2002 Golf - I'm back in a TDI!

spifflifkin

Veteran Member
Joined
May 11, 2003
Location
Western WA
TDI
2002 Golf
I might change the valve stem seals. Maybe that's one reason it smokes a lot when it starts. I can't believe it didn't cross my mind when the head was off. When I have the cam out I think I might swap the IP with the one that came on the car. I haven't screwed with that one.
 
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spifflifkin

Veteran Member
Joined
May 11, 2003
Location
Western WA
TDI
2002 Golf
I've been driving it a bit more. It runs great after it gets over the rough idling and smoking when it starts. I still smell fuel too.
A few days ago I swapped the IP that I rebuilt with the one that came on the car. I didn't notice any difference in the smoking or the performance of the car. The bubble in the fuel line did eventually go away.
The IP IQ value wasn't 32768. I took a screenshot of the old # but broke my phone a couple days later so I don't know what it was. Anyways, I changed it to 32768.


The IP timing is OK. It smokes less with the timing a little advanced.
Does anyone know what the fuel temp specs are? Like, what is the max temp it should ever be? I'm not asking because of this graph.


The IQ Deviation seems OK


The IQ is low. When I put the pump in the hammer mod did nothing. Although the cover I was hammering only could move a small amount. Maybe .020". I marked it before hammering. On the pump I rebuilt, the hammer mod adjusted the IQ very well.


New logs: https://drive.google.com/drive/folders/15PBP2mJM5K3ITdk15fDQj6baXVRCBVhF?usp=sharing
 
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spifflifkin

Veteran Member
Joined
May 11, 2003
Location
Western WA
TDI
2002 Golf
Also, this last night was below freezing so I used the Frost Heater. I put it on a timer so it turned on 2 hours before I started the car. There was hardly any smoke and the engine idled smoothly right away. It was nice to have heat immediately too! That thing is awesome!
 

Matt-98AHU

Loose Nut Behind the Wheel Vendor
Joined
Apr 23, 2006
Location
Gresham, OR
TDI
2001 Golf TDI, 2005 Passat wagon, 2004 Touareg V10.
I've been driving it a bit more. It runs great after it gets over the rough idling and smoking when it starts. I still smell fuel too.
A few days ago I swapped the IP that I rebuilt with the one that came on the car. I didn't notice any difference in the smoking or the performance of the car. The bubble in the fuel line did eventually go away.
The IP IQ value wasn't 32768. I took a screenshot of the old # but broke my phone a couple days later so I don't know what it was. Anyways, I changed it to 32768.


The IP timing is OK. It smokes less with the timing a little advanced.
Does anyone know what the fuel temp specs are? Like, what is the max temp it should ever be? I'm not asking because of this graph.


The IQ Deviation seems OK


The IQ is low. When I put the pump in the hammer mod did nothing. Although the cover I was hammering only could move a small amount. Maybe .020". I marked it before hammering. On the pump I rebuilt, the hammer mod adjusted the IQ very well.


New logs: https://drive.google.com/drive/folders/15PBP2mJM5K3ITdk15fDQj6baXVRCBVhF?usp=sharing
Might want to hammer mod the injected quantity closer to 3 mg/str with the engine warm, especially before the summer months. Will run the risk of slow down shudder where it's at currently, and the revs will hang a bit more, is also more likely to smoke under WOT conditions.
 

spifflifkin

Veteran Member
Joined
May 11, 2003
Location
Western WA
TDI
2002 Golf
Might want to hammer mod the injected quantity closer to 3 mg/str with the engine warm, especially before the summer months. Will run the risk of slow down shudder where it's at currently, and the revs will hang a bit more, is also more likely to smoke under WOT conditions.
Thank you for the suggestion. I did that over lunch today.
I also left the ignition on longer before starting it today. There wasn't much smoke but it still idled rough. It's been kept inside a ~66°F building.
 

csstevej

Top Post Dawg
Joined
Aug 12, 2004
Location
north nj
TDI
2001 golf tdi 4 door auto now a manual, mine, 2000 golf 2 door M/T son's,daughters 98 NB non-TDI 2.0, 2003 TDI NB for next daughter, head repaired and on road,gluten for punishment got another tdi 2001NB,another yellow tdi NB

braddies

Veteran Member
Joined
Jul 26, 2021
Location
America
TDI
03 golf ALH
Might want to hammer mod the injected quantity closer to 3 mg/str with the engine warm, especially before the summer months. Will run the risk of slow down shudder where it's at currently, and the revs will hang a bit more, is also more likely to smoke under WOT conditions.
Just curious, what other risks are associated with the symptom of slowdown shudder?
Rev hang is almost an advantage to rev match when upshifting..
When my motor is cold the revs drop a little "too" fast which makes rev-matching the upshift from 1st to 2nd a little different and rougher than when warmed up.
Your response has me wondering what other repercussions there might be caused by slowdown shudder.., care told elaborate?
 

burpod

teh stallionz!!1
Joined
Nov 27, 2004
Location
cape cod, ma
TDI
82 rabbit vnt ahu, 98 jetta vnt ahu, 05 parts car, 88 scirocco.. :/
Just curious, what other risks are associated with the symptom of slowdown shudder?
Rev hang is almost an advantage to rev match when upshifting..
When my motor is cold the revs drop a little "too" fast which makes rev-matching the upshift from 1st to 2nd a little different and rougher than when warmed up.
Your response has me wondering what other repercussions there might be caused by slowdown shudder.., care told elaborate?
slowdown shudder can be cause both by "IQ" too low or too high - and remember, when you change "IQ", not only are you changing the fueling, but you're changing the effective advance. the SOI (start of injection) has not changed, but the EOI (end of injection) has. higher IQ means more effective advance. lower IQ means timing is effectively retarded.

for most stock/typical tunes, it would be because IQ is to low - durations are too long per the IQ amount. if you're at IQ of 2.0mg instead of 4.0mg, the pump map is off by about .130v (on a stock pump map!!) - that's a decent amount of duration to be off by. that would mean, for example on a stock 10mm/.185 fueled car, 15mg @ 2000rpm would actually be about 17mg worth of fuel. a stock pump map actually calls for a tiny bit of fuel injection when 0mg is requested starting around 1250rpm and increases down to the lowest of rpms. with correct fueling, this will only be enough to keep itself idling along nicely. if fueling is too much, it will want buck a little down close to idle rpm. this might be partly because timing is now too retarded. maybe a little too much "torque", or poor combustion? most tunes just use a pump map very similar to a 10m/.185 pump map (just fudged up towards 51mg to max out the duration), so the behavior at 0mg is there.

slowdown shudder can also be caused by too much advance. it's a subtle difference. too much advance getting a little too much negative torque, can cause a fluttering.

another probably reason why the shudder can happen is because IQ being off from reality, the ecu's idle stabilization program/heuristics work. if IQ isn't real/correct, it's simply not going to work as well as it should during the very low rpms when it is in play.

all of that should point to the importance of IQ numbers being real or at least based in reality, rather than how most tunes work, with IQ numbers being "just a number" - depending on the tune, "IQ", pump/nozzles, 40mg @ 2000rpm might mean 45mg, or it might mean 65mg. 10mg @ 1500 might mean 8mg, or it might mean 20mg.

rev-hang happens because the fueling is too "strong"- durations are too long per the IQ amount - that is, 5mg is actually more than 5mg worth of fuel. because the go pedal isn't an on/off switch, as you let up on the pedal, it catches some % throttle input - it will still call for some fuel, as determined by how fast the pedal comes up and the rpms... look at the driver wish below. if you rev up to 3500rpm, and let off, you'll catch a few mg worth of fuel ~3000rpm. on a stock, or correctly calibrated tune for fueling, you won't notice much. but if fueling is too strong, those few mg might be actually 8mg fuel - enough to be noticeable and thus causing the rev-hang.

here's a stock driver wish map. virtually all tunes use this map without any modifications other than fudge up the last couple columns so it goes to 51mg:



the correct way to increase "rev-hang" if one wants a little bit for shifting purposes, would be to modify the driver wish map a little bit, rather than throw off the fueling. generally, IMO, if the fueling is correct, the stock driver wish map for the lower % throttle columns works perfectly.
 

spifflifkin

Veteran Member
Joined
May 11, 2003
Location
Western WA
TDI
2002 Golf
👆Freakin' beautiful.
https://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=677624&highlight=

Thanks! It's fun!
My aunt found this in the desert in AZ probably around 2011-ish. She bought it for a couple grand then took it to a local mechanic to fix up. The mechanical ripped her off pretty good (IMO) for many years. She had it in a storage unit for almost the entire time she had it. Unfortunately, she didn't have any before pics.

In 2017 I was in AZ for work and I talked her in to showing it to me. it took a lot of convincing but eventually she took me to the storage unit. It wouldn't start so I went to Checker and got some tools and a battery. After cleaning the carb and replacing the battery it fired right up! Then she broke down. She said it was financially draining her. I looked at receipts of how much that mechanic had charged her and was shocked. She was old, retired and very trusting so whatever the mechanic said to do, she did. The next day she said that I could have it.

My plan was to take it back home, fix it up then surprise her with a running, reliable truck. Mechanically it wasn't in great shape. I worked on it a lot for about a year as you can see by the dates of the pics on the Samba. About a year after I brought it home she passed away. Since 2018 I've redone the interior of the cab but that's about all. I drive it a lot in the summer. I need to fix the seals on the transaxle, but other that that it's in pretty good shape!

This is my Aunt on the way to WA in 2017.

 
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spifflifkin

Veteran Member
Joined
May 11, 2003
Location
Western WA
TDI
2002 Golf
I like that Frost Heater!

~25° startup w/o Frost Heater

~30° startup with Frost Heater plugged in for 2 hours prior.
 

spifflifkin

Veteran Member
Joined
May 11, 2003
Location
Western WA
TDI
2002 Golf
Put a new muffler and mid pipe on last night. More because the hangers on the muffler were rusted off and the rubber hangers on the mid pipe were rotted.

 

spifflifkin

Veteran Member
Joined
May 11, 2003
Location
Western WA
TDI
2002 Golf
This weekend I installed .681 5th gear and new style retaining springs.
Last week on a trip to Seattle to Portland the average was 46 mpg including the driving around town. Next week I'll drive down again and see what difference it makes. Also, when I was in OR I installed a Scan Gauge II.
 

spifflifkin

Veteran Member
Joined
May 11, 2003
Location
Western WA
TDI
2002 Golf
Kid's home from college this weekend. After dinner I told him that we should go for a ride in the Golf to show him how it turned out. And the battery was almost dead...

It's been sitting for about 24 hours since I last drove it. Could the Scan Gauge II I just installed drain the battery? I jumped it then drove it around a bit. Battery charge showed about 14-14.1V. I unplugged the scan gauge and will see if it's still dead tomorrow.
 

KrashDH

Top Post Dawg
Joined
Dec 22, 2013
Location
Washington
TDI
2002 Golf
Kid's home from college this weekend. After dinner I told him that we should go for a ride in the Golf to show him how it turned out. And the battery was almost dead...

It's been sitting for about 24 hours since I last drove it. Could the Scan Gauge II I just installed drain the battery? I jumped it then drove it around a bit. Battery charge showed about 14-14.1V. I unplugged the scan gauge and will see if it's still dead tomorrow.
Load test the battery
 

spifflifkin

Veteran Member
Joined
May 11, 2003
Location
Western WA
TDI
2002 Golf
I wonder If I left a door ajar. I did that once while I was repairing it and that drained the battery a bit.
I just checked and found that I can partially close some of the doors and the alarm still beeps when I lock it.
 

P2B

Top Post Dawg
Joined
Jan 11, 2006
Location
Toronto & Muskoka, Canada
TDI
2002 Jetta, 2003 Jetta, 2003 Jetta Wagon
If the alarm beeps the CCM thinks the doors are closed and all interior lights will be off. There is no power to the OBD port when the ignition is off, so the SGII is not the issue. I leave mine connected.
 

spifflifkin

Veteran Member
Joined
May 11, 2003
Location
Western WA
TDI
2002 Golf
If the alarm beeps the CCM thinks the doors are closed and all interior lights will be off. There is no power to the OBD port when the ignition is off, so the SGII is not the issue. I leave mine connected.
Right on. I bet I left a door partially open and didn't notice the interior light. I have a new passenger side door latch that I need to install.
 

spifflifkin

Veteran Member
Joined
May 11, 2003
Location
Western WA
TDI
2002 Golf
The car started right up this morning!
I put in a new door latch on the front passenger door. Now the red light on the door comes on and the alarm doesn't beep when the door is partially closed. The rear driver door can still be partially closed and the alarm will beep.

I won't drive the car until Wednesday morning. We'll see if the battery goes dead after sitting for 2 days. Fingers crossed! :)
 

spifflifkin

Veteran Member
Joined
May 11, 2003
Location
Western WA
TDI
2002 Golf
Well, it sat for a couple days and the battery was dead again. I jumped it, drove it to work and pulled it in to the shop.

I'll start troubleshooting with this video from the Humble Mechanic.

Right now I have a battery charger on it, the driver's door and hood open with the latches closed so the car thinks they're closed. The car is locked (the lock horn beeped when I locked it). I did a quick test and there was no voltage on any fuses. I'll check it again over lunch.
 

csstevej

Top Post Dawg
Joined
Aug 12, 2004
Location
north nj
TDI
2001 golf tdi 4 door auto now a manual, mine, 2000 golf 2 door M/T son's,daughters 98 NB non-TDI 2.0, 2003 TDI NB for next daughter, head repaired and on road,gluten for punishment got another tdi 2001NB,another yellow tdi NB
That’s a pretty good video too .

With the windows down look inside a see if the puddle lights are on and in the trunk area too , fold the seats down so you can peek in there or lock the latch with it open and wait the 29-30 minutes for the modules to go to sleep.
 

spifflifkin

Veteran Member
Joined
May 11, 2003
Location
Western WA
TDI
2002 Golf
That’s a pretty good video too .

With the windows down look inside a see if the puddle lights are on and in the trunk area too , fold the seats down so you can peek in there or lock the latch with it open and wait the 29-30 minutes for the modules to go to sleep.
Thanks for the suggestion! I checked and the puddle lights and the trunk light are off. The car has been locked and undisturbed for about 3 hours.
 
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