DSG Auto DMF Failing or Failures Thread

[sqyare]

Possible DMF failure, maybe DSG?

Hey everyone, I think my DMF is going bad. The engine has started to vibrate more at idle, than usual of course, and I am starting to hear an oscillating noise from the transmission area at idle and at highway speeds (usually around 75 mph). when the DSG shifts at LOW rpm I think I hear that pebble sound sometimes, its hard to tell because i also have the suspension creak. Its usually more apparent when everything is cold and I'm driving down a hill. In this vid is me driving down a pretty steep hill, with very little acceleration, the transmission seems to shift fine, but then the rpm just swings on the engine and I get a clunk, if anyone has any ideas before I bring it in that would be greatly appreciated . The theory is that the tranny and the flywheel will sync up at a certain speed when rolling down hills, usually only happens from 4th to 5th and mostly from 5th to 6th, when the two speeds are equal, so when the trans shifts, it grabs the DMF which is worn out and has play, so the engine slows down(quite rapidly) until it grabs, which causes it to spike back up. sorta like not rev matching during a downshift


https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?v=657775434255825

 

[sqyare]

bump*

 

[Hyde7278]

Getting ready to instal a new DMF this weekend. Luckily I have a lift and air at my house.

I know I'm going to get reamed for not buying my DMF from a forum vendor (try to get as much as possible from them)

I got the DMF from Rockauto. There cost with shipping to MI was $332.15. I did use a 5% off code but there price is still $50-60 less then the cheapest vendor. The DMF is the most up to date revision (it was MFG 9-23-13)

So If anyone is needing a DMF I would check them out.

 

[dlbogdan]

Maybe someone can help me out.
I'm having only a few of the symptoms presented here thus I'm not quite sure it's the DMF in my case.
The subject: Golf 5 GT DSG @ 93.000 km
At idle only while in P or N, I can hear while standing near a wall and with the window open a very faint and irregular fush fush ... fushh fush.. .. fush.... fush... that gets a bit worse when I turn on the AC.
I've noticed this first time a year ago and it doesn't seem to be getting worse over time (I've since done about 7.000 km)

Today as I was fooling around with VCDS, I've played a little with IDLE speed.
My main observation is that while increasing from 830, the "fush wush" sounds gets fainter and eventually disappears at about 860 RPM but the chair shudder increases (a bit too much for my taste).
If i get it lower than 830 the sounds gets worse and worse until about 790 where it changed pitch and got me panicked that something would break (yeah, it sounded awful), BUT at about 800 RPM even though the sound is worse, the char shudder is almost absent.
So again, as the IDLE goes up from default, the weird sound gets lower but the car shudders more and as it goes down the sounds gets worse and the car shudders less, bringing me no choice than to leave the IDLE at default.
Don't get me wrong, the shudder at default is barely noticeable as it is anyway. It's just almost still and calm as a forest lake at 810 RPM, which never was at 830, even as new.

I have no other symptoms. If i put it in Drive the sound disappears completely and there's no clunking noise during downshifts and every shift is as smooth as butter.
What gives?
Should I be concerned?
Thank you.

 

[dlbogdan]

Another thing.
The engine shut down is very noisy and cluttery when done from the the key. When done from VCDS by output test (ASV) the engine shuts down fine without shaking at all. (I guess my ASV is a tad slow).
I've also noticed that sometimes there's a clear rattle of about 1-2 seconds after starting the engine. ( Engine start, runs good for 1 second, rattle for 2 seconds then all good)

 

[TxAgsTDI]

The rattle after shut down is most likely the DMF. Once they start to fail, they get a little "floppy".

 

[dlbogdan]

I thought exactly the same but how do you explain the immaculate shutdown (i.e. no rattle) from VCDS then? (from Engine->Output Tests .... ASV or something like that).
I think there should be a mod involving this... Something like wiring the ASV to the key somehow so that the ASV will engage sooner and the engine stops much more smoothly, but that's another topic.

 

[TxAgsTDI]

Ya, I was thinking that as well; however, I had many days where the car started and shut down and you couldn't hear the DMF rattle. Also, my DMF rattle only made noise in Park or Neutral. In gear, never.

These things are weird little beasts.

 

[dlbogdan]

It should be noted that this car allegedly had it's DMF changed 25.000 km ago by the previous owner. I bought it last year from him.
Can I check somehow if it really has been changed?
Today I haven't heard any rattles at all, not even the hush hushing sounds. And it shifts like a dream.. since the day I bought her.
Also it should be noted that the car has now about 220 HP & 420 Nm @ 2100-3800 RPM, tuned stage 2 by myself and it's been like that for the last 5 months.
Even though the car has gobs of power, I rarely drive it @ wot. 80% of the time I drive "like a melody". I listen Jazz and push it very smooth with no hard acceleration & braking.

 

[pedro5604]

I had to replace the flywheel on 2009 jetta at around 125k miles. I always warm up my car at least 5minutes and while at idle and cold I notice a metal to metal friction noise. Took it to the stealership and confirmed that I needed it to replace the flywheel. Did some research and found out that the flywheel is a defective part on this 2009 model and the stealership wont warranty this. Took it to an Indy and cost me $800dls to replace it.

 

[redoverred]

Had the DMF replaced on my 2006 w/manual trans at 106K miles. Incidentally it didn't start to make noise until after the stealership replaced the timing belt at 105K. That was also an expensive month. $1000 for TB, then $1700 for DMF and new clutch assembly/clutch plate. Had to get it towed 130 miles to the dealer as well for the service - they thought they screwed up the timing belt and were going to be rebuilding my engine.

Made noise that sounded like marbles rolling in a coffee can when the car was idling. When you put in the clutch to engage the gear the sound disappeared. I have pictures of the shredded DMF and the damaged clutch plate, as well as a recording of the noise if someone wants to listen I can put it on youtube.

 

[MonsterTDI09]

Had the DMF replaced on my 2006 w/manual trans at 106K miles. Incidentally it didn't start to make noise until after the stealership replaced the timing belt at 105K. That was also an expensive month. $1000 for TB, then $1700 for DMF and new clutch assembly/clutch plate. Had to get it towed 130 miles to the dealer as well for the service - they thought they screwed up the timing belt and were going to be rebuilding my engine.

Made noise that sounded like marbles rolling in a coffee can when the car was idling. When you put in the clutch to engage the gear the sound disappeared. I have pictures of the shredded DMF and the damaged clutch plate, as well as a recording of the noise if someone wants to listen I can put it on youtube.

I would make sure the dealer replace all the TYY bolts for T/B and DMF and all of the hardware for T/B including the water pump with a brass wheel. The odds are low that they replace them.

 

[SilverGhost]

Pump with any kind of metal impeller is not OEM and dealers would rather stand behind a factory part.

The bolts on the other hand, you are probably right.

Jason


Sent from my iPhone

 

[dragnbaron]

Boom Revival!

I'm going all Billy Grahm here but this thread is in need of a little revival. I have an '06 TDI jetta that I have had these issues with for a while. I haven't read about anyone having the same timing as me, though. Over the last 8 months I've noticed my clutch pedal needs to be pushed lower and lower to the ground. Gradually my DMF has been making noises like everyone is stating but only the last 5 or 6 times I've driven it (7 miles each) has there been an issue. This last time I got hit HARD when i went to take it to a TDI guru. The thing ran great on the highway, no issues whatsoever but as soon as I'm in the lower gears it feels like I'm driving a horse and it's name is death.
Regardless, it's totally my flywheel which is a shame because I got the dealership to replace the clutch, trans, and motor about 60k miles ago. I DO NOT trust the dealership service at all, especially here in NJ. If i wanted a rim job I'd have gone to Atlantic City not VW service.
So, long story short, new clutch and flywheel and totally going to SMF. Now for the good part. 130k on the car and I have original brakes... Yes, that's right. Original pads, original rotors, original calipers. FInally time for a change of pads and rotors.

 

[oilhammer]

I'm going all Billy Grahm here but this thread is in need of a little revival. I have an '06 TDI jetta that I have had these issues with for a while. I haven't read about anyone having the same timing as me, though. Over the last 8 months I've noticed my clutch pedal needs to be pushed lower and lower to the ground. Gradually my DMF has been making noises like everyone is stating but only the last 5 or 6 times I've driven it (7 miles each) has there been an issue. This last time I got hit HARD when i went to take it to a TDI guru. The thing ran great on the highway, no issues whatsoever but as soon as I'm in the lower gears it feels like I'm driving a horse and it's name is death.
Regardless, it's totally my flywheel which is a shame because I got the dealership to replace the clutch, trans, and motor about 60k miles ago. I DO NOT trust the dealership service at all, especially here in NJ. If i wanted a rim job I'd have gone to Atlantic City not VW service.
So, long story short, new clutch and flywheel and totally going to SMF. Now for the good part. 130k on the car and I have original brakes... Yes, that's right. Original pads, original rotors, original calipers. FInally time for a change of pads and rotors.

This thread doesn't apply to your car.

 

[Marauderer]

What Oil Hammer said.

 

[walts62ragtop]

2006 Jetta TDI Failure

Sooooo, he's my short story. Took my car to a local well know Foreign Car mechanic for the 100k service. Car has 93k on it. Had the timing belt, etc, water pump, brake fluid, fuel filter, and trans fluid changed.
Before and after the service the tech. noticed a noise coming from the trans. It didn't go away after the service so they called the dealer. They said they've seen the clutch pack as well as the flywheels go bad. They ordered the clutch pack ($850) and took out the trans. The tech noticed tons of play in the flywheel. Called the dealer, looks like I'm now getting a new flywheel as well. ($850)
All said and done I'm looking at $3250 for the whole shooting match. Just paid the damn thing off two months ago. OUCH!!!!
FYI dealer said that the clutch pack and flywheel were upgraded parts.....for what that's worth. Hope it lasts longer than 93K!
Good luck to all who have this tranny!

 

[lsrryn]

so far so good from me. a 21 year old kid with a lead foot and a stage 2 jetta, stock injectors, stock turbo, stock everthing except my kitty ran away and a stage 2 colt cam. im sittin at 145k miles, had the dmf changed at 98k. 47k miles of hard(ish) driving highway and city. no metallic sound what-so-ever (knock on wood) the only thing i hear is the shutter from 2nd gear to 1st when i come to a stop, but by what other threads say im ASSUMING its normal... just waiting for funds for pd140 injectors and turbo to really put the dmf to the test.

 

[tdi1fun]

Still an issue with the DMF on the 10 model year I have 70k on the car and just confirmed with the dealer it is going bad. Hasent this issue been going on since 2006? Absoutly ridiculous I am in the process of going ape sh** on VW customer service. So far I have them committed to paying 75% but pushing for 100% and lifetime warrantee for the replacement I have a call with the regional service rep tomorrow. I worked for ZF as an engineer for 15 years and we would have never let a problem go this long. You never put a product on a car that your sure won't last more than 100k.

 

[tdiatlast]

tdi1fun: Sorry for your DMF failure. However, from extensive reading here, I don't believe this is as serious an issue in the 09>>>DSGs as in previous models.

 

[oilhammer]

Still an issue with the DMF on the 10 model year I have 70k on the car and just confirmed with the dealer it is going bad. Hasent this issue been going on since 2006? Absoutly ridiculous I am in the process of going ape sh** on VW customer service. So far I have them committed to paying 75% but pushing for 100% and lifetime warrantee for the replacement I have a call with the regional service rep tomorrow. I worked for ZF as an engineer for 15 years and we would have never let a problem go this long. You never put a product on a car that your sure won't last more than 100k.

And that there folks is the Friday morning laugh-your-ass-off statement of the day! Ironic, since one of the DMF manufacturers is Sachs... a division of ZF! ROTFLMAO!!!

 

[Spiked1Z]

Recently noticed my 2006 with 207k on the clock shakes while in park... down shifts aren't all that bad between 2nd and 1st... a lot smoother if I brake earlier and roll to an easy stop.. Other than that driving on the highway to and from work I haven't noticed any other vibrations or issues.. Hoping to have it last another few years before I decide whether to make this tdi new again, or get a new one. The fluid and filter change also seemed to help

 

[Ironman24]

I have a 2010 TDI DSG. The DMF appears to be going south with 118,000 on the odometer. I have the marbles in a can sound when driving around at parking lot speeds but no vibrations yet, got a nice pop that sounded like a spring coming apart when I parked it yesterday.

I am confused on which DMF I need to order. I have seen a couple of links in the previous threads. Just want to make sure I am getting the correct replacement. Will the 05-06 DMF from Luk work or do I need to get the OEM version? Obviously I want to get the most recent version that hopefully will last longer than this one did.

http://shopping.boraparts.com/product_info.php?cPath=21_28_137_170&products_id=287

http://shopping.boraparts.com/product_info.php?products_id=1095

 

[smokey24]

Hello. I have a 2010 vw gti 2.0 dsg. I just hit 37,000 miles. I'm having some problems. It's expensive long story. car has ko4 turbo on it and i had dsg fluid changed at 30k and had a wavetrac lsd installed at 35k and changed dsg fluid again. Drove car for 600 miles with new lsd in and all was great. Went to the race track and did one pass (no wheel hop or wheel hop) and came back to the starting line and went to let a little more air put of my tires. Was like ***. .. I couldn't get the car put of manual/drive mode. It was stuck. I had to use 2 hands to move the shifter out of drive. It felt like 1 long gear. It wasn't smooth and clicking into reverse, neutral drive like normal. Back up a few feet and pulled back forward and all seemed fine. Was odd. Let little more air out of tires and ran again. Car launched great. Cut a 1.8 60 ft and on shift to 4th gear check engine light started flashing. Coasted down the track. Turns out blew out cylinder 4. Melted the rings. Car would barely drive back to parking lot and barely move. It was like driving a manual transmission and revvingthe car to 3k and barely letting the clutch out and barely moving, eventually it grabbed a little. PUT New MOTOR in. Everything inside tranny looked brand new (says shop). Apparently cause car wasn't hitting the torque it's suppose to the tranny never engaged the clutch. Picked car up from shop and seemed fine. 15 miles on car on my way to work and go to take off from a stop and the car was all herky jerky. Like 1st day of driving a clutch and hopping all over. After a couple jerks it engages and goes. Coming to a stop at the next stop light it was like the clutch disengaged 1st gear and when I was almost completely stopped it engaged 1st gear again and jerked forwards. It's almost like the tcu doesn't know what to do. Do I go..do I stop. ..oh wait gooo. . Did a clutch adaption and it's better but not how it use to be. Still jerky. Drove to the coast today (90miles) didn't turn car off or anything. Parked car and went to back up and straighten out a little and car won't engage reverse. It's like I had it in neutral. Tried to put it between park and neutral and see if it was out of align for reverse and nothing. Can not go backwards. 30min later started the car and it went into reverse. It has happened 3 times to my fiance now. (Over the past 2 weeks) it usually goes into reverse eventually.
Any ideas out there? Cars only been to the race track 4 times and just hit 36,000 miles. :-(
Let me know if u have any ideas or advice. Thank you ahead of time.

 

[mis2]

Hi everone,
I read thru all 28 pages and I'm still little "stuck" - 2006 jetta TDI with 340,000 Km - DSG noises that indicate the DMF is going?????. Same rattle noise that everybody is talking about, but my only doing it when the engine is cold, in the morning. When the engine warms up the rattle / noise goes away. Is this possible for the DMF to start like that? or is it something else? - your help would be greatly appreciated.

 

[TonyJetta]

Mis2,
That is the tell-tale symptom that the dmf needs to be replaced.

Tony
Sent from my e-diesel fleet

 

[mis2]

Thank you TonyJetta, do you think this is just a starting issue, just a beginning, and it will get worst( lets say o.k to drive for a week or so) or it needs to be replaced right away?

 

[GreenLantern_TDI]

Starts as cold weather or engine issue. Then is all the time while idling in park. Then progresses to idling in drive at stop lights. How long it is ok to drive is a personal call ull have to make because if the DMF explodes it can ruin your DSG($4-6G). Best to replace right away.

 

[TonyJetta]

As greenlantern said, you'll have to judge it for yourself.
In my case, it souded like a scratching noise. 30 days later I changed it. I have not heard the noise since then. That was ~120k miles ago.
The failure mode varies wildly from annoying noise to the engine stoppeng the car violently.
My advice: replace it as soon as possible. This can become a safety issue.

Tony
Sent from my e-diesel fleet

 

[mis2]

Thanks a lot GreenLantern_TDI and TonyJetta - you guys are the best!!!