Volkswagen's Clean Air Act violations on 2009+ TDIs spark huge recall, investigations

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ericy

Veteran Member
Joined
Aug 24, 2004
Location
Rehoboth Beach, DE
TDI
2015 Golf TDI (wife's car)
Want to know who's hacked off? People who bought a used 2014 TDi in the past year. Congrats, your 2 year old car is going to have to be retrofitted with a system of unknown reliability when you could have paid a couple grand more for in a 2015 on a car that was actually designed for it.
How about those of us who bought a *NEW* 2014 TDI in the past year. Last November the dealers were still clearing out the 2014's from the lots - that's when I got mine. But at the time, the dealers were eager to make deals, and there was no sign of the GSW yet.

What is even funnier is that my wife had bought a 2015 a few months earlier. I was surprised by the fill port for SCR - I hadn't know that they had added this to this car. And the 2014 of course didn't have it. My wife still complains about having a smaller fuel tank :rolleyes:. The old days of 800-mile tanks on the ALH are long gone.
 

Paulinski

Veteran Member
Joined
Apr 14, 2013
Location
Brantford, Ontaro
TDI
09 Jetta Wagon Highline
So all the thousands of others are selling something too? :rolleyes:

I don't "make a living bad mouthing" anything. I make a living providing good quality service.

And I have 100% faith that I will be proven right, once again. Check back here two years from now. You can quote this post in your apology to me.

And as a newb who joined this year, please feel free to read back the one and a half DECADES of dealer service fail threads and posts on this site. It isn't just me making something up, chief.
That is exactly why we have trusted mechanics list.

I'm saddened my gov is trying to force me to have this done to my car. :(
 

Jimmy Coconuts

Veteran Member
Joined
Jul 27, 2015
Location
Henderson NV
TDI
2009 JSW, 2010 Jetta, 2011 Q7 Prestige, 2012 A3 Premium, 2013 A3 Premium Plus, 2014 Beetle, 2015 Jetta
As an engineer at a diesel engine company (IN NO WAY AFFILIATED WITH VW), I completely agree. There is absolutely zero chance that a couple of rogue engineers did this on their own. By and large, the people who would be writing and implementing software are young engineers with probably less than ~7 yrs experience. You mean to tell me they're going to bypass their management and risk going to jail? Come on...
Thanks for speaking up. :)
 

laughingbasho

Well-known member
Joined
Jun 18, 2013
Location
Merion, PA
TDI
2011 Golf TDI, Golf TDI, 2013 6-MT - turned in for buyback Jetta TDI, 2012, DSG - sold - 1985 MB 300D, “Banana Boat”
Moderator, please flag this

You make your living bad mouthing VW dealer service, and this post is a reflection of that.
This post is not civil, and it's an attack on a small business and the individual who owns it. I enjoy this site because the community is friendly, helpful, tolerent of different points of view. Let's get back to that. Thanks!
 

MykieA

Active member
Joined
Sep 22, 2015
Location
New Jersey
TDI
2015 Golf TSI
VW site.......buybacks

Has anyone tried the VW site and "chatted" with a VW representative about a buyback for your Gen 1 vehicle? I mean have you asked them to buy your automobile back? To see what they offer.
 

owr084

Top Post Dawg
Joined
Oct 20, 2004
Location
Northern Virginia (NoVA)
TDI
Passat GLS, 2005, Stonehenge Gray
Not necessarily: It depends on how much VW offers in a buyback. I'd only want the buyback price reduced $1400/year from my original retail purchase cost. And I'd also want VW to reimburse me for the state sales tax I had to pay when I bought the Jetta (which is over $2000). Why should I have to pay sales tax twice in two or so years because VW's fraud forced me to buy another car too soon? If VW doesn't give a buyback offer that satisfies customers then the bad PR will continue and angry customers won't be back for more.
Did you deduct that sales tax on your Federal tax return? If so and VW refunds it, you will be liable to pay back the Feds.
 

dieseldorf

Top Post Dawg
Joined
Oct 11, 2000
Location
MA
TDI
ex- 1996 wagon, ex-2000 Jetta
On topic:

VoA said:
“In Volkswagen’s recent ongoing discussions with the regulators, we described to the EPA and CARB that our emissions control strategy also included a software feature that should be disclosed to and approved by them as an auxiliary emissions control device (“AECD”) in connection with the certification process. As a result, we have withdrawn the application for certification of our model year 2016 vehicles. We are working with the agencies to continue the certification process.”

.....
 

Shife

Veteran Member
Joined
May 8, 2015
Location
Michigan
TDI
2015 GSW SE DSG White/Beige
This post is not civil, and it's an attack on a small business and the individual who owns it. I enjoy this site because the community is friendly, helpful, tolerent of different points of view. Let's get back to that. Thanks!
Flag away. I see nothing inappropriate about it. He's an independent shop that uses this site to attract business. I'm sure he's very good. But let's not pretend like his disdain for dealer service departments isn't at least partially related to his source of income.

If I was in his position, I'd be using this site and thread to use this situation to drum up increased business as well.
 

kydsid

Veteran Member
Joined
Apr 18, 2012
Location
Texas
TDI
2012 Passat
Where do you guys get this stuff?

There will be training. Every service department has staff of varied levels of skill with different specialties. Most dealers will handle this just fine. When GM recalled the Northstar engines due to the crankcase leakage, the fix was to pull the subframe, drop the engine and trans sitting on the subframe onto a special stand, remove the engine, completely disassemble the bottom half of the engine, drill the crankcase bolt holes out using a special jig, insert special helicoils, and then reassemble the whole thing. This is far, far more complicated than what is being proposed for VW. Our normal Heavy Engine guy spent about a year doing this non stop. It was a wet dream for the service department. Even at warranty labor rates it was a huge boost to our labor rates. Every service campaign/recall is.

There will be the occasional screw up. It's unavoidable. However the only reason for it to be a problem is if the consumer is apathetic and doesn't make them aware an issue needs to be addressed. You have tools at your disposal to make sure things are done to your satisfaction. You have the service manager at the dealer, his warranty rep, VW's customer care network, and if those fail you have the very powerful authority of your State regulatory board. If something isn't done to your satisfaction and you don't use the tools available to get it resolved you can blame nobody but yourself.

Watching internet pontificators opine on what goes on in a shop when they've clearly never ran one is quite entertaining.

Actually I've seen both GM and VW and now people in key positions to know the differences that matter. Ive said it before Ill say it again. Id have more faith in having my TDI serviced or repaired at a GM delaer than at a VW dealer. So i appreciate your comment and do agree in spirit but IMO VWOA has woefully inadequate service department mandates and training requirements compared to their competitors.
 

BenC-60

Member
Joined
Aug 10, 2015
Location
Ohio
TDI
2011 Golf
Has anyone tried the VW site and "chatted" with a VW representative about a buyback for your Gen 1 vehicle? I mean have you asked them to buy your automobile back? To see what they offer.
I believe one member has worked out a trade in, not quite sure who/if it even worked, but I don't believe anyone has arranged a buyback. You could always try and report back, I'm sure a lot of people, including me, will want to hear what happens. Good luck if you do pursue it.
 

bhtooefr

TDIClub Enthusiast, ToofTek Inventor
Joined
Oct 16, 2005
Location
Newark, OH
TDI
None
It's worth noting that based on Horn's testimony, the dealers have individually been given money to address this.

Buybacks aren't happening on a corporate level, and they're only going to happen in the form of favorable trade-ins on a dealer level (they're going to use the money to make sure you remain a customer - if you don't want a VW after this, a multi-brand dealer may be your best bet).

That said, I still think everyone is better off hanging on to their cars.
 

Cayman

Veteran Member
Joined
Mar 23, 2013
Location
Bothell, WA
TDI
Jetta
As reported several pages back, my local dealer low balled me with a trade in offer roughly $5k below pre-dieselgate value. I was thinking a straight out swap for a hybrid would be a grand gesture, if not perhaps a small gap to be covered. $17k is a huge gap. I debadged the car and will keep it I guess
 

turbobrick240

Top Post Dawg
Joined
Nov 18, 2014
Location
maine
TDI
2011 vw golf tdi(gone to greener pastures), 2001 ford f250 powerstroke
As reported several pages back, my local dealer low balled me with a trade in offer roughly $5k below pre-dieselgate value. I was thinking a straight out swap for a hybrid would be a grand gesture, if not perhaps a small gap to be covered. $17k is a huge gap. I debadged the car and will keep it I guess
It's not hard for unscrupulous dealers to sense a panicked buyer/seller and take advantage.
 

MykieA

Active member
Joined
Sep 22, 2015
Location
New Jersey
TDI
2015 Golf TSI
VW website.

I just spoke with them, I love driving this car, I'm just disgusted with the TDI fiasco, I have too many things to say about it all, I will spare you. So, I inquired with them about buying it back. They are saying "It's something that we can look into for you!" "Do you have your VIN handy?" "Has there been any repairs or damage?" "Can I have a phone number to reach you at?" I answered all questions. Then, they said: "I will get back to you by the close of business on Monday" I said; "Are you uncertain of your decision in buybacks" They said; "Not necessarily it's just that these type of requests need to be thoroughly reviewed"
 

TCBinaflash

Veteran Member
Joined
Nov 27, 2011
Location
Chagrin Falls, OH
TDI
2012 Golf TDI
So, I've been obsessed over this whole debacle. But I'm done now.

A little about me and my relationship with VW. My last 5 car purchases were VW. I've only owned 6 cars.

I loved the 01 Jetta GLS that saved my life in a freeway accident. After that I promised to stay with VW.

I got into diesel when I traded in my 08 Rabbit for the 12 Golf TDI.

So far my experience with the diesel has 2 sides. Car is awesome. Not boring to drive, looks great and saves me money on fuel at the same time. What else could I want? Its perfect.

The other side is the mechanicals. Since about 2 months of ownership I've been worried about HPFP, EGR, DPF, Intercooler, Diesel quality in the States, etc. etc. - My worries were somewhat put to ease since I replaced the EGR and DPF already :cool: (read: sarcasm)

While I have been an avid VW promoter I don't know what to do. My experience with this car has been NERVE WRACKING.

As a loyal customer I feel like I've been put through the wringer on this car and now the whole emissions thing - which I honestly don't want to care about. Which has led me to a revelation about my personal needs in a car

I have zero faith in this car mechanically based on my experience and others in avoiding huge repairs on expensive components over the life of the vehicle. And now, VW is going to add further engineering to retrofit this cash bomb of a car.

I don't need Volkswagen or my car to complicate my life any more than it already is.

I think I'm just gonna park the TDI and pick up a new vehicle to hold me over until the dust settles.

Sorry for the rant but you guys are the only ones that fully understand what owner experience in these cars is like. Just needed to vent.:(
 

Victor-Whiskey

Veteran Member
Joined
Aug 26, 2010
Location
NEK VT
TDI
2015 Jetta TDI DSG
Has anyone tried the VW site and "chatted" with a VW representative about a buyback for your Gen 1 vehicle? I mean have you asked them to buy your automobile back? To see what they offer.
I don't think I'd do a buyback unless it was generous. However; for curiosity sake, I emailed VW Customer Care 10/3 and have received no response.
 
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PlaneCrazy

Top Post Dawg
Joined
Jan 3, 2000
Location
Province of Quebec, Canada
TDI
Gone...
Not necessarily: It depends on how much VW offers in a buyback. I'd only want the buyback price reduced $1400/year from my original retail purchase cost. And I'd also want VW to reimburse me for the state sales tax I had to pay when I bought the Jetta (which is over $2000). Why should I have to pay sales tax twice in two or so years because VW's fraud forced me to buy another car too soon? If VW doesn't give a buyback offer that satisfies customers then the bad PR will continue and angry customers won't be back for more.
I've said before: a "buyback" = a trade-in.

It may be an "enhanced" trade-in (giving a value greater than current market value, incentives, etc.), but it remains a trade-in.

Consider for example you have a 3 y.o. LNT car for which you still owe 2 years, and were planning to keep for 2-5 years beyond the loan.

The trade-in may be "enhanced" enough to cover the amount outstanding on your loan and maybe put a small down payment on the next car. But if you're like most folks and need a loan to buy a new car, you're on the hook for 4-5 more years of payments instead of having a 2-5 year "payment break". If you're a "pay cash" kind of guy like me, you may not be in a position to buy another car now without getting a loan (and in my case, being retired, with a very low income as I minimize withdrawals from my retirement account, I may not even qualify for a car loan).

I'm sorry but the consumer does NOT come out ahead in that game. On the other hand VW gets to swindle more money out of you on a new car and keep their sales figures up, VW finance gets to make a few more bucks off of you by charging some interest, etc.

Trust me I've played the trade-too-often-for-my-own-good game for too long. And I explored a VW buyback on my 2011 long before this crisis, when I had a power loss problem at WOT (like when overtaking) that VW couldn't figure out. The "buyback" was just a trade-in lowballed to the low end of the Black Book market value towards a new VW. I signed for a new '13 GTI... then had a sanity check and backed off at the last minute.

From a strictly financial point of view, leaving out the environmental factor as one cannot put a price on one's environmental consciousness, the choices for LNT owners, assuming VW offers a trade-... oops "buyback" scheme seem to be:

1) go for the recall to retrofit the car with an SCR system and hold your breath that the dealer doesn't totally FUBAR the job (many will...)

2) go for the buyback and be on the hook for many more years of car payments

3) refuse to let the dealer touch the car, and drive it until the wheels fall off, or at least until it has depreciated sufficiently that a 20% loss of market value is peanuts.

For the moment I fall into no. 3. I have no environmental worries... I live in a rural area and rarely drive our TDI in the city, I feel the NOx will dissipate to a low enough concentration before it can do any harm; and there are other ways to offset the harm: drive less, take my TSI when we go to the city, slow down to the speed limit, drive more gently...
 

JBell

Veteran Member
Joined
Jun 19, 2012
Location
None
TDI
None
Okay, I have been scouring this giant thread trying to get a question answered.
I just purchased a 2015 Jetta TDI (averaging 51 mpg on mostly highway miles)
For anyone who knows, (seems like some smart folks on this site)
What appears to be the fix for my particular year & car? And, what kind of MPG am I about to lose after the fix?
Thanks in advance

Software flash.
 

dhectorg

Veteran Member
Joined
Mar 5, 2012
Location
Ohio
TDI
2012 Golf TDI w/ Tech Package
You have already given them your money. You are not supporting them any more. Just don't buy more VW if you are so hurt. By getting rid of it now you will just loose more money. You think your car is dirty. Why don't you look at the exhaust pipe of any turbocharged car that is street legal. It is cover with black sooth but it is legal. BTW VW is a huge organization and it was only handfull of people that new about the fraud. Good luck with your Mazda. I hope you are not planning to keep it for long. Within my relatives we have history of 4 of them. Expect to see rust after 3 years and the car falling apart after 10.
Keep on apologizing for them...maybe they'll put you on the payroll.
 

peterbilt1101

New member
Joined
Oct 1, 2015
Location
USA
TDI
2011 Jetta Sportwagen TDI
I just spoke with them, I love driving this car, I'm just disgusted with the TDI fiasco, I have too many things to say about it all, I will spare you. So, I inquired with them about buying it back. They are saying "It's something that we can look into for you!" "Do you have your VIN handy?" "Has there been any repairs or damage?" "Can I have a phone number to reach you at?" I answered all questions. Then, they said: "I will get back to you by the close of business on Monday" I said; "Are you uncertain of your decision in buybacks" They said; "Not necessarily it's just that these type of requests need to be thoroughly reviewed"
I'll withhold my rant as well, but I would assume I largely agree with you. This debacle has really soured me on VW, which is a shame. Can you share who you talked to? I'd be interested in barking up this tree as well and seeing where it goes...
 

Grievous Angel

Veteran Member
Joined
Oct 22, 2011
Location
Tuscaloosa, AL
TDI
2012 Jetta TDI (traded after Diesel-Gate)
"BTW VW is a huge organization and it was only handfull of people that new about the fraud. "

If you believe that...
 

jimbo1mcm

Veteran Member
Joined
Jan 5, 2015
Location
CT USA
TDI
2015 SEL TDI PREMIUM Blue 2015 SEL TDI PREMIUM's Silver and Blue
Oil Hammer Flogging!!

Flag away. I see nothing inappropriate about it. He's an independent shop that uses this site to attract business. I'm sure he's very good. But let's not pretend like his disdain for dealer service departments isn't at least partially related to his source of income.

If I was in his position, I'd be using this site and thread to use this situation to drum up increased business as well.
I don't know this forum member but, to me, he sounds like a responsible mechanic who takes pride in his work, uses a torque wrench, and has seen and dislikes shoddy work. It begins with personal professional pride in whatever job you are doing. Like everyone else, I have seen the effects of poor workmanship in service visits. Cut him some slack.
 

Grievous Angel

Veteran Member
Joined
Oct 22, 2011
Location
Tuscaloosa, AL
TDI
2012 Jetta TDI (traded after Diesel-Gate)
So far my experience with the diesel has 2 sides. Car is awesome. Not boring to drive, looks great and saves me money on fuel at the same time. What else could I want? Its perfect.

The other side is the mechanicals. Since about 2 months of ownership I've been worried about HPFP, EGR, DPF, Intercooler, Diesel quality in the States, etc. etc. - My worries were somewhat put to ease since I replaced the EGR and DPF already :cool: (read: sarcasm)

While I have been an avid VW promoter I don't know what to do. My experience with this car has been NERVE WRACKING.

As a loyal customer I feel like I've been put through the wringer on this car and now the whole emissions thing - which I honestly don't want to care about. Which has led me to a revelation about my personal needs in a car

I have zero faith in this car mechanically based on my experience and others in avoiding huge repairs on expensive components over the life of the vehicle. And now, VW is going to add further engineering to retrofit this cash bomb of a car.

I don't need Volkswagen or my car to complicate my life any more than it already is.
Feel like I'm looking in a mirror. People aren't just waking up because of diesel-gate. It's just the straw . . or maybe the light pole . .that broke the camel's back.

I remember thinking buying it--"I know It'll be more expensive and less reliable but I'm at a point where I can afford it . . I want a TDI dammit." Well, I was right. And I can still afford it. I just didn't quite appreciate the scale of a potential HPFP failure, emissions failure, etc. I rolled with it and had every intention of taking my chances, hoping I'd be the guy to get 200k+ out of it.

Then this story broke. Car was gone 4 days later.

I know I'm not part of the family any more and I hope you guys don't mind me hanging around. I was part of it, and am interested in how this turns out. Maybe it's like watching a car crash--or hoping I made the right decision (ie, they offer an outstanding buyback program later).
 
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