Timing Belt Interval

[Jlew1993]

Good Morrow all, I have a 2013 Sportwagen CJAA. I was recently shivered out of my timbers by a friend who is a big TDI guy about my timing belt. He has me to beleive im sitting on a ticking time bomb, which probably isn't far off, but i wanted some opinions....I'm at 102k miles, and obviously 10 years old. I'm not by any means putting the timing belt on the back burner, but i though i could do it closer to 115K. I already have parts from kerma to change the timing belt. Should i make this happen post-haste? Or do i have time? Also it was suggested to change the HPFP as well....i was under the impression you could observe your fuel during filter changed for particles and base the change on that. Just asking, not trying to be right or wrong, genuinely just want my TDI to last forever. Thanks for any input! Any one from Utah?

 

[oilhammer]

I've never seen one of these show any signs of distress even long after the interval, I'd not worry about it at all. I'd run it out to 120k, and it will be perfectly fine.

 

[Jlew1993]

"I've never seen one of these show any signs of distress even long after the interval, I'd not worry about it at all. I'd run it out to 120k, and it will be perfectly fine."

Thank you! That takes a lot of pressure off me haha...

 

[borninabus]

mine is sitting @ 135k and i'm not worried in the least about it.
apparently, the CJAA is the only VW engine that doesn't snap timing belts like they're going out of style. YMMV.

 

[oilhammer]

Nor do the ALH, the BEW, the BRM, the BHW, the AWP, the AWM, the AZG, the AVH, the BEV, the BPY, the BPG.... (I could go on....). All of those engines typically go the prescribed interval without issue. Timing belt failure is generally from some other reason. Improper service being chief among them, with outright neglect next in line.

The AEB engine is the only one in recent history I've known to be problematic, and there was an upgrade for those.

 

[Jlew1993]

So what about the fuel pump? Do this warrant changing? I've yet to see any flaking in my fuel filter. Is it just a good practice? I've also heard of people putting 2 stroke oil or some type of additive to prevent lubrication issues.

 

[jokila]

Nor do the ALH, the BEW, the BRM, the BHW, the AWP, the AWM, the AZG, the AVH, the BEV, the BPY, the BPG.... (I could go on....). All of those engines typically go the prescribed interval without issue. Timing belt failure is generally from some other reason. Improper service being chief among them, with outright neglect next in line.

The AEB engine is the only one in recent history I've known to be problematic, and there was an upgrade for those.

Is the AEB a 1.8T in the Passat that had a prescribed 110K interval but would barely make it to 105K and kaput? Drivetrain warranty was 100K so VW would/could squeeze out of paying for the big fix.

 

[oilhammer]

It was in the Audi A4 first (1996), then the 1998-00 Passats, yes. Many failed before 70k. They were almost as bad as the early 16v 1.8L engines back in the late '80s.... VAG had a "check at 60k" thing then, but most broke at 45k There was a shortage of intake valves back then!

 

[Lug_Nut]

Nor do the ALH, .... (I could go on....). ...typically go the prescribed interval without issue. Timing belt failure is generally from some other reason. Improper service being chief among them, with outright neglect next in line.

"Typically" and "... outright neglect ..." are a convenient means of preserving a "told-you-so" response when something does indeed go very wrong.
A belt breaks well before reaching 1/2 the estimated 'life' in miles and time, as did one of my ALH, and what's the cause?
Improper service? I can rule that out. Any of you could allege otherwise since you weren't there at the time observing me do the work.
Not neglect, at 1/2 life.
Not some other reason like water pump or tensioner failure, both of which were new as part of the belt replacement and still without issue after my belt break.
So a situation like mine can be considered to be not typical.
A belt breaks sometime after the estimated 'life', either miles or time, and it's "outright neglect" to the rescue!
Does it matter? A broken belt, without regard for the reason, is valves and guides and gasket and labor and tow and time without use.

Risk /reward ratio has a bell curve shape with little gain from accelerated replacement (greater chance of 'improper service' and little to no change in belt failure probability), through a greater gain as the miles and age get closer to the manufacturer's guessed interval, and then fall in reward from further deferral (saving costs compared to a greater fail rate).

 

[oilhammer]

Sometimes stuff just breaks. Sometimes people get cancer in their 30s and die, too. But most do not.

 

[jokila]

The bell curve works for parts reliability too, even good brands.

 

[svizoman]

Good Morrow all, I have a 2013 Sportwagen CJAA. I was recently shivered out of my timbers by a friend who is a big TDI guy about my timing belt. He has me to beleive im sitting on a ticking time bomb, which probably isn't far off, but i wanted some opinions....I'm at 102k miles, and obviously 10 years old. I'm not by any means putting the timing belt on the back burner, but i though i could do it closer to 115K. I already have parts from kerma to change the timing belt. Should i make this happen post-haste? Or do i have time? Also it was suggested to change the HPFP as well....i was under the impression you could observe your fuel during filter changed for particles and base the change on that. Just asking, not trying to be right or wrong, genuinely just want my TDI to last forever. Thanks for any input! Any one from Utah?

in my service book it says 210k km and thats it. there is no time limit . i chaned my at 210k km and belt was as good as new. no cracks not warn no nothing. i guess it will hold even half mio km.

 

[Paulman]

I have a 2014 CJAA VW Jetta Sedan. My timing belt (and all the German parts associated with that) were replaced at 116,000 miles.
The German-parts car companies here in USA sell a timing belt kit that is actually an upgrade, given the parts that are sourced from Europe.
Cheap Chinese parts don't work long-term in these cars.
(And I'm not being racist anti-Chinese, because my wife is from Asia.)
Buy the parts from european parts manufacturers!

 

[oilhammer]

You do realize that the Litens company is from Canada, right? They designed the very clever timing system for the TDI engines. That's why the very best tensioners come from Litens themselves, made in Canada.

 

[AndyBees]

Back in December, 2022, I did a TB job on a 2012 Jetta (my first for a CR engine). The car had 165k miles on it. The owner purchased it at 145k miles. He said he had no clue if the TB had ever been changed. Well, from the looks of the rollers, idlers, tensioner, TB, WP, motor mount bolts, etc., they all looked original to me and never disturbed.

 

[FangersTDI]

It’s easy to see the condition of the belt! Just pop the cover off and look for cracks in the ribs, and how clear you can see the markings. Usually the shinier the belt, the more worn as well. Most of them have been replaced for free under warranty once if the owner cared at all. Like anything used- car related, it could last another 30k, it could pop today. I always say do it anyway because you don’t know the cars history like I did on my 2012

 

[FangersTDI]

Oh and easy fix for the HPFP if you want to keep it is a fresh quality filter every two oil changes LATEST. Diesel additive every fill-up, yes, every fill up if you live in the US, or any place without consistent diesel quality. I cannot recommend HotShot Secret Everyday Diesel Treatment enough. I use it religiously.

 

[Franko6]

I think this is made too simple, 'Just Run It'. First off, I think there is a lot of difference from Vancouver, BC to Phoenix, AZ. Long time ago, the comment from Ireland came that 'They never see that problem...'. But also in their country, I related the issue to a matter of temperature, as the hottest day ever in Ireland happened to be that day in May's temperature in SW Missouri. And yeah, it was just May...

What is more, you can blame the problem on a poor install plenty often enough, Heaven knows, I've said my piece on that. It is unfortunate that poor installation is a large part of my entire business.

I think...1. You don't run a tire till it's bald. 2. Oxidization plays a part. 3. When you least expect it, bad things happen. 4. Know what you are doing. If you don't, get someone that sure as heck does. 5. When you do replace, get really, really, really good parts... The Best.

I have customers that say when I removed the timing belt, it looked just fine. My answer is, "That beats a broken one 'all to pieces'." When I folded the belt back, they could see the beginnings of cracks. I call it maintenance to replace some parts before they can cause damage. Pre-emptive strike.

So, my big question: You have a CJAA timing belt that says 'good to 120,000 miles, NO TIME LIMIT'. Well, I got a belt that was on a 2002 Beetle that sat on a San Diego Wharf with 22,000 miles on it, for 12 years. Should I drive that for the rest of the 78,000 miles it's supposed to be good for? There are some 2015's, that blew the belt off with less than the touted mileage. It's cheaper to REPLACE THE ENGINE, than rebuild the cylinder head on the '15's. You gonna play that game? Consider the oxidization from your area. New Orleans is worse than Toronto.

Sometimes, a timing belt is just cheap insurance. But when you get parts, get good stuff. Know your sources. Don't stretch it. And DO NOT believe there is not a time limit. That is foolhardy. Ask any farmer. "It was working just fine when I put it into the shed last year..."

 

[JETaah]

I don't know what to blame it on but I have seen more than a couple BEWs lose about an 8 inch strip of teeth.
It was well below the 100K change interval. I thought that was why that VW changed the interval to 80K (or is this a nasty rumor).

 

[John Wesley Hardin]

Hey Oilhammer. Is there a way to service or neglect them ? I dont know. Im probably pushing it changing the timing belt on my 2003 Jetta TDI. Every time I get in that car I start thinking about . I would think a common failure would be a bearing seizure, as well as a belt. The belt may have been changed 60-80'000 miles ago.

 

[John Wesley Hardin]

Nor do the ALH, the BEW, the BRM, the BHW, the AWP, the AWM, the AZG, the AVH, the BEV, the BPY, the BPG.... (I could go on....). All of those engines typically go the prescribed interval without issue. Timing belt failure is generally from some other reason. Improper service being chief among them, with outright neglect next in line.

The AEB engine is the only one in recent history I've known to be problematic, and there was an upgrade for those.

Can you improperly service or neglect a timing belt ? I dont know? Im sweating it out right now on my 2003 Jetta It may have been changed 60-80'000 miles ago. As a stop gap measure could you just replace the belt only to buy some time till you did a full replacement

 

[AndyBees]

John Wesley Hardin, I'm sure Oilhammer will eventually chime-in. Until then........

I did a complete TB job on an '03 Jetta in about 2015 that had the original components according to the owner. It had 149k miles on it.
That's the oldest and most miles I've seen personally. I've seen several in the 130k mile range but not as old and lots of them over 100k but under 120k.

 

[FangersTDI]

A lot of people don’t realize that an equally important factor in their timing belt condition is general age and not mileage. I would feel better about the condition of a 2 year old timing belt with 80k miles than a 20 year old timing belt with 10k

 

[csstevej]

You got to remember it’s not the belt that’s failing……it’s gonna be something that’s touching the belt , either the WP , large roller , tensioner , small roller . I have never seen a belt failure….I’ve seen the other components fail and when they do then the belt becomes the secondary victim. When I first got my 01 TDI Golf used from a local dealer I had no idea of the timing belts on it . I had no idea of a change interval as all my previous cars never had belts.
I just assumed if it broke I’d get it towed home and replace it.
My first belt on then an 01 golf automatic I believe was set at 60,xxx miles. After finding the TDI club I realized I was on borrowed time , at this point I had some where in the neighborhood of just over 100,xxx miles on the car. Remember back then on my car the TB was rated for 60,xxx miles. When looking at TB it looked fine .Just my .02.

 

[IndigoBlueWagon]

When these cars suffer a timing belt system failure, it's rarely the belt. Usually it's a failed bearing in a roller or tensioner, or the water pump failing. Belts don't break often. Inspecting the belt doesn't get you much.

 

[JETaah]

When these cars suffer a timing belt system failure, it's rarely the belt. Usually it's a failed bearing in a roller or tensioner, or the water pump failing. Belts don't break often. Inspecting the belt doesn't get you much.

And when the ALH’s interval was upped to 100k the belts became more robust and the ALH large idler bearing did, too. Don’t know if that was all but that was the obvious stuff.
AHU/1Z remained at 60K with the wimpish belts...or not?
What were the preTDI car belt intervals at?

 

[John Wesley Hardin]

You got to remember it’s not the belt that’s failing……it’s gonna be something that’s touching the belt , either the WP , large roller , tensioner , small roller . I have never seen a belt failure….I’ve seen the other components fail and when they do then the belt becomes the secondary victim. When I first got my 01 TDI Golf used from a local dealer I had no idea of the timing belts on it . I had no idea of a change interval as all my previous cars never had belts.
I just assumed if it broke I’d get it towed home and replace it.
My first belt on then an 01 golf automatic I believe was set at 60,xxx miles. After finding the TDI club I realized I was on borrowed time , at this point I had some where in the neighborhood of just over 100,xxx miles on the car. Remember back then on my car the TB was rated for 60,xxx miles. When looking at TB it looked fine .Just my .02.

Thanks for the reply. Thats kind

A lot of people don’t realize that an equally important factor in their timing belt condition is general age and not mileage. I would feel better about the condition of a 2 year old timing belt with 80k miles than a 20 year old timing belt with 10k

Good point. Makes sense.

 

[John Wesley Hardin]

You got to remember it’s not the belt that’s failing……it’s gonna be something that’s touching the belt , either the WP , large roller , tensioner , small roller . I have never seen a belt failure….I’ve seen the other components fail and when they do then the belt becomes the secondary victim. When I first got my 01 TDI Golf used from a local dealer I had no idea of the timing belts on it . I had no idea of a change interval as all my previous cars never had belts.
I just assumed if it broke I’d get it towed home and replace it.
My first belt on then an 01 golf automatic I believe was set at 60,xxx miles. After finding the TDI club I realized I was on borrowed time , at this point I had some where in the neighborhood of just over 100,xxx miles on the car. Remember back then on my car the TB was rated for 60,xxx miles. When looking at TB it looked fine .Just my .02.

I had a wake up call when my serpentine belt failed . The belt didnt fail, the tension roller seized and the belt ripped to pieces. Good thing the water pump is on the timing belt. I heard a whop whop whop realized something went afoul then my battery light came on so I realized what happened. This is my concern now a bearing seizing. I want to order a Dieselgeek timing belt kit and have a mechanic put it in. Its difficult to find any one in South Texas to perform this service. After all I call living in South Texas , Third World Living at its finest, hahahha. Anyone know a shop or mobile guy down South Texas way?

 

[John Wesley Hardin]

When these cars suffer a timing belt system failure, it's rarely the belt. Usually it's a failed bearing in a roller or tensioner, or the water pump failing. Belts don't break often. Inspecting the belt doesn't get you much.

Very good conclusion thanks for the info. That was my concern a bearing seizing up

 

[John Wesley Hardin]

John Wesley Hardin, I'm sure Oilhammer will eventually chime-in. Until then........

I did a complete TB job on an '03 Jetta in about 2015 that had the original components according to the owner. It had 149k miles on it.
That's the oldest and most miles I've seen personally. I've seen several in the 130k mile range but not as old and lots of them over 100k but under 120k.

Thanks for the reply . I am just gonna have to Git R Done .