Warranty Ripoff By CUSTOMER

[Franko6]

I got a call a few weeks ago.

"Hey, the brand-new ALH serpentine belt tensioner that you sold me broke."

That is a first... Being a reasonable vendor, I want to make the customer happy and I send a new tensioner out. He wants it overnighted, and I say if he pays for the shipment, then ok, I'll do that.

I ask for him to, "Please send the old tensioner back. I want a good look at it."

So, the broken tensioner shows up and I get a peek at it...



There are two short bolts and one long bolt that are supposed to hold the tensioner to the accessory bracket. They are blind holes going into the accessory bracket. I'm going to guess he stripped out the threads for the long bolt. So, I can only guess what he did... But those 'thread' in the hole are actually JB Weld. He's gluing the thing together with JB Weld??


Apparently, there is a wad of JB Weld in the through hole for the long bolt. When I first asked about it, he said he, "made some threads", which I took to mean he used JB Weld in the stripped hole.

Then, the story changes and he used a heli-coil to fix the hole and used JB Weld to keep the heli-coil in.

The lack of competence is showing.... you don't need JB Weld to hold in a heli-coil. Something really stinks.

I stated that the faulty repair voids any warranty on the part. The customer refused to pay for the part. He is now an EX customer.

This is the new policy. ANY items requested for warranty will be reviewed for damages BEFORE exchange, OR the replacement part will be PAID FOR, BEFORE SHIPMENT. I don't like getting RIPPED OFF!

I've been very fair with my dealings on the Club. Up to this time when I've warranted a part, and it's not been often, I have accepted the testimony of the customer. This one is too hokey. No more of that.

 

[speedfreeq]

Ah! The proverbial anvil, fresh from the sandpit...

Bummer that somebody associated with the board would pull something like that.

Sent from my Droid using Tapatalk

 

[Ol'Rattler]

Ya, that is why I question some folks advocating that everyone should do their own maintenance. You can skip the most important part of your 10K mile service by changing oil from the top!!!

The mechanical principles involved in something as simple as what you described are beyond some folks comprehension and always will be..........

 

[DustyB]

That's a shame Frank, the customer took advantage of your generosity. Most places make you send in the item causing you down time, but it's an understandable policy.

 

[TDIJetta99]

Damn.. I hate hearing when someone pulls crap like that.. It spoils it for the good nature folks out there..

On a side note, I've seen many new tensioners snap right where that one did due to a locked up alternator pulley.. Most of the old tensioners have a bad damper so there isn't a lot of stress on that part of the casting when the pulley stops de-clutching.. With a nice shiny new tensioner (and strong damper) the force on the casting is too much and it snaps after sitting there idling for a little while... It's more common from what I've seen with those that have light flywheels..

 

[cleaver]

I really hate it when people ruin it for others; but, I also believe in Karma...

Customers have the rights to post crap about mechanics/gurus/parts suppliers, why don't above mentioned people post the crap about customers. I know it is bordering on ethics and professionalism but you whould not be hung out to dry (whether the part was $10 or $1000).

Post his name, and let the club encourage him to pay. If he is held accountable and others know this, maybe others will not follow in his footsteps. If he leaves the forums because of this, well, the forum didn't really want him here anyways....my 2 cents....

 

[Corsair]

man, that is really something else. no shame. no conscience.

 

[Abacus]

That does suck, and I completely understand your policy. A lot of places have a policy that you pay for the new replacement part, and if the old part is found to be defective, then your money is credited.

I would also post the name of the person, since I HATE people who rip others off and want to know who to stay clear of.

 

[AndyBees]

Frank I'm sorry for the bad experience there. And, that's good new policy!

I did a Clutch Job for member back last spring. As part of the deal, I promised him a nice pressure washed engine. Well, that pressure wash trashed his rebuilt Alt that he had installed about 6 months earlier. Before he come to pickup the car, I gave him a call and explained what happened. He said that Alt still had warranty and would bring a replacement. Which he did just that.

I was ready for the replacement and put it on in no time. In the process of taking off the old Alt I noticed the Tensioner only had two bolts in it. I explained the situation to him and he said that he was aware and to not worry about it. I tried several different bolts from the "bolt box" without any luck. Seems the threads were gone in the bracket!

Anyway, the guy was straight-up honest with me all the way........Thanks Rick if you happen to read this!

 

[Franko6]

Damn.. I hate hearing when someone pulls crap like that.. It spoils it for the good nature folks out there..

On a side note, I've seen many new tensioners snap right where that one did due to a locked up alternator pulley.. Most of the old tensioners have a bad damper so there isn't a lot of stress on that part of the casting when the pulley stops de-clutching.. With a nice shiny new tensioner (and strong damper) the force on the casting is too much and it snaps after sitting there idling for a little while... It's more common from what I've seen with those that have light flywheels..

That is exactly what I told him when I called him back. 'Check the clutching pulley'. He didn't have a clue about that... someone else will probably get that sale, as I bet you are right; he needs a alternator pulley.

If he doesn't and snaps it off again, I don't expect him to be telling me...

But the business with JB WELD.. that really fries me. Let's call it, "Modified".

 

[TonyJetta]

Frank,
Sorry to hear about the 'members' bad dealings and the impact to you. I've been dealing with you for almost 4 years now, and wouldn't come close to considering doing something like that to ANYONE!

In the end, it takes one person to mess it up for everyone else!

Keep your chin up...the rest of us here, have your back!

Tony

 

[nate379]

The hole got stripped and he repaired it with a heli-coil. I have used JB Weld to hold them in before. Either that or Loc-Tite. We do quite a bit of heli-coil installs with our repairs at work (I work on bomb and missile systems).

What he did was fine. BUT the bracket broke in 2 pieces. I'm not seeing how repairing a stripped hole broke the bracket?? Can you please explain?

 

[20IndigoBlue02]

The hole got stripped and he repaired it with a heli-coil. I have used JB Weld to hold them in before. Either that or Loc-Tite. We do quite a bit of heli-coil installs with our repairs at work (I work on bomb and missile systems).

What he did was fine. BUT the bracket broke in 2 pieces. I'm not seeing how repairing a stripped hole broke the bracket?? Can you please explain?

The issue I have is the customer damaging a part and turning around claiming it was defective.

What did the customer do to strip the threading in the first place (which required the helicoil?)

 

[Lug_Nut]

Post his name,....

Franko6, I'm pleased, because it reaffirms my belief in your professional integrity, that you've taken the ethical higher road and not publicly called out this member by name.
Your recourse is unfortunately to do precisely as you say, to institute a policy of denying refund until after you've had opportunity to inspect the goods or service that you've provided.

 

[nate379]

Well there is that part too but to me it doesn't seem related. Sometimes you have to make due with the parts you have and a simple repair like a helicoil is fine. Maybe the metal it was cast with was defective and couldn't hold the threads well and that's also why it broke in 2 pieces?

The issue I have is the customer damaging a part and turning around claiming it was defective.

What did the customer do to strip the threading in the first place (which required the helicoil?)

 

[loganbmx4gt]

Thanks for ruining it for the rest of us, whoever you are!

 

[Franko6]

Nate,

First thing, those are not threads in the casting. It's excess JB Weld that was around the threads of the bolt that is supposed to be going through a clearance hole. The threads are supposed to be in the accessory bracket.

This is a matter of some simple questions that I expect to go unanswered by the customer. Was the accessory bracket stripped before the tensioner was installed? It seems so. There is a good chance that the tensioner went bad from a failed alternator clutching pulley. That is logical. If the clutching pulley tore up the first tensioner and/or pulled the threads, there is little chance for the new tensioner to work very well or very long. The customer should have noted the belt vibration. It would have been obvious.

Also, the break in the casting was clean, with no inclusions or voids. That is the first thing I inspected for.

Last thing, the customer did not know what torque to use on the bolt. 15 ft lbs is not enough. I began to think there was a reason he used a low torque, like he used to short a heli-coil and it was pulling out. Heli-coils in aluminum should be twice the depth of the bolt diameter, minimum. I tend to use 2.5x if there is room.

In this case, it's a matter of too many questions. First, there shouldn't be JB Weld clear up into the tensioner assembly, if your goal was to lock in a thread coil. Second, the only way that tensioner would have broken was for the belt to be slapping around, due to a bad alternator pulley or idler pulley. If those items are bad, it's the customer's responsibility to quality check the repair to see it is working correctly. That is a big FAIL, which apparently, I get to pay for.

I learned from my experience. I hope he learned something from his.

 

[Birdman]

I got a call a few weeks ago.

"Hey, the brand-new ALH serpentine belt tensioner that you sold me broke."

That is a first... Being a reasonable vendor, I want to make the customer happy and I send a new tensioner out. He wants it overnighted, and I say if he pays for the shipment, then ok, I'll do that.

I ask for him to, "Please send the old tensioner back. I want a good look at it."

So, the broken tensioner shows up and I get a peek at it...



There are two short bolts and one long bolt that are supposed to hold the tensioner to the accessory bracket. They are blind holes going into the accessory bracket. I'm going to guess he stripped out the threads for the long bolt. So, I can only guess what he did... But those 'thread' in the hole are actually JB Weld. He's gluing the thing together with JB Weld??


Apparently, there is a wad of JB Weld in the through hole for the long bolt. When I first asked about it, he said he, "made some threads", which I took to mean he used JB Weld in the stripped hole.

Then, the story changes and he used a heli-coil to fix the hole and used JB Weld to keep the heli-coil in.

The lack of competence is showing.... you don't need JB Weld to hold in a heli-coil. Something really stinks.

I stated that the faulty repair voids any warranty on the part. The customer refused to pay for the part. He is now an EX customer.

This is the new policy. ANY items requested for warranty will be reviewed for damages BEFORE exchange, OR the replacement part will be PAID FOR, BEFORE SHIPMENT. I don't like getting RIPPED OFF!

I've been very fair with my dealings on the Club. Up to this time when I've warranted a part, and it's not been often, I have accepted the testimony of the customer. This one is too hokey. No more of that.

When I worked at World Impex that was always the policy. You paid for the new part until we got the old part back and could inspect it, You would not believe some of the stuff people would send us. One part that came back looked like it had over 100,000 miles on it and most likely came out of a wrecking yard. Most shops deal this way these days. To many crooks out there after an easy buck,

 

[ryanp]

Damn.. I hate hearing when someone pulls crap like that.. It spoils it for the good nature folks out there..

On a side note, I've seen many new tensioners snap right where that one did due to a locked up alternator pulley.. Most of the old tensioners have a bad damper so there isn't a lot of stress on that part of the casting when the pulley stops de-clutching.. With a nice shiny new tensioner (and strong damper) the force on the casting is too much and it snaps after sitting there idling for a little while... It's more common from what I've seen with those that have light flywheels..

I've seen the broken tensioner on cars with stuck pulleys, one had a rebuilt alt with a solid pulley and the owner had fitted 3 genuine tensioners before coming to me!

I also adopt the same policy for expensive returns (which rarely happen) but most of the time i just send a new part FOC and dont ask to see the old one as overseas shipping is expensive. If the customer is legit they wont have a problem with paying for a replacement, if they trust me that is!!

 

[cevans]

My 2 cents:

Getting ripped off/cheated/lied to by customers is part of our daily life. It happens, but we as professionals should not post complaints or stories about customers - ever.

 

[axnels2]

My 2 cents:

Getting ripped off/cheated/lied to by customers is part of our daily life. It happens, but we as professionals should not post complaints or stories about customers - ever.

I think the OP is just explaining and documenting why he is changing his return policy. Nothing wrong with that...

 

[cleaver]

I understand professionalism all too well. But it seems that the overpriviledged believe it is their right to steal what they can from retailers/online stores/backyard mechanics, ect. (you get the picture).

By letting them get away with it, you are costing me more money (as you will raise the prices to cover the shrinkage in the long run.

Yes, it makes you out to be the good guy, and the next buyer is punished by higher prices and crappier service (ie. having to send the part back before before receiving a replacement.)

I am not singling out you or anyone else in particular, more of a society issue overall...

If I screwed a dealer over, I would expect to be publicly outted, just as I would "out" a dealer if he screwed me over.

But to each is own, and I do not have to worry about customers anymore as I got out of the retail crapfest - so it is easier for me to complain...

 

[VWSHPFRMN]

Frank
Another way to protect yourself is charge the customers credit card for the replacement part untill you can determine if the part is truly defective. You can fax a form stating the policy and have them sign it . I bought a set of LED headlamps from ECS tunning and one headlamp was filling with water. They charged my credit card and sent me a replacement. When they recieved the defective part, they credited my card back.
This may help with down time.

 

[Plus 3 Golfer]

My 2 cents:

Getting ripped off/cheated/lied to by customers is part of our daily life. It happens, but we as professionals should not post complaints or stories about customers - ever.

Glad you (a vendor) said it but that was my thoughts exactly.

A business should never air there complaints publicly about a customer. I will not frequent a business that does such. It's a personal matter between the business and customer.

 

[TDIJetta99]

He's not calling anyone out by name. Just venting and explaining his reason for changing his return policy

 

[MikeS_18]

I'm with Corey on this one. I'm not condoning anything, but it's part of the business of sales. Just like it's part of the consumer business to have to deal with vendors who are not looking out for your best interests. Business's should have a warranty reserve built into their pricing model. Sorry to swim upstream, but if we're giving opinions, there's mine.

 

[Plus 3 Golfer]

He's not calling anyone out by name. Just venting and explaining his reason for changing his return policy

Same principle whether you name the customer or not. Believe me I don't condone ripping off people but I won't do buisness with somebody that trashes customers. There are always two sides to the story.

 

[FlyTDI Guy]

It's always about balancing risk. In business, the risk always goes to the customer. If bought at the local AP store, inspection and exchange can happen together. If you didn't bring the faulty part in, you'd have to buy another one until you did. Internet or phone sales are usually structured the same.

 

[borachris]

Same principle whether you name the customer or not. Believe me I don't condone ripping off people but I won't do buisness with somebody that trashes customers. There are always two sides to the story.

I bet the douche that has the other side to this story won't come forward to tell it though, you know why??

Cos he knows he's a lying scumbag

 

[nate379]

Fax? What is this 1990?

Who the heck owns a fax anymore?

Frank
. You can fax a form stating the policy and have them sign it .