DSG Auto DMF Failing or Failures Thread

[FletchMan]

I didn't own the car at the time but records show my 2006 had the dmf replaced at 147k.

 

[Matt65]

Hm. Drove around last night, it was around 4*C out, heard a lot of rattling in lower gears when accelerating. My old Honda Accord used to do similar stuff, but with all the talk of how bad the DMF's are in these things, its pretty easy to be paranoid.

Drove it around the block a bit, its warmer out today, and no sign of rattling. Though I let it set some and heard that sort of "pebbles in a can" sound that seems to be a telltale sign of the DMF. I'll attach a video with that. I'm still new to diesels, so still getting a lot of the noises sorted out and all.
I've also noticed, after having the transmission 40k fluid service done, downshifting from 2nd to 1st and coming to a complete stop, there's a slight kick that I don't really recall being there. In addition, the transmission clicks some when shifting from P or N to D. It's weird, these last two things, on VWvortex and a couple of other sites, were said to be normal in some DSG's. Some even reported them in brand new cars (Golfs and GTIs mostly) during test drives. I'm not entirely sure what to make of it.

https://youtu.be/yHFjL7n8nB4

Listening to your video it's hard for me to tell. It's difficult to get a good recording and playback (esp on my cellphone speaker) that is the same as what you will hear in person.

I didn't take a video of mine before replacement, but it sounded / rattled like the link below at idle and wound go away off idle. The unique sound of mine was its irregular pattern. It was easily distinguished from the engine which is very regular and consistent.

To me the best way to check for a bad DMF is to Disconnect the battery, remove the airbox, remove the starter and you can access the DMF teeth that engage the starter. Use a screw driver carefully to not damage the teeth and rotate the DMF clock and counter clockwise. A little play is as expected. Mine was getting around an inch without a lot of force at the teeth when I replaced it. This was almost completely cover the DMF to Crank bolts.

https://youtu.be/55aMHmfNUYc

 

[vmb]

Listening to your video it's hard for me to tell. It's difficult to get a good recording and playback (esp on my cellphone speaker) that is the same as what you will hear in person.

I didn't take a video of mine before replacement, but it sounded / rattled like the link below at idle and wound go away off idle. The unique sound of mine was its irregular pattern. It was easily distinguished from the engine which is very regular and consistent.

To me the best way to check for a bad DMF is to Disconnect the battery, remove the airbox, remove the starter and you can access the DMF teeth that engage the starter. Use a screw driver carefully to not damage the teeth and rotate the DMF clock and counter clockwise. A little play is as expected. Mine was getting around an inch without a lot of force at the teeth when I replaced it. This was almost completely cover the DMF to Crank bolts.

https://youtu.be/55aMHmfNUYc

Had someone else listen to it in person who had to replace theirs. They didn't hear anything either. Had listened to other videos and I certainly am not hearing any loud rattle outside, especially compared to what is reported in failing DMFs.

Sent from my GT-N5110 using Tapatalk

 

[N.CaTDI]

Had someone else listen to it in person who had to replace theirs. They didn't hear anything either. Had listened to other videos and I certainly am not hearing any loud rattle outside, especially compared to what is reported in failing DMFs.

Sent from my GT-N5110 using Tapatalk

Other test you can do is pull starter and see how far you can move DMF Mine was making noise and I pulled starter and could move it around one inch. Place I had replace it said max should be 10mm

 

[vmb]

Other test you can do is pull starter and see how far you can move DMF Mine was making noise and I pulled starter and could move it around one inch. Place I had replace it said max should be 10mm

Alright, thats something else i'll take a look at. I think, at least on some level, i'm mostly just being a bit paranoid. But you know.

Sent from my GT-N5110 using Tapatalk

 

[GreenLantern_TDI]

Could be paranoid or your tranny is about to explode.

 

[MonsterTDI09]

Alright, thats something else i'll take a look at. I think, at least on some level, i'm mostly just being a bit paranoid. But you know.

Sent from my GT-N5110 using Tapatalk

Your DMF sounds find.

 

[WaZZabi]

Posting here typically means something bad happened, and something bad has happened..

Hello fellow TDI forum members. It has been a while since I posted. I was hoping not to post to this thread because posting here typically means something bad happened, and something bad has happened..

Earlier this week, I brought the car in for the 60k service. Since I received the “olive branch” from VW’s dieselgate, I decided to use the $500.00 card offered for dealer use only for dealer service. In October of 2013, I posted about hearing the marbles in a can noise coming from under the car, which the dealer could not verify then. This time, the noise was noticeably louder but only when the car was first started and cooler out. I had them keep the car overnight so they could start it when cold and received a call that morning the noise was not present, the car was ready to be picked up.

I arrived at the service department at 6:00 PM, processed the paperwork and waited for the valet to bring the car around. As soon as he pulled up, low and behold, the noise was there. I shut the car off and went looking for the service manager and made him aware of the note on the R.O., started the car and had him listen. Within 10 seconds of starting…the marbles in the can began to make their presence known. He pops the hood and gets a better listen…”Sounds like it’s coming from the bell housing…maybe DMF”…he says. I then say if you look at the R.O. history and you will see I’ve noted this noise on every visit. You’ve had the car for 2 days for this service, 1.5 days in September for the 2306 recall and I no one could “verify” the noise. Now that you hear it for yourself, what is the next step?

I was told to bring the car back so they could put it on the lift to get a better listen. I made arrangements to bring the car back today, expecting not to be there for more than 45 minutes. An hour and 45 minutes later, the marbles in the can were verified by a tech and I was told the DMF would need to be replaced, 57,100 miles on the odo.

I walk back into the service writers’ office and before I even sit, he hands me an estimate of $1,387.00 to replace the DMF. I look at him ask why am I receiving an estimate when I have an extended warranty? He then goes into his system and says there is no extended warranty present. I go to my glove box and pull out the Drive Easy warranty packet and contract. I reminded him he took a copy of the contract on my first visit before the standard warranty expired for his files. He has no recollection or copy. He then says he needs to call for authorization before any work can be done. I should hear back from him before day’s end.

At 1:30, he called and I made an appointment to drop off the car on Monday the 4th.

Now that you have my story, what other DMF related issues should I have them check for?

Should I insist the fly wheel be replaced along with the DMF? Should I have them check the clutch pack / gear box for excessive play? Do I insist the alignment be done since the suspension has to be taken apart partially? What questions should I ask or what else should I have replaced?

Any input would be greatly appreciated.

Thanks in advance…

 

[aja8888]

Now that you have my story, what other DMF related issues should I have them check for?
Should I insist the fly wheel be replaced along with the DMF? Should I have them check the clutch pack / gear box for excessive play? Do I insist the alignment be done since the suspension has to be taken apart partially? What questions should I ask or what else should I have replaced?
Any input would be greatly appreciated.
Thanks in advance…

They are replacing the flywheel (DMF).

As far as them checking the transmission internals, I doubt anyone there is qualified to do more than remove/replace parts. Remember, they don't "fix" things at dealerships.

If they remove the lower control arms to pull the DMF, it will need an alignment. On some cars, the DMF can be pulled without removing the trans, just sliding it back a few inches. On your car, IDK.

 

[oilhammer]

You will just need a new DMF, that's it. They can check the alignment once they are finished, it is kind of the tech's discretion for us here. I take note of how the car drives afterwards, if the steering wheel is still straight, then I usually don't mess with it. I just carefully mark the position of the subframe before I take it out. If the wheel is off, I put it up on the alignment rack and straighten it out. It really is not that big of a deal. We do these all the time.

The labor for the trans R&R is enough for me that it easily covers my time to realign the car if necessary.

 

[WaZZabi]

aja8888 and oilhammer... Thank you for the input..
Very much appreciated.

 

[Überläufer]

Here's a video of mine after a cold start at night that sounds very similar to all of the others. A really unfortunate part about this one is that it is only 35k miles since replaced by a TDI mechanic on the recommended list here.
I'd like to get more miles out of this but it seems like too much of a risk to let it go.
https://youtu.be/SGTAQ5Y9eyo

 

[Überläufer]

On the DSG, is the sound of the failing DMF supposed to stop when put in neutral? The sound I'm hearing is not constant, it only seems to pop randomly for a second or two then stops for a bit.

 

[SilverGhost]

Depending on how bad the DMF is the noise is always present or only at certain times, but when it is present its hard to mistake for anything else. Most of the time I see them it only rattles as the engine is coming to a stop (IE after I shut the ignition off).

Jason

 

[geoman]

my 09 dsg wagon is @ dcb automotive (brandon's shop) getting an awd conversion done to it & i'm having the dmf swapped out due to mileage & as a precaution. 430,000kms/267k miles on the odo with plenty of short-haul towing done near its limits. afaik, there isn't a more robust dmf available to handle the added strain of a dsg & gen 4 haldex combo so a fresh part & monitoring are in order.
prior to this work, within the last 15,000kms, I felt some harder/clunkier down-shifts & an occaisional pronounced, almost 'electrical', buzzing sound while idling cold. it disappeared once warm. we'll know how "far-gone" the stock dmf was upon its removal but that kind of mileage on it either engourages me or makes me want to run out & buy a lotto.

 

[Windjammer]

my 09 dsg wagon is @ dcb automotive (brandon's shop) getting an awd conversion done to it

Whoa now. You can't just drop in here with that statement & no link. We want to see some pictures.

 

[geoman]

Whoa now. You can't just drop in here with that statement & no link. We want to see some pictures.

just talked to Brandon(DCB automotive)a couple of days ago & he's agreed to snap some pics & post them as he goes thru the process. rear was out, spare wheel bin was cut & shallowed, & about to strip out interior for wire harnesses(aka, the "fun" part of the project). down the road I might add some tiggy springs for a DIY tdi alltrack!
one of the downsides to this, other than the uncertainty of this not having been done before in a dsg application(!), is I can kiss my Malone stage 2 goodbye. (hopefully Mark can work with me though)

 

[jtgott317]

So I've been having dsg issues since I purchased my 2006 jetta tdi last October and have finally figured it out! YEA!! When I bought this vehicle it would hit like crazy in all gears, and fault codes mechanical gear disengagement, pressure control valve 1 short to B+, loss of adaptation. When put in R, the instrument cluster would flash until I shut the vehicle off and back on then I would get R, and it started doing it in D, S mode never really worked, and a full throttle would red line at 5000RPM and never shift even in Tiptronic mode.
I started by dropping dsg and replacing the DMF. It seemed to help but I was still having issues. So I dropped it again and actually tore the dsg apart looking for some internal issues. What I found was the clutch pack was completely destroyed, several friction plates were in pieces, and hardly any grit left on any of them. So that got replaced and dsg put back together and life was good, for a week or so.
The issues with fault codes kept coming back, now the reason I didn't check out the mechatronics unit was because it was just replaced 20000 mile ago. But after checking wiring, grounds, replacing ecu (this vehicle has no TCU), and doing yet another fluid change and checking level, i was forced to pull the mech. Now I'm glad I did. I purchased a new mech unit and installed, the vehicle is running awesome, no hitting between gears, no limp mode, no lagging between gears. All the issues went away. Now being me, I like to know how things work and why they fail, so I tore into my old mech unit. First I tested all of the valves, all ohm'd perfect. Then I separated the two half and took a look at the internals. What I found was there are 12 small filters inside and 9 of the 12 were completely caked full of crap. It looked like the grit from the previous clutch pack. I cleaned the whole unit and all of the filters, made sure the valves were free and operating perfectly and put the unit all back together. I now have a spare mech unit that I am confident will work if needed.
So basically if anyone out there is having the same issues check out these little filters, honestly it wasn't really that bad to tear down and reassembly, take plenty of pics and notes when doing it and you'll be fine. I would also recommend doing this if you have worn clutch pack or a similar situation in which I had. Take care guys and gals and I hope this will help you if needed.

 

[meerschm]

That sounds like a project. would be nice if you ever get time to put the set of photos you took someplace with a few notes.

congrats on getting it all back together. how long did it take you?

 

[jtgott317]

That sounds like a project. would be nice if you ever get time to put the set of photos you took someplace with a few notes.

congrats on getting it all back together. how long did it take you?

I have a bunch of photos but cannot figure out how to put them on here. The job itself wasn't bad at all. I had a few stuck bolts, the previous owner had replaced the mech unit with a used one from somewhere but cranked down on the bolts instead of just torquing them to specified 5nm. All in all took me about 4 hrs taking my time being careful not to lose anything. That is taking old unit out, replacing with new, tearing down, cleaning, and putting back together.

 

[oilhammer]

I have one here too I saved. Came out of a transmission that I had to replace because its DMF blew apart in such a fantastic fashion that it blew chunks through the bellhousing and cracked the case and it lost most of its fluid.

I was going to take it apart just for fun. I will look to see if anything is in these little strainers you speak of.

 

[meerschm]

I have a bunch of photos but cannot figure out how to put them on here. The job itself wasn't bad at all. I had a few stuck bolts, the previous owner had replaced the mech unit with a used one from somewhere but cranked down on the bolts instead of just torquing them to specified 5nm. All in all took me about 4 hrs taking my time being careful not to lose anything. That is taking old unit out, replacing with new, tearing down, cleaning, and putting back together.

four hours seems like it is not that long. you must not have dropped too many parts.


http://forums.tdiclub.com/showthread.php?t=286691 has some info on posting photos.

for a bunch, if you have microsoft Word, it might be easier to make a word document, past the photos in, and save as a .pdf

then use the photo posting link to upload the .pdf.

 

[meerschm]

I was going to take it apart just for fun. .

You get all the cool toys.

 

[jtgott317]

You get all the cool toys.

Lol! Really there isn't a lot to drop if you are careful. There was one small bearing that dropped out and I didn't see it, but I was able to find where it went pretty quick.
And unfortunately I have a mac that my wife had to have, so no Word. Word

I think I might have figured the pic thing out
http://pics.tdiclub.com/showgallery.php?cat=500&ppuser=451789

yep, there are just a few on there now. I will add a bunch more here soon

 

[redbarron55]

Open your pictures on a separate instance of TDI forum.(click on the picture you want to show)
The picture expands and right click on it and save image address.
On the first instance where you are making the post click on the square yellow block with the mountains and past the address you copied there.
Click OK and the image is saved in the post (in a coded format to direct the browser to show it for the user, not you in your post block.

When I clicked on the big picture it did not work, but the thumbnail is what I right clicked on to paste, Lets see how it worked.
OOPS it didn't work for me then lets try again.
I clicked on the bigger picture and opened a bigger picture and now paste it in

Now let's see what happens.

 

[redbarron55]

This is the picture I found interesting (all of the rest as well.)

The trash in this filter could easily cause problems with the operation of the system.
I wonder where the full (?) flow filter happened to be for this?
Is this before the filter?
I would think the main filter would be before the mechatronics valve body.
I also wonder about where in the scheme of things the clutch filter is. I would think it was in front of the pump, but I have not looked at the diagrams closely as yet.

 

[El Dobro]

Someone here may still have a link to the DSG self study online. I'm pretty sure it showed an oil flow diagram.

 

[jtgott317]

Open your pictures on a separate instance of TDI forum.(click on the picture you want to show)
The picture expands and right click on it and save image address.
On the first instance where you are making the post click on the square yellow block with the mountains and past the address you copied there.
Click OK and the image is saved in the post (in a coded format to direct the browser to show it for the user, not you in your post block.

When I clicked on the big picture it did not work, but the thumbnail is what I right clicked on to paste, Lets see how it worked.
OOPS it didn't work for me then lets try again.
I clicked on the bigger picture and opened a bigger picture and now paste it in

Ok thanks. Sorry for that still new and trying to figure this out.

 

[jtgott317]

Someone here may still have a link to the DSG self study online. I'm pretty sure it showed an oil flow diagram.

http://www.evosoft.dk/diagrams/DSG_02E.pdf
Here was where I was getting a lot of my info from.

 

[oilhammer]

I just took mine apart, it was spotless inside. Its little screens are like new.