Lift for TDI Sportwagen (for oversize tires)

[taleAwaggin]

Because we want to do it the right way?

You don't get the benefit of longer, stiffer springs and struts, so loading up your Wagen with weight (people and things) will still cause the rear to sag.

Like my post says I was talking about the front.. I have Tiguan springs front and rear, and Tig struts up front. I kind of wish the front end was softer sprung. Knowing what I know now I probably would just do spacers in front rather than what I did.

 

[Zygote Bros]

If you really wanted to do research, it may be possible to find a softer Tiguan front spring. You'd have to look at the aftermarket European website and compare part numbers and specs. That's how I came up with using the specific Tiguan rear spring for my application.

 

[taleAwaggin]

Point is, it is oversimplification to say 'right way' and 'wrong way.' Spacers are not always the wrong way. Stiffer springs and struts are not always the right way.

 

[murphyslaw]

I put the lift spring kit from idparts.com on this last spring. Last week I put on new 225/50R17 tires. There is still a bit more gap than I wanted, but only going up 1 step fixed my speedo. It has been 2mph slow since brand new now its bang on. The next set of tires will be taller but skinnier.

 

[vtsportwagen]

Special Active

Front

JSW 8745 1038
Max: 575 mm
Min: 400 mm

Tiguan 8745 1263
Max: 565 mm
Min: 400 mm

Rear

JSW 8045 1084
Max: 585 mm
Min: 361mm

Tiguan 8045 1228
Max: 585mm
Min: 361mm


Koni Yellow

Front

JSW 8710 1431
Max: 575mm
Min:400mm

Tiguan 8741 1546
Max: 605mm
Min: 442mm

Rear

JSW 80 2859
Max: 585mm
Min: 354mm

Tiguan 8040 1395
Max: 630mm
Min: 383mm

In the process of lifting my 2014 TDI JSW
I emailed Koni about the length of the Tiguan rears and it looks like your info is different than what ive got:

SA 8045 1228
Min: 381mm
Max: 360mm

Sport 8040 1395
Min: 383mm
Max: 630mm

my general research has concluded that the longer (Tiguan) struts are the way to go. Based on the fact that Forge suggest a rear strut extension with their lift kit, it makes sense to me that a longer strut would do the same when installing the longer springs. correct me if i'm wrong, but the car should bottom out the springs before the struts would bottom?

Leaning towards the special actives, as i love in Vermont and 50% of our roads are dirt, plus the ones that are paved aren't great.

starting with the rears, and lifting with the OEM towing springs i bought from ECS (id was out of stock). Planning on replacing the rear mounts as well with ECS HD mounts. any info would be greatly appreciated.

 

[taleAwaggin]

Topping out the rear struts can be very bad. Both NVH wise and handling (safety) wise as I have experienced testing various springs and spacers out on the road.

I don't think suspension springs "top out" or at least they do not hit their installed working limit harshly. If you look at spring specs, installed heights are extremely shorter in height than uncompressed height, I don't think unseating a spring should be an issue on these cars. I would test in a safe manner regardless but I can't see it being any kind of issue. The sway bar and other working pieces of the suspension should keep that from being possible no matter how long you go with max strut length.

The thing to be cautious about is your brake hoses lengths and ABS wires lengths. IMO in a no compromises lift, a longer strut max is a requirement.

It can be good enough to compromise with reduced downtravel, as I have done and most people do. Optimal and a some what compromised "it will do fine" setup are two different things however..

 

[vtsportwagen]

what is the consensus on front struts? seems like Zygtote and Vernalicious use Jetta struts (according to Koni, the jetta struts are actually longer), one guy over on vortex is using stock tig struts in the front with 4wd tiguan front springs. ive reached out to Koni to see if they can give the damping rate on these, so that will be intereting to see what they say

looking for some input here.

 

[vtsportwagen]

response from Koni. if this helps out with input.

8745 1038 (10-14 jsw AND 14-16 jetta sedan)
Tested @ .33m/sec
400N compression
1800N rebound

9745 1263 (tiguan)
Tested @ .33m/sec
750N compression
1950N rebound

also curb weight ranges for above vehicles (all 2014)

Jetta Sedan: 2804-3210 lbs
JSW: 3186 -3340 lbs
Tiguan: 3397 - 3591 lbs

 

[Jordan Leao]

Ok so I also read through all 19 pages here but basically... I do not know anything about my car. I have YouTube'd and replaced simple things (screen for moon roof, throttle body, and speakers) but some of the stuff that is obvious to you that you should worry about doesn't make any sense to me. It is because to me replacing parts is you have to have the right tools and 'mod' ing you have to know what you are doing. I'm hoping this doesn't annoy everyone... I am 23 so not capable until you teach me once taught I'll understand

I have a 2009 JSW SE, MK5, current tires are 225/45 R17.

I am looking for a 2 inch lift to have a little extra clearance, fit a more effective snow tire on, and just drive better "in" the snow. Also to learn Still deciding whether to do steelies or cheap alloys and deciding the tire too.

I am going to have to replace my control arm assembly already.

Sooo
What route should I go? I see most talked about the Tiguan (springs and shocks "as they should be done together" awd tig vs non sport tig vs Bilstein HD's vs Koni STR-T Struts/Shocks with HD Towing springs in the rear and Tiggy AWD non-sport springs in the front.

Why is the other stuff needed / would it be needed in my case (coil overs vs springs and struts/shocks)

What do I need to worry about? (alignment, ecu)

What measurements do I need to take and what calcs from those measurements?

And ultimately if I rent the spring compressor from AutoZone should I be able to figure this out?

PM me if you don't think people will appreciate me posting here like this that way it stops immediately haha

 

[craigldavis]

Your best option is probably this:

Sportwagen Lift Springs Set

Raise your Sportwagen for extra ground clearance and rear cargo capacity with this lift spring set. This spring set combines Sportwagen rear towing springs with Tiguan front springs, resultin...

www.idparts.com

They already figured out what’s needed and what works and they have great support. Call them and they can guide you through what all you need for your whole project.

 

[Zygote Bros]

Ok so I also read through all 19 pages here but basically... I do not know anything about my car. I have YouTube'd and replaced simple things (screen for moon roof, throttle body, and speakers) but some of the stuff that is obvious to you that you should worry about doesn't make any sense to me. It is because to me replacing parts is you have to have the right tools and 'mod' ing you have to know what you are doing. I'm hoping this doesn't annoy everyone... I am 23 so not capable until you teach me once taught I'll understand

I have a 2009 JSW SE, MK5, current tires are 225/45 R17.

I am looking for a 2 inch lift to have a little extra clearance, fit a more effective snow tire on, and just drive better "in" the snow. Also to learn Still deciding whether to do steelies or cheap alloys and deciding the tire too.

I am going to have to replace my control arm assembly already.

Sooo
What route should I go? I see most talked about the Tiguan (springs and shocks "as they should be done together" awd tig vs non sport tig vs Bilstein HD's vs Koni STR-T Struts/Shocks with HD Towing springs in the rear and Tiggy AWD non-sport springs in the front.

Why is the other stuff needed / would it be needed in my case (coil overs vs springs and struts/shocks)

What do I need to worry about? (alignment, ecu)

What measurements do I need to take and what calcs from those measurements?

And ultimately if I rent the spring compressor from AutoZone should I be able to figure this out?

PM me if you don't think people will appreciate me posting here like this that way it stops immediately haha

Front springs are a no brainer, the Tiguan springs (regular non-sport) are best unless you have special needs.

These are the rear springs I think fit best on the Jetta Sportwagen:

3C0511115AG 362 13.00 118 2.55
1K0511115CG 351 13.25 120 2.65
1K0511115CT 383 13.00 117 2.80

The third one is the towing spring that most use and included with the aftermarket Sportwagen lift packages. I have the second one, which is stiffer (13.25mm coil diameter vs. 13.00mm) and sits slightly lower than a towing spring. Perhaps stiffer than some would like. I am considering changing to the first spring now. I prefer to have an even lift, the towing springs seem to lift the rear an extra 1/2 inch.

As far as struts, the Jetta Koni reds in the front have been great. I used Koni yellows (Sport) previously and had a thump at full extension. I don't know about Bilstein HDs, but I'd think those would be OK.

As far as the rear, I prefer the Tiguan struts, either Bilstein Touring or Koni Reds. I found (twice) that the Jetta rear struts will cause a thump when fully extended. Also the Jetta reds were too soft for the springs (maybe because I had the stiffer ones).

You may also want to consider installing a 22mm GTI/Passat rear sway bar (1K0511305CM). A cheap upgrade, I think they are still available used for less than $100. And don't be cheap...get new sway bar bushings if you do this.

 

[taleAwaggin]

You guys running big 26" or 27++ tires, how is the gearing working out? Do you manual drivers have any issues with slow traverse going up hill? That is one question I've been curious about.

 

[Zygote Bros]

You guys running big 26" or 27++ tires, how is the gearing working out? Do you manual drivers have any issues with slow traverse going up hill? That is one question I've been curious about.

I have 225x50x17 (25.9") and no issues whatsoever with a DSG. I don't see why you would have issues with a manual transmission.

 

[jtskir222]

whats everyone using for mudflaps with their lifted wagons?

 

[taleAwaggin]

I don't see why you would have issues with a manual transmission.

Seems to me that 6mt with large heavy 27" all terrain tires, you would have to fry your clutch to get any technical low mph work done. I don't mind being wrong which is why I ask these things instead of assuming.

 

[Stubbydnutz]

So is there a simple parts list available for lifting a 2011 sportwagen?

 

[brkdrvr]

Hello, We just installed an Idparts “lift kit” on my daughters 2014 Jetta Sportwagen. It looks great and rides and handles very nicely but my daughter seems to think she is getting very poor milage due to upsizing to tires that are 1 inch taller on her stock 17” alloy rims. I will have to investigate to confirm. I am wondering what others have experienced when lifting and.using larger tires, I really expected little change to the MPG since the rims were the same, the tires only slightly taller and the fact that the TDI has so much more torque than a gas vehicle. We have 3 more CJAA TDI Sportwagens that I planned to lift and put slightly taller tires on but I would like to determine what’s causing the MPG loss before I proceed. We lifted her previous 2009 TDI Jetta Sportwagen with the same kit from IDparts and really liked the way it looked and drove but it had OEM 16” alloys and stock sized tires plus kerma tune. She never noted a decrease in MPG but she did sell it after only driving 1500 miles when she had the chance to buy the 2014 with 100,000 less miles. Any observations or insights from those who have lifted and or installed taller tires will be greatly appreciated. Thanks, Mike

 

[Wilkins]

My first thought is did she adjust her odometer reading to account for the larger circumference of the bigger tires? Not sure what 1 in taller is in actual tire size. I ran 215/55-17 for a summer and didn’t notice a drop in economy although I’m sure there was some, just not a lot. That’s the biggest tire which will fit in the wheel well without a lift.

 

[PRY4SNO]

@brkdrvr can't comment on your specific case, as there are many variables.

When I lifted mine I noticed my fuel consumption dropped 0.5L/100km, using hand calculations and the same route at almost the same speed.

My lift saw a sidewall height increase of 1" (so 0.5" ground clearance) due to tires. My speedo went from reading somewhat high, to reading almost dead on. If I recall correctly, it went from an indicated speed of 120 km/h and actual of 113 km/h (via GPS) to within 0.5-1 km/h of indicated vs actual after the lift. So it's possible that going from 120 km/h on cruise to basically match the speed, then going down to 110 km/h on cruise to match the limit was the bigger factor (due to lower rpm).

In any case, that's what I saw; YMMV.

 

[Nuje]

Did you correct your fuel consumption calculations for the fact that your odometer was now reading "longer" km due to the increased circumference of the tires?
(Important note: while the speedometer is configured to read higher than actual speed, the odometer is pretty much bang-on (e.g., set the cruise at 100km/hr and drive for one hour, and the odometer will probably read that you've only traveled ~96-97km).

For all of your tire size (and speed changes), I like this site (below) - also includes what changes the speedometer will register for you with different tire sizes.

Tire Size Comparison

Tire size comparison the easy way. Use our tire size comparison calculator to compare diameter, width, sidewall, circumference and revolutions per mile.

tiresize.com

 

[SomeJ]

@brkdrvr As the others are saying, you would want to check to see if the adjustments were made to the instrument cluster to compensate for the taller tires. A tool like Torque with a BT ODBC adapter is great for a side by side comparison of ECU speed vs GPS speed for tweaking things.

Input with 110k+ miles on my car with the lift and taller tires... I did not notice any reduction MPG, however will confirm what the others have seen as well... Is that before the taller tires with the factory settings my speedo and odo were about 5-10% slow (meaning i was going faster than the speedo said and was putting on more miles than the odo recorded). After putting on the taller tires and adjusting the instrument cluster the speedo is around 1% fast which in my book could be considered spot on given all the factors involved.

Haven driven many miles on straight flat land and now on curvy mountain roads... I found that my MPG was quite a bit lower on the straight flat roads, and in those cases the only thing I could think of that was making such an impact is the wind. It seemed I always had a head wind or a side wind (the side wind can have a big impact by throwing off the air envelope of the car).

Happy driving!
J

 

[PRY4SNO]

The TUV has an acceptable range of up to 10% variance for speedometers, which is what many of us notice.

However, it's important to note that by that law the speedo can never read slow -- in that you're going faster than indicated. Always the other way around. Think of the lawsuits for speeding tickets that would cause.

Also (I looked last night and couldn't find the source material), I'm certain that even if the speedo is off by x% that the odometer is actually accurate. Something about where the input data is derived not being affected the same.

 

[Nuje]

Is that before the taller tires with the factory settings my speedo and odo were about 5-10% slow (meaning i was going faster than the speedo said and was putting on more miles than the odo recorded).

I believe that this is the OPPOSITE of what most people see (and also opposite of how the car arrives from the factory).
There's no way a car company wants their cars going FASTER than what the speedometer says ("Honestly officer - I was going EXACTLY the speed limit...how could I have been speeding?"..... followed by class action suits.

And similarly, they want the odometer to be exactly right - measuring more miles than actual = class action for premature warranty expiration; measuring fewer miles and they just gave everyone a free mileage extension to the factory warranty.

 

[Wilkins]

The TUV has an acceptable range of up to 10% variance for speedometers, which is what many of us notice.

Also (I looked last night and couldn't find the source material), I'm certain that even if the speedo is off by x% that the odometer is actually accurate. Something about where the input data is derived not being affected the same.

I think TUV may require speedometers to be somewhere between 3 and 10% fast. I can’t be sure of the exact numbers.
The odometer is quite accurate, basically as close as variations in tire diameter between manufacturers and wear allow and the car knows exactly what that distance/time result is, ie what the speed is. This number can be read through the OBD port by a device such as a Polar FIS, which is what I have.
One of the computer modules, (ECU?) calculates the speed and distance based on the inputs from the ABS sensors on each wheel, counting the number of impulses received. VW uses the same modules and software on many models so it is possible to set the number used in the conversion from pulses/second to km/hr to account for several different tire sizes. This can be adjusted using VCDS or equivalent. In the Mk4 vehicles the software allowed for a wide range of input numbers, but in the mk5 and mk6 cars VW appears to have set up a menu from which about 10 numbers can be selected corresponding to specific tire sizes. Confusingly the selections for Mk6 software seem to be different from Mk5 software. Going from memory, the stock mk6 (205/55-16) setting is 7, an NMS Passat (215/55-17) is 3 and a B6 Passat (215/55-16) is 6. These settings all gave very accurate numbers on both my GPS and the radar cameras near me.
The digital speed displayed in the cluster is, on my car, 6% faster than the odometer speed. Depending on the ’country’ setting for the cluster this number might change. I believe someone claimed that the US spec is only 3% fast but I can’t confirm.
I find it very helpful to know how fast I’m going but my wife gets confused by two speedometers reading different numbers, especially since the parallax in the analog gauge added to the cluster offset means it appears to read nearly 120 when cruising at 106 with the cruise control indicating 113.

 

[Dieselmotor]

Has anyone tried using the Tiguan Bilstein B4 19-170732 Rear Shock with the rear towing spring? Comparing to the B6 33-158723, it doesn't compress as much but it's almost the same when fully extended. Thanks in advance for all the help!

Bilstein B6 33-158723
Collapsed Length (IN)14.07
Extended Length (IN)25.20

Bilstein B4 19-170732
Collapsed Length (IN)15.12
Extended Length (IN)24.84

 

[Hbtfurther]

Still trying to finalize the suspension upgrade I want to do on the JSW. Wasn't completely sold on lift springs/spacers and originally was just going to upgrade to the b6s w/new stock height springs but after reading all 19 pages and distilling it down, here is where I have arrived:

*Only really to need to read the last 3 or 4 pages of this thread.
*Lifting with struts/springs more advantageous than spacer kits such as forge.
*Bilstein B6s up front and B6s in the rear unless there is a reason to consider the b4s?
*IDparts lift springs set unless there is a strong argument for OEM tiguan F/JSW towing R?

FWIW, I currently have 225/50R17 Michelin Crossclimate 2's on my stock height JSW TDI that have been absolutely outstanding year-round here in Colorado. 3 peak rated, so good in the snow that I didn't even bother swapping to my snow tires last year (I am not saying these are as good as a dedicated snow tire, but if you can only have one set these are something to definitely consider). Amazing in the rain, even in downpours I don't need to reduce speed until visibility becomes an issue.

This larger plus 1 tire size will affect the speedometer readings by about +1 at 30 mph, +2 at 60 mph, +3 at 90mph, etc. Haven't worked out the exact MPG penalty but the cars reading has stayed consistent at around 41mpg with both the stock and plus 1 size. I'm sure there is some way to work this out but I haven't bothered.

As for some folks who think the larger tire size with affect the clutch on my manual, I am open to reasoning but I doubt it. My winter setup is 16" steel rims with Bridgestone Blizzaks and I am almost certain they are heavier than the Crossclimate 2 w/stock 17" alloys. I haven't weighed them yet but I will update when I rotate or swap the tires.

Just trying to contribute as I have been scraping information off this forum for years, time to give back. Hope some of the info helps. Will update once I make time and do the suspension/brakes.

 

[Avenger8692]

Im not sure which Bilsteins I have but when I purchase the car it was already lifted on Tiguan suspension but I love the height and ride. Im still running 225/45/17 but would like to upgrade to a all terrain tire. Drove to Tennessee from Texas and got almost 700 miles to the tank. Mine is deleted and stage 2 i believe but averaged over 40mpg

 

[CB4]

OK, Update: Koni is not the way to go; I have blown two struts thus far....

New setup below, so far feels even better.

Bilstein B6 HD Strut and Shock Set (A5 and Mk6 Sportwagen) - Front Strut Mounts: Yes - Installation Bolt Kit: - Rear Shock Mounts:	$1,109.67
2​	Rear Sway Bar Link (Mk5)(Mk6)(NMS)(8P)	$37.90
2​	Rear Sway Bar Bushing (A5) [FEBI]	$31.22
1​	Eibach Anti-Roll Rear Sway Bar (A5)(Mk6 Golf)(Sportwagen)	$249.95
2​	Sway Bar Link (A5)(Mk6)(NMS)(MK7)	$36.20
1​	Eibach Anti-Roll Front Sway Bar (A5)(Mk6 Golf)(Sportwagen)	$259.95
1​	Sportwagen Lift Springs Set	$214.00

 

[Drclaw]

8,000 Mile Update-Trouble

Guys, the 2" lift has been in place for a little over 8k miles, and I noticed the driver's shaft inner CV joint boot was split! I was worried about that angle, looks like it really stresses that boot too much. I called Marty at raxles, he didn't have a solution (other than lowering the car!), so I'm stuck. Any suggestions--maybe a heavier boot for that joint?

Did you ever come up with a solution for this? I tore my outer driver side oen boot, rebuilt myself, tore that, and then went with a raxle. Tore the inner boot in less than 6 months and less than 5k miles.

 

[Drclaw]

Does anyone here run a spacer on the transmission side to make up for the longer distance the axle has to reach in the raised configuration?