02S 6 speed conversion into 02J case

caffeine

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I'm looking at doing this swap into my mk4 BEW. Any reason to go with the TKR over the TDZ, or vice versa? Also, I tried doing a Google search but couldn't find this free program you mentioned. Could you please link it?

I really appreciate all of the research and information you have posted, thank you!
The program is called kw1281test. You also need something to edit the EEPROM with after you read it with that program. There are some cluster XDFs for TunerPro on the NefMoto forums, and I believe DashDumpEdit can also flip the bit.
 

Voluble

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The program is called kw1281test. You also need something to edit the EEPROM with after you read it with that program. There are some cluster XDFs for TunerPro on the NefMoto forums, and I believe DashDumpEdit can also flip the bit.
Awesome, thank you!
 

pedroYUL

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My BEW wagon is now with my brother in another state, but if I recall correctly, that wagon did not have a speed sensor in the transmission, the speed was taken from the ABS sensors already.

Not sure if that is a wagon thing only tho.
 

J_dude

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@Voluble
 

caffeine

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My BEW wagon is now with my brother in another state, but if I recall correctly, that wagon did not have a speed sensor in the transmission, the speed was taken from the ABS sensors already.

Not sure if that is a wagon thing only tho.
That wasn't a factory thing. Only some 4motion or DSG cars used that setting in the cluster EEPROM; I expect that's why it exists in the first place.
 

pedroYUL

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That wasn't a factory thing. Only some 4motion or DSG cars used that setting in the cluster EEPROM; I expect that's why it exists in the first place.
Mine is a manual. Only thing to disconnect to do the clutch was the reverse light switch.
 

oilhammer

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There are just too many to list....
BEW 02J cars most certainly do have the VSS in the transmission. That gearbox is identical to the one the ALHs got, aside from a very slightly taller ratio, worth about 150 RPM or so at 80 MPH. I swapped a 2005 J-wagon gearbox and shifter box/cables into my 1999.5 Golf. Plug 'n play.
 

pedroYUL

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Again, I can't check since I don't have it close, but nothing was swapped, and I don't recall having to disconnect anything else besides the reverse switch.

But maybe I don't recall correctly.
 

caffeine

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Again, I can't check since I don't have it close, but nothing was swapped, and I don't recall having to disconnect anything else besides the reverse switch.

But maybe I don't recall correctly.
Also literally just sold a 02J this morning out of an '05 BEW Wagon. Speed sensor w/pigtail still on the transmission.
 

GlowBugTDI

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Again, I can't check since I don't have it close, but nothing was swapped, and I don't recall having to disconnect anything else besides the reverse switch.

But maybe I don't recall correctly.
It's atop the differential at the back of the bell housing. Smaller black cap that gets plugged into.
 

Matt-98AHU

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I'm looking at doing this swap into my mk4 BEW. Any reason to go with the TKR over the TDZ, or vice versa? Also, I tried doing a Google search but couldn't find this free program you mentioned. Could you please link it?

I really appreciate all of the research and information you have posted, thank you!
Someone linked to gmenemous' thread with the program. Then just need to buy a cheap VAG KKL cable, make sure you know what com port it's on, or maybe even manually change it to use a com port between 1 and 4 to ensure compatibility with the command prompt.

I just finished doing this job on a 2003 Jetta wagon, picked up VSS via CAN. Made a video about it:


I also talk about the challenges with the shift cable bracket. I used a Mk5 bracket on this swap, but I don't like how it's pulling on the cable for the side to side/gate selection, plus I had to hack almost an inch off the cable itself so it wouldn't bottom out in the cable end before reaching correct alignment. Next time I do this swap, wholesale bolting the 02S into a car as it sits, I'll probably fabricate brackets to relocate bolt holes to allow the use of the original Mk4 bracket that secures the cables to the top of the transmission.

As for which specific transmission to buy, either is fine. The gearing is identical. A part of me wants to say leave the rarer TDZ for those of us who need/want to do the bellhousing swap, since its pinion shaft doesn't need to be machined down to do the swap.

Might also be that the bigger bearing the TKR gets for the short end of the pinion shaft does add a little extra sturdiness to it.

For this car that I did the wholesale swap into without taking the transmission apart to swap bellhousings, I did opt for a TKR thinking along those lines... But realistically, so long as you're keeping the right amount of oil in it, either will serve you well.

Edit to also add: the video does touch briefly on my weirdo choice in specific shift levers and cable ends. I actually really like the 2000-2001 model year levers that use the "ball style" connection and cable ends. They are a bit more of a pain to separate/service, but they provide vastly better shift feel than the later pin style. The bushings in the cable ends have next to no give, because they don't need to. They can articulate every which way easily on their own, so the bushing doesn't need to allow this softness to allow the cable end to pivot at a slightly different angle than the straight pin would allow for.

You can't buy those early style levers new anymore, you can only find them used on 2000-2001 model year cars, but the combination of the more precise feeling of that setup added with the fact that the internal mechanism in the 02S makes for a shorter and more precise-feeling throw, it's one of the best shift feels you'll get from any VW ever.

Fortunately, the ball-style cable ends are at least still available. Might have something to do with the fact that Lamborghini Gallardos and Audi R8s used them throughout their entire production run. Yes, that's right, fancy supercars have 1J0 part number early Mk4 shift cable ends :LOL:
 
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Matt-98AHU

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I should add to the above that I have tried this hack on my 2001 Golf, with the VSS sensor unplugged, and it does *not* work on that car.

Maybe it's a different byte address on the early clusters, or those early clusters don't support it at all... or maybe the older Mk20 ABS module doesn't send the specific message on the CAN bus the cluster is looking for to enable that to work. I really don't know.

So, once again, for anything with immo II and older cluster, the bellhousing swap is the way to go to ensure you retain a working vehicle speed input and cruise control.

2002 and up with immo III cluster and Mk60 ABS module all seem to take to this hack no problem, so you can indeed wholesale just bolt the transmission in as-is without all the extra work I went through.

At some point, I may try an Immo III cluster in my '01 Golf and hack it, just to see if this does indeed work with the Mk20 ABS module or not.
 

Nuje

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I really liked your explanation of the workings of kw1281test, too.
I don't know how many times I've *read* what the syntax is for sending commands, but *hearing* you explain it...suddenly the light bulb went on.
(My brain works funny I guess.)

Anyway - nice work as always, and thanks for the video. (Maybe trim the kw1281test part of it and post that in @gmenounos's thread, too - just in case there are more auditory-preferred-learners like me out there :) ).
 

caffeine

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I should add to the above that I have tried this hack on my 2001 Golf, with the VSS sensor unplugged, and it does *not* work on that car.

Maybe it's a different byte address on the early clusters, or those early clusters don't support it at all... or maybe the older Mk20 ABS module doesn't send the specific message on the CAN bus the cluster is looking for to enable that to work. I really don't know.

So, once again, for anything with immo II and older cluster, the bellhousing swap is the way to go to ensure you retain a working vehicle speed input and cruise control.

2002 and up with immo III cluster and Mk60 ABS module all seem to take to this hack no problem, so you can indeed wholesale just bolt the transmission in as-is without all the extra work I went through.

At some point, I may try an Immo III cluster in my '01 Golf and hack it, just to see if this does indeed work with the Mk20 ABS module or not.
If you're trying to use the same byte on an IMMO2 cluster, it 100% won't work. Depending on the specific cluster, the bit structure can be similar or completely different than on IMMO3 clusters. I don't know off the top of my head if this bit exists at all on IMMO2 clusters, but it's very easy to retrofit an IMMO3 cluster to test its function on older Mk4s. I have an IMMO3 cluster in my '00 Jetta right now.
 

Matt-98AHU

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If you're trying to use the same byte on an IMMO2 cluster, it 100% won't work. Depending on the specific cluster, the bit structure can be similar or completely different than on IMMO3 clusters. I don't know off the top of my head if this bit exists at all on IMMO2 clusters, but it's very easy to retrofit an IMMO3 cluster to test its function on older Mk4s. I have an IMMO3 cluster in my '00 Jetta right now.
I definitely know it's possible to put an immo III cluster into an immo II car, but have you done the VSS via CAN hack on the 2000 Jetta with the newer cluster and verified that specific hack does indeed work on the earlier cars??
 

caffeine

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I definitely know it's possible to put an immo III cluster into an immo II car, but have you done the VSS via CAN hack on the 2000 Jetta with the newer cluster and verified that specific hack does indeed work on the earlier cars??
I have not, but it's something I could test fairly easily.
 

Matt-98AHU

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I really liked your explanation of the workings of kw1281test, too.
I don't know how many times I've *read* what the syntax is for sending commands, but *hearing* you explain it...suddenly the light bulb went on.
(My brain works funny I guess.)

Anyway - nice work as always, and thanks for the video. (Maybe trim the kw1281test part of it and post that in @gmenounos's thread, too - just in case there are more auditory-preferred-learners like me out there :) ).
Good illustration of how sensitive these are when you get the baud rate wrong, too 😬

My brain couldn't remember the 10400... From memory I started doing 9600, then used the arrow to see how I got a successful result previously, and it apparently worked that one time at 10600, but refused to work on any subsequent attempts.

Then consulted the built-in syntax help, oh duh... it's 10400, not 10600. derp. 😅

Gotta remember multiples of 16, Matt. Sheesh... Like I could do that mental math anyway.
 

caffeine

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Good illustration of how sensitive these are when you get the baud rate wrong, too 😬

My brain couldn't remember the 10400... From memory I started doing 9600, then used the arrow to see how I got a successful result previously, and it apparently worked that one time at 10600, but refused to work on any subsequent attempts.

Then consulted the built-in syntax help, oh duh... it's 10400, not 10600. derp. 😅

Gotta remember multiples of 16, Matt. Sheesh... Like I could do that mental math anyway.
I wrote myself a bunch of very simple batch scripts to make it much easier to use. Don't have to remember any of that.
 

Nuje

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I wrote myself a bunch of very simple batch scripts to make it much easier to use. Don't have to remember any of that.
Care to share those?
(I understand the basic principle behind them - basically like keyboard shortcuts I think(?) - but I don't even know how to build/execute those, particularly in Windows.
 

caffeine

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Care to share those?
(I understand the basic principle behind them - basically like keyboard shortcuts I think(?) - but I don't even know how to build/execute those, particularly in Windows.
I probably could. They're on my tuning laptop which never connects to the internet so it's a bit of a pain. Its VERY simple though. Batch scripts are a remnant from the MS-DOS days. Basically, the file ends in .bat (which makes it executable in Windows/DOS), and the command prompt interprets each line in the .bat file as if it were entered directly on the command prompt. Add "@echo off" to the beginning of each script to hide the actual commands when executing the script. You can create them in any text editor that saves the document in pure text (no MS Word for example at least in default output). Or if you're already on the command prompt, and, say, you just executed a command with kw1281test that you will want to repeat in the future, just enter "echo [insert kw1281test command here] > repeat.bat" which will create a batch script called repeat.bat in the current directory with [insert kw1281test command here] as its contents. Those are the basics, a google search will reveal a whole world of extra things you can do. I, for example, also created a batch script which I can double click on on my desktop, and it opens a command prompt right in the kw1281test directory.

I've long toyed with the idea of writing my own GUI for kw1281test, as I think that would bring usability to heaps more people, but it's never much of a priority and I have lots of other stuff going on right now.
 

Nuje

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All this time....since at least 1988, I'd think....I had no idea that the .bat in "autoexec.bat" indicated "batch script" (even though I knew that it executed a series of command line prompts). 🤦‍♂️

Thanks for the basic overview - that's great for getting me going.
I can just use a text editor now to create eepromREAD.bat, eepromWRITE.bat to at least have the basic syntax and baud rate get entered correctly.
 

79TA7.6

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I probably could.
I would also be interested if you get the time to share these. Maybe in the kw1281test thread? Mostly curious to see what you are batching I guess. I know each different module, for different types and years of cars, will have different addresses and different bytes to change.
 

caffeine

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I would also be interested if you get the time to share these. Maybe in the kw1281test thread? Mostly curious to see what you are batching I guess. I know each different module, for different types and years of cars, will have different addresses and different bytes to change.
Batch files for reading/writing the cluster EEPROM. Separate for Beetle clusters since they use a different command. Reading/writing comfort window config, performing output tests etc. For certain operations, the same commands work almost ubiquitously.
 

Matt-98AHU

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Also, I was able to swap a newer cluster from 2002-2003 into my 2000 Jetta and I was able to read the abs speed too. My newer Jetta wagon's 2001 and 2003 was able to read abs speed too with the switch of the eeprom code.
Found my answer! Just had to go back and read this early reply.

It seems the 2000-2001 cars can indeed pick up VSS via CAN if you install the later cluster, despite also having the older Mk20 ABS module.

Sorry 1999.5 guys.. your cars were always a bit of a bastard child 😅

Great to know for 2000+ guys who are looking for an upgrade without going through the whole rebuild process I did. But again, I don't regret doing it for my Golf. I have improved oiling and potentially better diff bearings with preload set very carefully, plus have a limited slip now. 2000-2001 guys just need to upgrade to an immo III cluster is all.
 

turbocharged798

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You can put an immo3 cluster in a 99.5 car, just takes a bit of work but has been done.

IMO an LSD is one of the best upgrades you can make to one of these cars. Yes, its expensive and laborious but the end result is a massive upgrade to the one tire hopper that they do stock.
 

wonneber

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I probably could. They're on my tuning laptop which never connects to the internet so it's a bit of a pain. Its VERY simple though. Batch scripts are a remnant from the MS-DOS days.
** parts deleted **
I still use some scripts for things when needed but not very often.
DOS is still in Windy 11 though it's Command Prompt now.
 
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