2015 Golf TDI long crank first start of the day

[1945GPW]

Hey Guys!! I'm new to the form but have had diesel VW's for about 6 years now. I am more familiar with the MK4 Jetta's but recently purchased a 2015 Golf TDI and I'm really liking it.

Anyway as the title says I'm experiencing a longer than normal cranking period the very first start of the day. After that initial long start it starts normally through the day. What I mean by long crank is the engine turns over approximately 4 to 6 times before it starts. After the first start of the day it will crank about 2 turns and fires right up.

Is anyone else experiencing this and if so whats the fix for it? My golf has 24000 miles. I replaced the fuel filter and its not any better. I'm thinking the HPFP is possibly de-priming over the night causing the extra cranks, what are your thoughts? thanks

 

[1945GPW]

Don't tell me I'm the only one having this issue lol

 

[Jedadiah]

The only time I had long cranking on my mk6 was when the battery was on it's way out. Might be worth checking.

 

[sands80]

My 2015 has the same exact issue. I too chalked it up to fuel pump depressurizing over night- but sometimes it sits over night, quickly starts in the AM.
It seems random.


Somebody posted a similar thread a while back and I seem to remember that it was suggested that the owner find someone with a VCDS scanner to read and errors that may come up during startup that may not be enough to trip the check engine light.

It may be a crank position sensor ? but I think that would throw a CEL...

As for the battery - mine was replaced for a different issue (leaking acid), but the long crank time symptoms remained.

 

[marcusku]

Mine does this too and I can't seem to figure out any sort of pattern. For me it's always on a completely cold engine (first start of the day). It doesn't seem to be connected with how long it's been sitting and seems random. I also noticed a slight bit of smoke at start up once when it did this-not sure how it got through the particulate filter. I asked the dealer about it and they hadn't heard of it before. I'd like to know what it is prior to actually taking it to the dealer.

 

[1945GPW]

Okay so looks like some people are having the same issue. My brother has a 2015 jetta and he is having the intermittent long starts, my parents sportswagen starts normally and my golf has the long starts every morning.

I hooked up my VCDS and checked for codes and nothing came up. I was thinking of getting a graph log of the fuel pressure rail pressure and rpm at first start of the day and then when it warms up doing it again and seeing if there is a difference but Ill have to figure out how to log a graph with the 2015 as the basic function is not working for this year. Anyway if anyone finds out the cause of this please let us know!!

 

[Ted Hurst]

Mine does the same thing. With my old 2012 JSW I noticed that if I turned on the "ignition" but waited to start the glow plug cycle would be over resulting in a long crank, stumble and sometimes would not start on the first try. So, with the keyless "ignition", what sets off the glow plug cycle?

 

[sands80]

Mine does the same thing. With my old 2012 JSW I noticed that if I turned on the "ignition" but waited to start the glow plug cycle would be over resulting in a long crank, stumble and sometimes would not start on the first try. So, with the keyless "ignition", what sets off the glow plug cycle?

It makes sense that the extended turning over of the engine has something to do with the glow plug activity. I have had the '15 Golf for a year and a half (still running the original, pre-diesel gate software) and I noticed that during the winter months it always started right up. The longer crank times seem to occur when the weather warms up. Maybe the computer does not use the glow plugs above a certain temp?

Thats a wild guess!

 

[1945GPW]

I know the glow plugs on my 2005 TDI don't come on when the temp is over 40 but I'm not familiar with the 2015s... I ended up taking the golf to the dealer and had them check the rail pressure hpfp battery and a couple other things. They said everything checked out good so I don't know. Guess its a common thing with these new engines. I hooked up a trickle charger today and I'm going to see if maybe the battery was draining slightly over night to cause the long starts. I'll let you guys know if that seems to fix it.

 

[marcusku]

There isn't too many things it could be. Engine needs fuel, proper timing, compression, reasonable cranking speed and glow plugs (when cold at least) to start. If not the glow plugs or fuel, could the computer be doing something strange with the timing at certain temps?

 

[1945GPW]

I had the trickle charger on it last night. Didn't make a difference starting it this morning. Still has the long cranking for the first start then perfect afterwards.

Mine sits in a garage so temp stays about 70 to 80 over night. I guess this winter I will leave the car out and see how it starts in cold weather lol.

 

[marcusku]

On older ALH TDI's you could unplug the coolant sensor and this would trick the computer into running the glow plugs for an extended period of time since it didn't know what the engine temp was. Maybe it's possible to do the same thing on this engine so see if glow plug operation has an effect?

 

[PoDUB]

Another Newbie here with the same issue. My wife's 2015 Golf Sportwagen(47,000MI) has just started this occasionally. It has done it 4 times randomly over the last month and never before. Definitely happens when it has not been driven for more than a day, and the nighttime temps are cool but around 50F. I don't think the battery is the issue because crank speed is fine. I would think glow plugs are hardly needed at these temps and on some colder nights around 40F its starts immediately the next morning. Based on my home mechanic knowledge it just seems like fuel pressure issue to me. I need to see if VCDS can monitor the fuel pressure after sitting. BTW I did have the software "fix" back in July??

 

[dieselpony]

I have the same issue with my 2015 more and more often, only when it's been sitting for 8+ hours. Makes me worry a little bit about the coming winter and super cold starts. I'm going to do some experimenting with only touching the push button once, then waiting a bit, and pushing again. Maybe in-tank fuel pump will build pressure or something. I'm guessing it's not cold enough for glow plugs to function yet, but not sure? Garage stays more than 60F overnight.

 

[sands80]

Starting the TDI in the winter is a non- issue, the long starts only seem to affect me in the summer, after it sits for 8 hours+.

 

[1945GPW]

I've tried both ways. pushing the button, letting it sit until the lights goes out then starting and starting it with one push of the button. Nether has made a difference.

My golf has the phase 1 fix done to it, I don't know if that would have anything to do with it but is anyone having this problem without the fix??

 

[IndigoBlueWagon]

Something's not right. My GSW sits a lot since I tend to drive my MKIV. Sometimes it sits for a week or more. It always fires right up.

I wonder if the fuel filter canister may not be sealed properly, letting air into the fuel system and letting fuel drain back to the tank overnight. That would cause a long crank despite the lift pump in the system. Just a guess, but worth checking out.

 

[1945GPW]

Is there a way to cycle the fuel pump with VCDS to build up the pressure before starting? I have one but would need step by step instructions lol not to familiar with it.

 

[Smertrios]

Check out "Diagnose Dan" on youtube. He seems to have fixed a similar issue on a GTD - determined it was the Variable Valve Timing (vvt). It appears to be a redesigned replacement part - worth seeing if a VW recall may appy.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DXvHdmq0reA

 

[sands80]

Genius!

This is it! I wonder if there is a technical bulletin on the 'long crank' here in the states?

Great video find!

 

[1945GPW]

Nice!!!! Looks like this will fix our problem. Now how do we go about getting a recall for this?? If the car is still under warranty they should fix it right lol

 

[sands80]

Could anyone post the part #'s?
This problem would also be the reason why the sometimes during startup in the AM - the engine is so diesel clacking loud.

 

[IndigoBlueWagon]

You should take your car back to the dealer for diagnosis. Something's not right. My GSW sat for a week and it fired right up yesterday. No odd noises.

 

[TurnOne]

Mine hasn't had the fix and it does this sometimes. I don't mind really, only takes 1-2 seconds longer to start and its not like I had to press the button any longer.

Now if it is an issue that gets worse or is a symptom of a larger problem, that would be of note to me.

 

[Catarinforlifr]

This has also been happening to my car lately. It seems to happen when I'm parked in my apartment's carport which is on a very slight incline. When i park in another part of the parking area, with even more of an incline it happens less.

The other morning, the engine cranked for about three seconds before starting up. I do have the part 1 fix as well.

 

[marcusku]

Check out "Diagnose Dan" on youtube. He seems to have fixed a similar issue on a GTD - determined it was the Variable Valve Timing (vvt). It appears to be a redesigned replacement part - worth seeing if a VW recall may appy.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DXvHdmq0reA

Nice find! I think this really likely the issue. It would account for it happening intermittently and varying crank times depending on if the valve stuck or not. Maybe it's possible the valve could stick halfway open allowing for some of the oil to come out. I'll have to check to see which one I have, should be able to tell visually. Now the question is how we get the updated part. Should be a warranty issue though I'm not sure I trust the dealer to do the work.

 

[VeeDubTDI]

There isn't too many things it could be. Engine needs fuel, proper timing, compression, reasonable cranking speed and glow plugs (when cold at least) to start. If not the glow plugs or fuel, could the computer be doing something strange with the timing at certain temps?

It could be even more obscure than that. Example, 1999.5 Jetta TDIs had a hot start problem that was due to a corrupt/bad fuel map. I'm not suggesting that this is the issue with the 2015s, but the issue could be deeper than a mechanical problem.

I'm going to put my Monopoly money on Dan's diagnosis.

 

[marcusku]

It could be even more obscure than that. Example, 1999.5 Jetta TDIs had a hot start problem that was due to a corrupt/bad fuel map. I'm not suggesting that this is the issue with the 2015s, but the issue could be deeper than a mechanical problem.

I'm going to put my Monopoly money on Dan's diagnosis.

Indeed the problem could definitely be obscure. But the obscure issue would cause a problem with the basic things the engine needs to start. The bad fuel map probably was either not injecting the proper quantity of fuel or it was injecting it at the wrong time.

I did some checking today. Dan listed two part numbers:

V 03L 109 096B--body with the solenoid valve
V 03L 906 455C--bolt/valve assembly

Looked under the hood and my car already seems to the have new body and the part number stamped on it is: 1 03L 109 096B which seems to check out. (not sure of the difference with the "1" and the "V" It definitely looks like the replacement in the video.

Then I went to the dealer and found that my car (and presumably everyone's) came with valve 03L 906 455 and this part is superseded by 03L 906 455C! Very suspicious!

Now if anyone can convince their dealer to replace it under warranty will be a question. I may just order the part and install it myself since I don't trust my local dealer's service department. My long cranking time doesn't show itself very often so I doubt they would replace it even if I told them it was the problem.

 

[1945GPW]

Did you happen to get a price quote on the parts? I looked online and the parts didn't show up. I might run to the dealer tomorrow and see what the word is on getting these.

 

[IndigoBlueWagon]

I tried those numbers in PartsLink with my GSW's VIN and got nothing.