Car won't start troubleshooting

lovetogo

Member
Joined
Nov 20, 2017
Location
georgetown IN
TDI
2006 Jetta TDI
did you ever

HERE Is a thread where a guy with a 2006 had a fuel filter problem and HERE is his first thread about the same problem.
It turns out a check valve in the filter head failed, blocking fuel flow through the filter.
This is what the failed part looks like:

You can see a white thing in there just to the left of center. This is the check valve that failed. I'm trying to get a picture of an unfailed one as well as more information on this.
Did you ever get to look at a good check valve. do you think the white thing, is the flag showing its bad. I'm thinking it is . I have ordered a new filter housing if it dose turn out that the white thing is not showing I'll post .
 

lovetogo

Member
Joined
Nov 20, 2017
Location
georgetown IN
TDI
2006 Jetta TDI
Did you ever get to look at a good check valve. do you think the white thing, is the flag showing its bad. I'm thinking it is . I have ordered a new filter housing if it dose turn out that the white thing is not showing I'll post .
Thanks so very much for all help on my X problem! I did the bypass and it started right up. The new filter housing is in the mail. Once it's in my hands Ill post photo if the lill white thing is not showing . So on the next problem, No power steering , with red wheel dash icon on . This car has a very nice sound system ;)
 

Chyasgar

New member
Joined
Jan 7, 2018
Location
Minnesota
TDI
2001 Jetta TDI
Stuck

Hi,
I’ve read through this entire thread and I’m still at a loss on where I should turn.
We’re looking for a new car currently and planning on donating this one to a local tech college. I’d like to get it to start so I don’t have to tow it.
Here’s my situation.

2001 VW Jetta TDI Automatic. Replaced starter in April, (3rd starter on the vehicle). As it’s gotten very cold up here in MN, the starter was giving me problems once the temperature was below about 20 or the car sat too long. The starter would crank for a few turns and the just zing like the solenoid was the only thing working. Essentially if the starter was under a difficult load, it failed internally. I was hoping to replace the car soon so I was just trying to limp it along.

Saturday it was very cold in the morning and the car barely started. I had to crank and turn the key off and back on and then it would turn the engine a few rounds. Needless to say the engine finally started but it took going back and forth for 8 minutes or so. I’m sure putting undo stress on the whole system.

I took off and was 10 minutes into my drive when the vehicle went into limp mode, not uncommon as the EGR valve leaks and it occasionally does this. I typically put it into neutral while driving, shut it off and turn it back on and I’m good to go. Except when I did it this time, the vehicle didn’t restart. I drifted over the side of the road and was stalled. It didn’t click, crank or make any noise. I had it towed home to my garage.

I just assumed the starter finally went, so I took the 8 month old starter in for a warranty replacement. They didn’t replace it because when they tested it, it worked but they weren’t putting the starter under a load and that’s when I had problems. I explained it was failing before today, but alright I wanted to get this project over with. I bought a new one anyways. Replaced it when I got home and still nothing.
No clicking, no solenoid sound nothing.

Battery is about a month old, fully charged.

I first though maybe it was the ignition switch folks have mentioned. Easy enough, the local parts store had a switch so I ran and picked it up and replaced it. Still nothing.
Lights come on, including glow plug lights.

I took the dash apart to the 13th Auxiliary Relay panel. I flipped it around and used my multi meter to test the power coming in and out the Park/neutral relay (position 11, relay 175) and it seems to be working best I can tell and you can hear an audible click. Relay 109 has been updated with the grey version and I’m assuming I can rule that out because the glow plug light comes on.

Using my Multimeter I measured the voltage on the starter from the main cable directly from the battery at 12.4. The small wire that plugs into the starter with the clip, has nothing or very little voltage until I turn the key where it jumps to 12.4 or so. I’m assuming this is what signals the starter to engage?
I also used a piece of wire to jump from the main cable to the solenoid and the solenoid spins. So it seems the new starter is good as well.

I removed and cleaned both grounds below the battery and on transmission. No luck.

I read something about the EGR valve possibly being stuck open but I manually moved it back and forth and it’s closed.

Anyways, I’m hoping someone with much more knowledge then me sees something obvious. The first time I tested if the small wire going to the starter was getting power when the key was turned, my wife misunderstood me and wasn’t actually turning it to start when I was testing it. So I spent most of Saturday thinking I was tracing down something breaking the current in between. I couldn’t find anything and retested the small wire and realized I was getting 12.4 to it when the key was turned.

When the key is turned, there is voltage drop from 12.4-12.5 down to 11.5 on the main starter cable. I’m trying to figure out if that means something, scratching my head on where the voltage is going since the starter isn’t moving.

I thought maybe the cable was bad so I connected a jumper cable from the positive on the battery to the large cable connection on the starter, no luck. I did the same from the ground on the battery to the knob that sticks out of the end of the starter thinking it was a ground issue, no effect.

I have power to the main wire on the starter and when I turn the key, the little wire gets 12.4-12.5. Shouldn’t the starter be engaging?

Any ideas would be much appreciated. I live 40 miles from the school I’d like to donate the car to for their auto mechanic program but I’d rather not have the towing expense. Plus, for my own sanity... I really want to solve this. I've had a lot of good years with this car and want to go out on a good note!

Thanks in advance! This forum has helped me a lot over the years but this is the first time I've had to post.

Thanks for reading!

-Chris
 
Last edited:

whitedog

Veteran Member
Joined
Jul 12, 2004
Location
Bend, Oregon
TDI
2004 Jetta that I fill by myself
Chris, try voltage drop from the battery post to the connector. It should be close to zero. If that's good, then go to the bottom big terminal of the starter and test again.
 

Chyasgar

New member
Joined
Jan 7, 2018
Location
Minnesota
TDI
2001 Jetta TDI
Whitedog,

Just so I'm clear and not screwing this up.

You're saying measure voltage drop from the positive battery post to the connector (terminal 50 plug)? I'm assuming I'm just unplugging the plug to test it and turning the key?

Then Positive battery post to the main big terminal on the starter that goes directly to the battery?

Sorry, I haven't dealt much with electrical issues in my self taught mechanical career.

Thank you.

Chris
 

AndyBees

Top Post Dawg
Joined
May 27, 2003
Location
Southeast Kentucky
TDI
Silver 2003 Jetta TDI, Silver 2000 Jetta TDI (sold), '84 Vanagon with '02 ALH engine
Chyasgar, the Solenoid serves two purposes.

1. It engages the starter gear to the flywheel gear (the Solenoid is a big coil that becomes a magnet when 12 volts is applied).

2. It is a contact switch to provide 12 volts to the starter through the big wire.

I think Whitedog wants you to check voltage at the Solenoid on the big wire from the battery... which should be zero drop from the battery. Then, if that is okay, check voltage on the other side of the Solenoid at the bare wire going down to the Starter. This is to confirm that the contact switch is working. It's located on the bottom side of the Solenoid next to the Starter and is quite short! It may or may not have insulation on it. But, the nut is there where it is attached to the Solenoid.

Hope this helps!
 

whitedog

Veteran Member
Joined
Jul 12, 2004
Location
Bend, Oregon
TDI
2004 Jetta that I fill by myself
Start at the battery and check voltage drop across every connection and conductor. Check from the battery to the battery cable connector. This checks for corrosion between the battery terminals and the battery cable connector. You have already checked the wire from the battery to the starter, now keep going down stream across every connection and conductor. Starter cable end to post on starter, stater post to starter post. Starter post to starter motor cable.
 

Chyasgar

New member
Joined
Jan 7, 2018
Location
Minnesota
TDI
2001 Jetta TDI
I measured all the connections and it seems that there isn't a voltage drop difference. 11.8 with someone holding the key down.

I tried measuring the ground side of things to see if i found any abnormalities and I did not seem to. I noticed when I checked the ground from the block to the starter, I had to have the probes just right to get a steady reading.

I already cleaned the ground cables in both the obvious places under the battery and on the transmission.

Does this possible point to a bad ground cable in your opinions?

Thanks,

Chris
 

Chyasgar

New member
Joined
Jan 7, 2018
Location
Minnesota
TDI
2001 Jetta TDI
Hi everyone,

Checking back in to see if anyone has any other ideas
On my dilemma. As i mentioned, I have power to both wires on the starter when I should and voltage drop seems to be fine.

The ground seems like it might be a little touchy. Other than under battery and on the transmission block, would there be any other grounds that could be causing a no crank?

Thanks,

Chris
 

tonyweiss11

Active member
Joined
Nov 13, 2013
Location
Kansas
TDI
2001 Jetta TDI
Hi everyone,

I have another question about cold weather driving. Yesterday it was a high of about 10 here and got in the negatives two nights ago and last night. I leave my car in our shop usually when its that cold out so its somewhat warmer than outside. I started up drove to work (about an hour drive) parked my car and left it outside for about 9-10 hours. I came back and it started right up first try. I drove it back home another hour (50 miles or so), parked it in the driveway shut it off went inside for 15 minutes to change clothes, came back out to drive it out to our shop for the night and it wouldn't start.

After pushing it into the garage and letting it heat up awhile and getting a vacuum pump on the fuel lines I got it to start but I couldn't figure out why this would happen after driving for so long and having it start just fine after sitting in 10 degree weather and wind all day. I run anti gel additive in the winter and have never had a gel problem yet this year and it has been a very cold winter. Could of been bad diesel but this tank I had already driven about 500 miles when this happened with no other issues. Any ideas?

Thanks,
Tony
 

Richy_T

Veteran Member
Joined
Apr 18, 2007
Location
Dickson, TN
TDI
2000 Jetta
Thanks for this thread. I have had my car for about 10 years now and it has always been a bit of a slow start in the cold. It would only really refuse to start when it was 20 or below but I'd usually remember to plug in the frost heater and when it was cold, it was too cold to look at and when it was warm, it was out-of-sight, out-of-mind.

Well, I finally got to it and just replaced the thing. It's night and day. Even a warm start you can tell it's a much easier start. It used to be rrr-rrr-fire but now it's almost instantaneous. Now I want a really cold day again to try it out.
 

whitedog

Veteran Member
Joined
Jul 12, 2004
Location
Bend, Oregon
TDI
2004 Jetta that I fill by myself
Thanks for this thread. I have had my car for about 10 years now and it has always been a bit of a slow start in the cold. It would only really refuse to start when it was 20 or below but I'd usually remember to plug in the frost heater and when it was cold, it was too cold to look at and when it was warm, it was out-of-sight, out-of-mind.

Well, I finally got to it and just replaced the thing. It's night and day. Even a warm start you can tell it's a much easier start. It used to be rrr-rrr-fire but now it's almost instantaneous. Now I want a really cold day again to try it out.
What did you replace?
 

hypno

Member
Joined
Aug 17, 2016
Location
NM
TDI
2004 Beetle 1.9 TDI, 2003 Beetle 1.9 TDI
is there a possibility that dirty or thick oil would keep a 2004 1.9 tdi beetle from starting ?
 

hypno

Member
Joined
Aug 17, 2016
Location
NM
TDI
2004 Beetle 1.9 TDI, 2003 Beetle 1.9 TDI
still won't start

It has been a full year since I have bee
n unable to start my 2004 VW New beetle 1.9 tdi. I purchased the wag scan software and the only engine codes that the soft ware bring up are a couple of short to ground codes. I have tried every thing thai I know of with no success. Yesterday I decided to use an OBDI scanner and the following codes popped up,

1. 0216 - injection timing control circuit malfunction
2. 0228 - pedal position sensor/switch C circuit high input
3. 0245 - Turbo/sup Wastegate solenoid A low
4. 0403 - EGR flow circuit malfunction.

Vag codes are:
16612 - throttle pedal position sensor (G79) p0228
19561 - valve for intake manifold flap (N239)
16629 - solenoid valve for boost pressure control (N75)
17849 - EGR valve (P1141) open circuit or short to ground
16600 - Commencement of injection valve (N108) p0216 circuit malfunction

Ok anybody, any ideas as to where I begin. Any help will be appreciated.
agapitot@hotmail.com
Thanks
 

whitedog

Veteran Member
Joined
Jul 12, 2004
Location
Bend, Oregon
TDI
2004 Jetta that I fill by myself
By wag scan, do you mean VAG COM?

Also, which engine are you working on? Is it an ALH with an injection pump on the engine and steel lines going to the injectors or is it a BEW ?
 

whitedog

Veteran Member
Joined
Jul 12, 2004
Location
Bend, Oregon
TDI
2004 Jetta that I fill by myself
Charge the battery fully, write down the codes then clear them and it give another try. See what comes back.

Tell us about why it was parked. Did it die? Did you do any testing then? What were the conditions when it was last running?

Right now the only thing we know is that it won't start and it has some codes - we don't know anything about when it stopped running. Maybe you have already posted about it and if so it would be nice if you could link us to a previous post.

We're really flying blind tight now.
 

hypno

Member
Joined
Aug 17, 2016
Location
NM
TDI
2004 Beetle 1.9 TDI, 2003 Beetle 1.9 TDI
will give all info on next post. veh just wouldnt stare one day weather in NM isnt cold enough to make glo plugs problemmatic, veh turns over but will not start. has fuel at all injectors. have changed out109
 

hypno

Member
Joined
Aug 17, 2016
Location
NM
TDI
2004 Beetle 1.9 TDI, 2003 Beetle 1.9 TDI
Vehicle was running great and suddenly would not start. Have followed all suggested tips, checked anti shudder valve, fuel injectors, New battery changed out th 109 relay . Used a jumper from battery to the fuel shutoff valve . Checked all fuses .
 

whitedog

Veteran Member
Joined
Jul 12, 2004
Location
Bend, Oregon
TDI
2004 Jetta that I fill by myself
Was it running then died and would not start, or you shut it down one day and it wouldn't start?

If you look at the no start thread, which situation fits yours the best?
 

SilverGhost

Veteran Member
Joined
Mar 25, 2005
Location
Back in So Flo - St Lucie
TDI
'05 Golf - totaled :(, wife's '13 Beetle - buy back, TDIless
Checked wiring diagram and all of those listed components go back through fuse S234 (10a #34) which is fed by relay J317 (109). Note: fuses S232 and S243 are also fed by J317 (S243 feeds clutch and one side of brake switch and coolant glow plugs, S232 feeds ECM and quantity adjuster). Power to J317 is from stud 500 (big red cable bolted to bottom of fuse/relay panel under dash) and should be marked as "30". ECM grounds the relay. S229 provides ignition power to ECM to wake up.

I would work back from fuse S234 - see if 12V is getting from fuse to each component. Also power from that fuse goes through T6 (brown bulk head connector behind cluster). It is possible some corrosion is in that connection.

Jason
 

murf1956

New member
Joined
Mar 22, 2017
Location
Portland OR
TDI
2006 new beetle TDI 75k miles
2006 TDI new beetle wont start-suspect the battery is dead

Suspect dead battery. Roadside assistant guy could not help me. I think my lights ere on all night. I went to the library and checked out 3 manuals one is chiltons vw new beetle repair years 1998-2005 I also got Bentley Publishers service manual for 2005 and 2006 includes 1.9L TDI the 3rd book is European electrical systems also Bentley publishers by author is Bob Seigle. I am liking through them now. Seems I have to be careful taking battery out due to the anti theft radio and possible bad remote starter for keyless. I think I can use a different power source to keep juice during the exchange.
 
Last edited:

UhOh

Top Post Dawg
Joined
Dec 24, 2014
Location
PNW
TDI
2000 & 2003 Golf GLS
Vehicle was running great and suddenly would not start. Have followed all suggested tips, checked anti shudder valve, fuel injectors, New battery changed out th 109 relay . Used a jumper from battery to the fuel shutoff valve . Checked all fuses .
Check this and that but don't say HOW/METHOD. One can get fuel out the injectors but not get F-U-E-L sufficient to start. Please qualify your observations/conclusions.

Fuel
Timing
Air

Everything else can be dead to the world but if you have those three elements in proper play the engine has no other option than to run (exception would be that the compression is totally trashed, but unless we're missing some part of the story here it's not likely an engine's compression can decay on its own, from just sitting). SO....

ONE of those THREE things is insufficient. "Air" is easy- ASV open? "Fuel" is sufficient if it's spurting from a loosened injector top with the line loosened while cranking. "Timing" can only be corrupted via a mechanical "event" (anyone near the car during an "event" will KNOW of the event), sticking internals, though here the engine should still attempt to fire up (general timing is OK, but fuel delivery is a bit uncoordinated). Generally only one thing is being responsible (if everything had been OK), so one only needs to find the ONE thing.

In no "'event" then the most likely suspect is fueling. Treat it like you have air in the fuel lines. If you have a lot it will take a lot of patience to get it our; it will seems like it's not really air because one thinks that the air "should be out by now!" but it won't be. At some point, allowing the started to cool down and the battery to be sufficiently recharged, the engine will have to make some effort at ignition; if that happens then you just keep on with the air purge. IF you suspect bad fuel (or gelling) then use a separate fuel contained to feed your IP (and return lines).

I've had instances in which I would SWEAR that there was no way I could have air in the lines, that with all the efforts at bleeding the engine MUST sputter, BUT not so. Because there was no other reason I could think of I kept on bleeding (and cussing). And lo and behold the engine would FINALLY cough to life.
 

hypno

Member
Joined
Aug 17, 2016
Location
NM
TDI
2004 Beetle 1.9 TDI, 2003 Beetle 1.9 TDI
Ok I'm back after a long while. I am sorry but at 81 knuckle busting takes its toll. I posted that I had a 2004 vw 1.9 t do beetle. After researching I found it was actually a 2003 VW Beetle 1.9 tdi with a manual transmission. Since I last postedthe vehicle has refused to start. Mileage is 200k, it did have timing belt and water pump replaced at 141k miles. I have fuel at all injectors , replaced 109,checked all fuses two which are located near the 109. Vehicle turns over but will not start.
 

BobnOH

not-a-mechanic
Joined
May 29, 2004
Location
central Ohio
TDI
New Beetle 2003 manual
Simple interweb stuff- Air could be restricted or a big pipe could be loose. Diesel engines do need a strong battery (try jump start if it's low). Verify timing belt did not break or jump. etc.
 

Tdijarhead

Top Post Dawg
Joined
Nov 10, 2013
Location
Lawrenceville PA
TDI
2003 TDI Jetta Daughters Car, 2001 TDI Beetle, Daughters car, 2005 Golf TDI Mine, all 5 spds
Continuing on with what Bob said, the Beetle has a snorkel leading to the air box, make sure a critter family hasn't taken up residence there and plugged the air supply.
 
Top