2015 Golf TDI long crank first start of the day

dutch.mafia

Veteran Member
Joined
Jun 19, 2015
Location
Waupun, WI
TDI
2002 Golf
Interesting that I am not the only one experiencing this issue. It is only ever the first start of the day, at least 5 of the 7 days of a week. When I initially bought the car, I figured it was a fuel filter issue, as the car had 36,000 miles and had been sitting in a lot for a few months. I did the 40,000 mile service in its entirety, fuel filter included, and symptoms did not improve. My next assumption was something to do with the glow plugs, as it was happening (it seemed) on the cooler mornings where the computer was "confused" if it should use them or not. Then my battery died, so I assumed that had to be the culprit. Slowly dying battery causing slow starts. So I replaced with an new OEM 72Ah battery out of previous generation JSW. The issue persists.
 

JELLOWSUBMARINE

Veteran Member
Joined
Mar 3, 2014
Location
yes
TDI
2011 JSW 2.0tdi 6m 1983 VW p/u 1.6 IDI 5m
As weird as it sounds, turn key on/engine off, press pedal down 2xs then crank. Dunno??? Others say it fixes intermittent long crank and it does for me too.
 

Mike in Anchorage

Veteran Member
Joined
Jan 4, 2009
Location
Anchorage, AK
TDI
2016 Touareg Lux, 2015 Golf Sportwagen SE, new 4 Sept 2017;2009 VW Jetta TDI Sportwagen (Ruby) sold to VW on 22 SEP 2017
As weird as it sounds, turn key on/engine off, press pedal down 2xs then crank. Dunno??? Others say it fixes intermittent long crank and it does for me too.
I tried that procedure last week and the next few starts were less cranking. Since then, the longer crank times have returned. Has anyone else verified?
 

thundershorts

Top Post Dawg
Joined
Jul 15, 2010
Location
west chester pa
TDI
2015 passat tdi sel premium 2015 golf s tdi gls tdi b5.5, 2002 eurovan,Peugeot 505 td,Citroen cx25 prestige
I had the problem 2 1/2 years ago and installing a new lift pump solved the problem. New lift pump has a superceded part number.
 

thundershorts

Top Post Dawg
Joined
Jul 15, 2010
Location
west chester pa
TDI
2015 passat tdi sel premium 2015 golf s tdi gls tdi b5.5, 2002 eurovan,Peugeot 505 td,Citroen cx25 prestige
No, fault codes can be generated from lift pump itself, just low rail pressure and unusual sound from lift pump. Apparently to get a low rail pressure code, its got to have started. Must be a delay in that code to set. The you tube video showing the analysis of the earlier check valve fault I don't think applies as our cars have the later assembly.
 

marcusku

Veteran Member
Joined
Dec 7, 2003
Location
Madison, Wisconsin
TDI
Golf Sportwagen, 15', red
Looks like P/N 5Q0919050BA?

thundershorts, how did you figure out that was the problem? Many of us (myself included) have been looking for a solution for quite some time.
 

thundershorts

Top Post Dawg
Joined
Jul 15, 2010
Location
west chester pa
TDI
2015 passat tdi sel premium 2015 golf s tdi gls tdi b5.5, 2002 eurovan,Peugeot 505 td,Citroen cx25 prestige
Pump failed on a cold morning after driving about 3 miles shutting off car. attempted to restart and each time pump emitted a very loud screech, metallic sound and also glow plug light was flashing. Later when it was warmer it started and showed a low rail pressure code. I investigated availability of new lift pump and found the the part number had been superseded to one that only 3 existed in the US. That was my clue that VW knew. Since I wasn't about to wait till the pump left me stranded somewhere, I got one of those three that were available. Externally the pumps look exactly the same. I still have the old one. After replacing the pump I noticed immediately that the new pump was almost silent whereas pump in my passat emits a low pitched 60hz type hum like the original golf tdi pump. Over the years I've replaced lots of lift pumps. Perhaps sitting in funky fuel dormant for two years didn't help it either; When I bought this may 2015 production car new in aug 2017, It ran so poorly it wouldn't pull the skin off a rice pudding till the tank was filled with fresh fuel. Hope this helps explain why I think this is the majority of the problem. I've had zero long crank starts since and had numerous long ones before. Question is, put up with long cranks, wait till it totally craps out to get vw to pay for it, or replace it yourself for peace of mind. I just add it to list of things I couldn't put up with like the awful. distorting windshield i replaced with St Gobain one.
 

marcusku

Veteran Member
Joined
Dec 7, 2003
Location
Madison, Wisconsin
TDI
Golf Sportwagen, 15', red
Interesting, I see the pump isn't the cheapest but I could be inclined to replace if it's not a horrible amount of work. Do you happen to know the part number if your replacement pump? Mine has always started much more quickly when it's cold. Maybe during the time the glow plugs are running that gives it a chance to build rail pressure?
 

thundershorts

Top Post Dawg
Joined
Jul 15, 2010
Location
west chester pa
TDI
2015 passat tdi sel premium 2015 golf s tdi gls tdi b5.5, 2002 eurovan,Peugeot 505 td,Citroen cx25 prestige
I'll ck the part number I installed later today. My reason to replace pump was reliability, curing long crank was a welcome bonus. I.ve posted this since others are looking for cure. VAG logically wouldn't admit to a reason for any design change as a recall of pumps would be expensive. Its really easy to change it unlike GM ones that require dropping the tank. During a normal start cycle pump only runs less than a second pressurizing supply to hp pump. Overnight, whatever check valve is contained in the lift pump assembly may allow fuel in line to return to tank and it takes a few seconds to restore steady supply to hpp. Lift pump does run during starter engagement.
 

thundershorts

Top Post Dawg
Joined
Jul 15, 2010
Location
west chester pa
TDI
2015 passat tdi sel premium 2015 golf s tdi gls tdi b5.5, 2002 eurovan,Peugeot 505 td,Citroen cx25 prestige
I think another cure alternative would be to install a check valve in the line from the lift pump to the hpp. First you'd have to find a ck valve that would resist fuel and have a cracking pressure of perhaps 5 psi, viton innards would be ideal. It might cost 30-50 bucks for a good one and for 200 more get the newer pump and be done with it. I did find the long crank was irritating prior to pump change as it was an indication of malfunction of a sort. Sort of like an itch I couldn't scratch.
 

ThomasCo

Active member
Joined
Sep 15, 2020
Location
CO
TDI
2010 JSW TDI
I'll ck the part number I installed later today. My reason to replace pump was reliability, curing long crank was a welcome bonus. I.ve posted this since others are looking for cure. VAG logically wouldn't admit to a reason for any design change as a recall of pumps would be expensive. Its really easy to change it unlike GM ones that require dropping the tank. During a normal start cycle pump only runs less than a second pressurizing supply to hp pump. Overnight, whatever check valve is contained in the lift pump assembly may allow fuel in line to return to tank and it takes a few seconds to restore steady supply to hpp. Lift pump does run during starter engagement.
Could you please follow up with the part number that you used? Will it fit my 2010 JSW TDI?

Also, is lift pump synonym with fuel pump (i.e., the part that sits in the tank opening underneath the back seat)?

Thanks!
 

pedroYUL

Veteran Member
Joined
Sep 8, 2011
Location
MI, USA
TDI
2004 Jetta wagon BEW; 2015 Passat SE CVCA; 2015 GSW CRUA
Lingo:
  • Lift pump lives inside the fuel tank
  • High pressure fuel pump resides in the engine bay, it is driven by the timing belt
  • On older PD cars there is a lift pump and a tandem pump, cam driven
  • In even older VE cars there's no lift pump and there is actually a big IP (injection pump), timing belt driven
 

Maquilina11

New member
Joined
Oct 6, 2020
Location
Rochester, ny
TDI
2015 gsw sel
Indeed the problem could definitely be obscure. But the obscure issue would cause a problem with the basic things the engine needs to start. The bad fuel map probably was either not injecting the proper quantity of fuel or it was injecting it at the wrong time.

I did some checking today. Dan listed two part numbers:

V 03L 109 096B--body with the solenoid valve
V 03L 906 455C--bolt/valve assembly

Looked under the hood and my car already seems to the have new body and the part number stamped on it is: 1 03L 109 096B which seems to check out. (not sure of the difference with the "1" and the "V" It definitely looks like the replacement in the video.

Then I went to the dealer and found that my car (and presumably everyone's) came with valve 03L 906 455 and this part is superseded by 03L 906 455C! Very suspicious!

Now if anyone can convince their dealer to replace it under warranty will be a question. I may just order the part and install it myself since I don't trust my local dealer's service department. My long cranking time doesn't show itself very often so I doubt they would replace it even if I told them it was the problem.
I have the parts coming to do my vvt and solenoid. Were you able to find the torques for the spool valve and solenoid. Plus do you still have the pdf manual?
 

pedroYUL

Veteran Member
Joined
Sep 8, 2011
Location
MI, USA
TDI
2004 Jetta wagon BEW; 2015 Passat SE CVCA; 2015 GSW CRUA
...and the issue with my wife's GSW was...battery, as many have mentioned before.
The good thing is that I didn't throw parts at it. Now my Passat is doing it too, and the battery is also 5 years old, time for another new battery.
 

Phil7870

New member
Joined
Oct 12, 2020
Location
Edmonton
TDI
Jetta 2013
I have a 2013 tdi Jetta and it was having the long crank issue on the first start of the day with no fault codes showing up. At first I changed the fuel filter and lifter pump in the tank, with no joy it still had the problem. My reason was i taught the engine sounded like it wasn’t getting fuel/restricted fuel supply.

Next up I checked the glow plugs they where ok. I didn’t think these where the cause because it was summer and the temperatures didn’t effect the starting problem. But I checked them anyway.

After ringing vw and being told basically that if there’s no codes they weren’t overly confident that they would come to a solution in a reasonable amount of time and with the cost of 165 a hour to trouble shoot it the maintenance tech said keep driving it till it gets worse.

So after awhile of being frustrated wondering if my car would start in the morning, or if today was going to be the day it would finally let me down. And as the cranks seemed to go from 3 or 4 seconds up to 9 or 10 seconds I figured it out.

The fuel tank wasn’t venting so as the engine was burning fuel it was creating a vacuum in the tank. When the car was sitting overnight the vacuum sucked the fuel back from the engine. I never taught much of the noise of air sucking into the tank when I opened the fuel cap. But now I just leave the cap a half turn open and it allows air into the tank. And I haven’t had the long crank in five weeks .


I’m not to sure if the vent is in the fuel filler cap on these diesel or how exactly the tank vents. Does anyone here have a idea ? So I could get a more permanent solution but for now the half turn is working out.

hopefully this post helps someone out
 

marcusku

Veteran Member
Joined
Dec 7, 2003
Location
Madison, Wisconsin
TDI
Golf Sportwagen, 15', red
I have the parts coming to do my vvt and solenoid. Were you able to find the torques for the spool valve and solenoid. Plus do you still have the pdf manual?
Let me know if you still need the torque values, I can dig them up.

I never did do anything with that valve. I did recently replace the lift pump as Thundershorts suggested. Installed the part number above. So far so good but time will tell if it makes a difference.

The new pump is a definitely a different design. For me replacing the battery had no affect on this problem.

On a side note, when I replaced the pump I had "0 miles remaining". There still appeared to be a decent amount of fuel left in the tank. Not that I plan driving past "0 miles remaining" but good to know I'm not living on the edge. Typically when I get to this point I can fit just over 13 gallons in.
 

Nuje

Veteran Member
Joined
Feb 11, 2005
Location
Island near Vancouver
TDI
2015 Sportwagen; Golf GLS 2003; 2016 A3 e-tron
I have a 2013 tdi Jetta and it was having the long crank issue on the first start of the day with no fault codes showing up. At first I changed the fuel filter and lifter pump in the tank, with no joy it still had the problem. My reason was i taught the engine sounded like it wasn’t getting fuel/restricted fuel supply.
Your 2013 is a Mk6 (and this is the Mk7 sub-forum); if you post your question over at the Mk6 sub-forum, you might get more better responses.
 

thundershorts

Top Post Dawg
Joined
Jul 15, 2010
Location
west chester pa
TDI
2015 passat tdi sel premium 2015 golf s tdi gls tdi b5.5, 2002 eurovan,Peugeot 505 td,Citroen cx25 prestige
As have posted here, in tank lift pumps have been problematic for all manufacturers for many years. It was no surprise for me that mine failed, after all, Toyota is recalling three million of them. Once I replaced with the latest unit, no more intermittent long cranking. Ever since in tank pumps were first used, they have been source of trouble. Wonder if Toyota pumps are accessible without tank drop like GM pumps.
 
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