of this post is for the long crank owners are encountering when jumping into the car for the first time and not after completing some type of maintenance. Example - car parked in the garage, Monday morning commute to work.... jump in car to drive to work and experience the long crank issue.

Not saying your comment is wrong but its not the same long crank issue, car is left untouched and cold. It looks like the video in the other comments has found a possible solution - mentioned in #45, #66 and again in #93.

Clean oil and the updated part may be the key with this issue. Trying to get my dealership to cover prior to CPO warranty end.
 

thundershorts

Top Post Dawg
Joined
Jul 15, 2010
Location
west chester pa
TDI
2015 passat tdi sel premium 2015 golf s tdi gls tdi b5.5, 2002 eurovan,Peugeot 505 td,Citroen cx25 prestige
At time I changed my lift pump 1 1/2 years ago, the newer lift pump was a scarce item, only a couple in the whole USA. Since, I've not had even one long crank instance. My car was built in May 2015, I bought it Aug 2017. It had whatever fuel factory put in it which was so putrid the car felt like it had no boost at all. After a few months of intermittent long crank starts, the pump gave out a screech, letting me know it was not healthy. VW would not replace it because it had not completely failed. Any debris from it would have been picked up by the fuel filter so I changed that at same time. If the long cranking doesn't bother you and you don't care if you get stuck somewhere, you can ignore this post.
 

mopower

Veteran Member
Joined
Mar 22, 2007
Location
Midwest vandweller
TDI
15 GSW
My GSW has had a few 'cool' morning starts where it cranks longer than normal, I'm following this thread now. Like all the others, when it is cold out it starts normally, and when its been run in the last few hours it also starts normally.
 

Gonesouth

New member
Joined
May 14, 2019
Location
South Coast
TDI
2.0 TDI 150
Please excuse this post from a newbie, but I've had this problem on my 2015 2.0TDI 150 Jetta.

Symptoms: extended cranking on first start of the day (not necessarily a cold day), additionally sometimes stutters when firing up, and sometimes "farts" immediately after firing up.

Only once created a "pending" P0341 fault code which led me to the "Diagnose Dan VVT valve" video on YouTube and other forums etc.


Was going to throw it back at dealer but checked 12v battery first as thought it may not have grunt to turn over the engine correctly.

Sure enough, battery low on overall charge and only produced 12.2v max after resting overnight. Using a smart charger to replenish battery had no effect. Incidentally, my car has auto stop/start, and the coasting function which increases alternator output.

Bought a new battery (AGM type) and not had the problem in over two weeks.

Original battery was the standard 68Ah Varta which is also found in my Audi A3.

Hope this helps at least some owners to find a fix. Incidentally this issue can be found on Skoda forums too - battery fix was mentioned.

EDIT:
There's an Audi video on Youtube which demonstrates how the VVT mechanism operates in the EA288 1.6 and 2.0 TDI engines.

See here: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=M-4xbGeIr58

Think its about 3mins in.
 
Last edited:

stormy

Active member
Joined
Jul 21, 2012
Location
Germany
TDI
Seat Leon 5F ST DSG 2.0TDI EA288
I used to have this issue with my 2.0TDI 184HP (live in germany) CUNA aswell.
Got a software update from the dealer which did not help. If anything it seemed to make it worse.
Since turning the key and waiting until all (!) check lights that come on in the dash go off, before actually starting the engine, the car has started right away. 3 weeks so far...
 

andymac

Member
Joined
Aug 3, 2015
Location
California
TDI
2015 Golf TDi
Check out "Diagnose Dan" on youtube. He seems to have fixed a similar issue on a GTD - determined it was the Variable Valve Timing (vvt). It appears to be a redesigned replacement part - worth seeing if a VW recall may appy.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DXvHdmq0reA
Nice find! I think this really likely the issue. It would account for it happening intermittently and varying crank times depending on if the valve stuck or not. Maybe it's possible the valve could stick halfway open allowing for some of the oil to come out. I'll have to check to see which one I have, should be able to tell visually. Now the question is how we get the updated part. Should be a warranty issue though I'm not sure I trust the dealer to do the work.
I had the same problem and wanted the stealership to replace the VVT Oil Control valve too since the part numbers were superseded, but they didn't want to do this until I paid for the diagnosis they do fist. No problem, I paid. The next morning (since I told them to check the crank time in the am) they said my battery was dead. I had the battery tested at an independent shop and it was tested good. I guess they didn't test it properly because after replacing the factory battery with a newer higher CCA battery the issue was gone. The factory battery is much smaller and lower CCA Rating than what is capable of being installed, so I used all the space provided in the battery tray and installed the highest CCA rated battery I could get from Costco. Issue gone for me.
It definitely could be the oil control valve otherwise, for others having the same issue. Definitely check your battery first however, even if it's not that old. Sometimes batteries go bad early for various reasons. Battery is cheaper and easier to test first.
 

ProfBrown

Veteran Member
Joined
Jan 16, 2019
Location
So Cal
TDI
2015 GSW SE DSG
Which battery size did you get from Costco that fit the battery tray?


Yeah I saw a write up on this before too, but it was over my head as far as write up goes. I’d like to know so that when my battery does go, I can just get the next size up no issue. Just the battery? Or was there any extra mounting hardware? I am far from someone good with electric stuff lol, I am color blind so generally avoid anything other than plug and play stuff.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
 

thundershorts

Top Post Dawg
Joined
Jul 15, 2010
Location
west chester pa
TDI
2015 passat tdi sel premium 2015 golf s tdi gls tdi b5.5, 2002 eurovan,Peugeot 505 td,Citroen cx25 prestige
Batteries are built according to what price they are going to be sold for. The oe battery is relatively high quality as many have lasted 5 years or longer. A quality battery of same size is all most of us need unless we live in extreme climate, Cheap batteries are really no bargain.
 

andymac

Member
Joined
Aug 3, 2015
Location
California
TDI
2015 Golf TDi
I'll check when I get home tonight on the size, but it was over ~700 CCA. The OEM battery didn't take up the full size of the battery tray, so I suppose they installed a battery with just enough power to start the vehicle. They knew what they're doing and engineered the correct battery I'm sure, but more cranking amps are never a bad idea. A more robust battery will give you more wiggle room if you leave the lights on too long or work on your car with the ignition on longer than usual etc.

I also just read about the ECU coding for the battery on another forum. Apparently the factory batteries made in Germany are "better" because they have very detailed specification/build information on them from the battery manufactures (they probably use better quality materials too, because: Germany). VW is also able to tune the vehicle's charging system ("BMS", battery management system, I suppose) for the specific battery in the ECU. This might lend credence as to why they last as long as they do, the charging system is tuned for a specific battery. When you swap your battery, especially with a different amp rating, the system will work fine, but it won't be as efficient as it was with a known battery rating, possibly reducing the max lifespan of the battery.

The amount batteries are charged nearing the full capacity mark is important apparently (State of Charge "SOC"). Consistent under or over charging the battery is possible in these more modern cars, so maximum life is achieved when the vehicle knows the battery amp rating etc. The system observes the overall energy output of the battery (health) and instructs ancillary systems to shed loads when necessary. Interesting.

I'll have to try coding my battery when my VCDS comes in the mail. ;-)

Central California if anyone needs VCDS Services, I need to pay off this bill... :-D

Please excuse this post from a newbie, but I've had this problem on my 2015 2.0TDI 150 Jetta.

Symptoms: extended cranking on first start of the day (not necessarily a cold day), additionally sometimes stutters when firing up, and sometimes "farts" immediately after firing up.

Only once created a "pending" P0341 fault code which led me to the "Diagnose Dan VVT valve" video on YouTube and other forums etc.


Was going to throw it back at dealer but checked 12v battery first as thought it may not have grunt to turn over the engine correctly.

Sure enough, battery low on overall charge and only produced 12.2v max after resting overnight. Using a smart charger to replenish battery had no effect. Incidentally, my car has auto stop/start, and the coasting function which increases alternator output.

Bought a new battery (AGM type) and not had the problem in over two weeks.

Original battery was the standard 68Ah Varta which is also found in my Audi A3.

Hope this helps at least some owners to find a fix. Incidentally this issue can be found on Skoda forums too - battery fix was mentioned.

EDIT:
There's an Audi video on Youtube which demonstrates how the VVT mechanism operates in the EA288 1.6 and 2.0 TDI engines.

See here: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=M-4xbGeIr58

Think its about 3mins in.
 

andymac

Member
Joined
Aug 3, 2015
Location
California
TDI
2015 Golf TDi
I'll check the size of the Costco battery when I get home tonight, but it was over ~700 CCA if I remember correctly. The OEM battery didn't take up the full size of the battery tray, so I suppose they installed a battery with just enough power to start the vehicle. They know what they're doing and engineered the correct battery I'm sure, but more cranking amps are never a bad idea. A more robust battery will give you more wiggle room if you leave the lights on too long or work on your car with the ignition on longer than usual etc.
I also just read about the ECU coding for the battery on another forum. Apparently the factory batteries made in Germany are "better" because they have very detailed specification/build/chemistry information on them from the battery manufactures (they probably use better quality materials too, because: Germany). VW is also able to tune the vehicle's charging system ("BMS", battery management system, I suppose is what it stands for) for the specific battery in the ECU. This might lend credence as to why they last as long as they do from the factory, they tune the charging system for the specific battery. When you swap your battery, especially with a different amp rating, the system will work fine, but it won't be as efficient as it was with a known battery rating, possibly reducing the max lifespan of the replacement battery.
The amount batteries are charged when nearing the full capacity mark is important apparently (State of Charge "SOC").
Consistent under or over charging the battery is possible in these more modern cars, so maximum life is achieved when the vehicle knows the battery amp rating etc. The system also observes the overall energy output of the battery (health) and instructs ancillary systems to shed loads when necessary. Interesting.
I'll have to try coding my battery when my VCDS comes in the mail. ;-)
Central California if anyone needs VCDS Services, I need to pay off this bill... :-D
Please excuse this post from a newbie, but I've had this problem on my 2015 2.0TDI 150 Jetta.
Symptoms: extended cranking on first start of the day (not necessarily a cold day), additionally sometimes stutters when firing up, and sometimes "farts" immediately after firing up.
Only once created a "pending" P0341 fault code which led me to the "Diagnose Dan VVT valve" video on YouTube and other forums etc.
Was going to throw it back at dealer but checked 12v battery first as thought it may not have grunt to turn over the engine correctly.
Sure enough, battery low on overall charge and only produced 12.2v max after resting overnight. Using a smart charger to replenish battery had no effect. Incidentally, my car has auto stop/start, and the coasting function which increases alternator output.
Bought a new battery (AGM type) and not had the problem in over two weeks.
Original battery was the standard 68Ah Varta which is also found in my Audi A3.
Hope this helps at least some owners to find a fix. Incidentally this issue can be found on Skoda forums too - battery fix was mentioned.
EDIT:
There's an Audi video on Youtube which demonstrates how the VVT mechanism operates in the EA288 1.6 and 2.0 TDI engines.
See here: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=M-4xbGeIr58
Think its about 3mins in.
 

andymac

Member
Joined
Aug 3, 2015
Location
California
TDI
2015 Golf TDi
Edit: I successfully coded a 70ah battery with a new serial (to indicate to the vehicle that it was changed). I'm going to monitor the SOC and see how it maintains it going forward.

I had to keep a battery tender on it while i had Key On Engine Off. :) I was playing with VCDS too much and i started draining the battery.
 
Last edited:

willafb

Veteran Member
Joined
Dec 6, 2008
Location
FT Meade, MD
TDI
2015 Golf TDI/2015 Golf SE
solution

All i do is turn the key all the way to the right. The car will pause (pending glow-plug process) and starts right up without issue.
 

pedroYUL

Veteran Member
Joined
Sep 8, 2011
Location
MI, USA
TDI
2004 Jetta wagon BEW; 2015 Passat SE CVCA; 2015 GSW CRUA
Hey people!

Any more insights here?

I now own a 2015 GSW which is cranking 2-3 seconds every cold start (regardless of outside temp), batt checks out (charged full with smart charger). This is a new symptom, it always started first crank last summer and thru the winter.

I did take the VVT cover out and "exercised" the valve. It was always smooth, and the oil in there was pretty clean, no gunk.

I don't know how to monitor rail pressure. I do have VCDS.

Any help is welcome.
 

pedroYUL

Veteran Member
Joined
Sep 8, 2011
Location
MI, USA
TDI
2004 Jetta wagon BEW; 2015 Passat SE CVCA; 2015 GSW CRUA
I can change the valve no sweat, but the cover is $200+...for just a lid with an actuator.
Could I just reuse the current cover?
 

JELLOWSUBMARINE

Veteran Member
Joined
Mar 3, 2014
Location
yes
TDI
2011 JSW 2.0tdi 6m 1983 VW p/u 1.6 IDI 5m
I'

I'll have to try coding my battery when my VCDS comes in the mail. ;-)

Central California if anyone needs VCDS Services, I need to pay off this bill... :-D

What part of the central valey areyou? Ive been locking for someone local? P. M. me!
 
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