Lift for TDI Sportwagen (for oversize tires)

Zygote Bros

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2014 JSW TDI
Your using Tiguan rear springs correct? How do you think the Tiguan konis would pair with the jsw towing springs? The tow springs are even taller than the Tiguan springs, correct?
Where did you source your sway bar?
Yes, see posts #455 for the spring list and #457 for which Tiguan rear springs I bought (AG). There are A LOT of different Tiguan rear springs. According to the specs from there, the thickness of the metal is the same diameter as the towing springs, but the overall length is 21mm shorter (about 3/4 inch unloaded, about 1/2 inch loaded). I don't remember if that makes the spring slightly stiffer or softer than the towing springs (someone can chime in here if they want). From what I read, the towing springs are about 190 lbs. and the stock springs are about 145. I don't know the strength of the springs I have.

Regardless, I think the Tiguan Konis would be good with the towing springs if those springs are no stiffer than the Tiguan springs I have. If you want to experiment a bit, I'd find someone selling some lightly used Tiguan OEM rear struts for cheap and try those...might be worthwhile. With the extra height of the towing springs, I think you want a little compliance in the rear end, otherwise IMHO the car starts to feel a little tipsy and has a little more understeer.

How do you think your car feels right now? Can you can push the rear end down easily (I could with the Jetta Koni SA in the rear)? Does it feel wallowy in the rear on the freeway?
 
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swampfox69

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Jul 29, 2019
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Michigan
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Sportwagen
Sorry if this has been covered. I extensively searched this thread and the forum in general without a clear answer. Is there a maximum tire diameter for a stock suspension mk6 Sportwagen? I am thinking about 205/65r16 tires. Will I run into rubbing issues without lifting?
 
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Wallingford, CT
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2002 Golf GLS TDI
Sorry if this has been covered. I extensively searched this thread and the forum in general without a clear answer. Is there a maximum tire diameter for a stock suspension mk6 Sportwagen? I am thinking about 205/65r16 tires. Will I run into rubbing issues without lifting?
I was running 215 55 16 pre-loft and did noy rub -- when unloaded. But a JSW with 4 people and luggage gets a saggy rear and rubs the wheelwell with every bump in the road at that size. Compare your option to that through www.tiresize.com

Sent from my LM-Q610(FGN) using Tapatalk
 

Wilkins

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Aug 19, 2005
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British Columbia
TDI
05 Jetta Wagon 5sp, 10 Sportwagen 6MT
I’m running 215 55 17 which are supposed to have a diameter of 668 mm. I wouldn’t go larger, clearance on the front is pretty tight. 215 65 16 is shown as 686 mm, nearly an inch larger diameter.
 

ewdysar

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May 27, 2019
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SoCal
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2014 JSW TDi 6m
Yes, see posts #455 for the spring list and #457 for which Tiguan rear springs I bought (AG). There are A LOT of different Tiguan rear springs. According to the specs from there, the thickness of the metal is the same diameter as the towing springs, but the overall length is 21mm shorter (about 3/4 inch unloaded, about 1/2 inch loaded). I don't remember if that makes the spring slightly stiffer or softer than the towing springs (someone can chime in here if they want). From what I read, the towing springs are about 190 lbs. and the stock springs are about 145. I don't know the strength of the springs I have.
Looking at an online coil spring rate calculator, they said that the three things that effect spring rate are wire diameter, coil diameter and number of free coils.

Effect On Rate:
In the formula below you will see Wire Diameter, Coil Diameter and Number Of Coils. Here is how they effect rate:

Dimension Increased Effect On Rate
Wire Diameter Higher
Coil Mean Diameter Lower
Number Of Coils Lower

Since we already know that your AG springs have the same wire diameter and coil diameter as CT springs (according to the data in post #455), the only variable is number of free coils. With the only difference being spring length, the number of free coils is either the same for both (= same spring rate) or the longer spring has an extra free coil (= lower spring rate for extra coil). If the online catalog pics are correct, the CT springs have an extra coil, therefore your AG springs should have a higher spring rate (stiffer) than the CT springs (JSW towing springs).

Interestingly, the AG springs appear to be the same coil diameter, length and number of free coils as the stock DE rear springs, the only difference is 13mm wire for the AG, and 12.25mm wire for the stock DE. So your observed lift is a result of higher spring rate alone and less deflection from the weight of the car. The CT springs add in an extra 21mm in length for their lift, but they give up some of that extra length with more deflection from the weight of the car due to a slightly softer spring rate (extra coil).

Like the way that stiffer rear sway bars reduce understeer, stiffer rear shocks/struts also reduce understeer. They differ in how that works, sway bars deal with static weight transfer and struts deal with transient weight transfer. The end result is struts help more during the initial turn in and bumps in turns, sway bars help more in for the rest of the turn. But yeah, the stiffer Tiguan SA rear struts should help reduce that wallowing as the car sets up in a turn. This will be true with both the AG springs and the CT (JSW towing) springs.

Zyggie, I want to thank you for all the work that you did finding these options. It has been a huge inspiration.

Eric
 

Zygote Bros

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NNV
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2014 JSW TDI
Looking at an online coil spring rate calculator, they said that the three things that effect spring rate are wire diameter, coil diameter and number of free coils.
Effect On Rate:
In the formula below you will see Wire Diameter, Coil Diameter and Number Of Coils. Here is how they effect rate:
Dimension Increased Effect On Rate
Wire Diameter Higher
Coil Mean Diameter Lower
Number Of Coils Lower
Since we already know that your AG springs have the same wire diameter and coil diameter as CT springs (according to the data in post #455), the only variable is number of free coils. With the only difference being spring length, the number of free coils is either the same for both (= same spring rate) or the longer spring has an extra free coil (= lower spring rate for extra coil). If the online catalog pics are correct, the CT springs have an extra coil, therefore your AG springs should have a higher spring rate (stiffer) than the CT springs (JSW towing springs).
Interestingly, the AG springs appear to be the same coil diameter, length and number of free coils as the stock DE rear springs, the only difference is 13mm wire for the AG, and 12.25mm wire for the stock DE. So your observed lift is a result of higher spring rate alone and less deflection from the weight of the car. The CT springs add in an extra 21mm in length for their lift, but they give up some of that extra length with more deflection from the weight of the car due to a slightly softer spring rate (extra coil).
Like the way that stiffer rear sway bars reduce understeer, stiffer rear shocks/struts also reduce understeer. They differ in how that works, sway bars deal with static weight transfer and struts deal with transient weight transfer. The end result is struts help more during the initial turn in and bumps in turns, sway bars help more in for the rest of the turn. But yeah, the stiffer Tiguan SA rear struts should help reduce that wallowing as the car sets up in a turn. This will be true with both the AG springs and the CT (JSW towing) springs.
Zyggie, I want to thank you for all the work that you did finding these options. It has been a huge inspiration.
Eric
Ewdysar, thanks very much for your insights. I'm glad it confirms what I was trying to do.

With my first Sportwagen (which was totalled), there were issues with the setup which I wanted to correct with my second Sportwagen. The first car had 2wd Tiguan front springs, Jetta Towing rear springs and Jetta Koni Sports all around.

1. Clunk in front end going over large speed bumps. I suspected the Koni Sports were at full extension over large bumps. I went with Koni SAs hoping to gain a little extra suspension travel. I think it was a success as I don't hear the clunk much any more. I have to work at it for that to happen.

2. The rake front to rear was more than I liked, the car understeered more than I liked, and the rear also clunked going over large speed bumps. I liked the extra strength of the towing springs, wanted something a little lower in the rear. I figured lowering the rear a bit also would help reduce understeer. That's what lead me to use the AG springs. I also used Jetta Koni SA struts intially, but the struts were too weak (the back wallowed on large rolling bumps) and I still had the clunk due to full extension. Changing to Tiguan SA struts got rid of the clunk and the rear is now very well controlled (actually, rather firm). The butt-o-meter does say the AG springs are slightly stiffer than the towing springs.

I am very happy with the results. It sits right and handles well. The back is still firm but softened slightly after several thousand miles. It was lifted the same amount all the way around, maybe a 1/4" more in the rear. If I had to make one more mod I might try Tiguan OEM/Bilstein B4 struts to soften the rear slightly. But I'm not going to do that now.

I hope this info will help others who want to do the lift (and don't want to do it twice!!!).
 
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ewdysar

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2014 JSW TDi 6m
Do you have a part number for the Tiguan SA Koni’s. This obviously goes outside the regular fitment tables...

Thanks,
Eric
 

Zygote Bros

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ewdysar

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Thanks for the part number, Zyg.
Building on my last post, I’ll assume that the Tiguan front struts are stiffer, and therefore, installing them would increase initial understeer which would put you back closer to the balance that you had with the Jetta SAs all around.
As a reminder, with sway bars, shocks and struts, adding stiffness at the rear reduces understeer, adding stiffness at the front increases understeer, but that is relative stiffness compared to the other end. Adding or reducing stiffness at both ends at the same time won’t change the balance overall. And sway bars effect overall body roll (static weight transfer) and shock/struts effect initial turn in and bump/dips in turns (transient weight transfer).
But this is in reference to balance alone, any of these and other suspension changes will affect other things as well, i.e. ride height, ride harshness, maybe even road noise, etc. So if you like the balance/feel that you have today, be happy, don’t mess with it. :p
 

Siskiyou_Golfmk6

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Feb 10, 2020
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Ashland, Oregon
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2012 Golf
Tiguan vs golf Koni Special Active

Hello,
I have a 2012 Golf manual, 4 door. Wanting to install ID parts " golf lift spring kit" (fwd tiguan fronts springs and suplex rear springs).
Question: should I purchase Koni AS Tiguan or Golf?
I think I have read some people experiencing top-out and some not.
 

PRY4SNO

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May 15, 2016
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Edmonton, AB
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2010 GSW 6 speed
I got golf struts/shocks and am very happy with them. Be sure to confirm if you need 50 or 55 mm fronts first.
 

DivineChaos

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Jul 27, 2019
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gets cold here
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mk6 jetta sportwagen tdi
what about adding the strut and spring spacers to lift it just for the winter? actually been thinking of getting those. would be easy to add and remove them each spring/fall.
 

ewdysar

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2014 JSW TDi 6m
I'd guess I'd be rechecking the installation of the strut mounts. Often they are the source of noise.
On another note, I replaced the Jetta Koni Special Active rear struts with Tiguan Koni SA struts. I also replaced the stock rear sway bar with a GTI rear sway bar....The GTI sway bar (available used for well under $100) is a no brainer, along with new bushings ($22 for the pair).
@ Zygote - I’m finding a couple of different used GTI sway bars and was wondering if you know the part #, or at least the specific fitments. I believe that the one that I am looking for for my 2014 JSW is 1K0511305CM (2010-2014 GTI rear sway bar). I assume that this a direct bolt-in swap, with the 22mm bushings, of course. Just trying to make sure that I get the right one...

Thanks,
Eric
 

Zygote Bros

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2014 JSW TDI
@ Zygote - I’m finding a couple of different used GTI sway bars and was wondering if you know the part #, or at least the specific fitments. I believe that the one that I am looking for for my 2014 JSW is 1K0511305CM (2010-2014 GTI rear sway bar). I assume that this a direct bolt-in swap, with the 22mm bushings, of course. Just trying to make sure that I get the right one...
Thanks,
Eric
Yes, that's correct. I believe they will fit on Passats also.

Hello,
I have a 2012 Golf manual, 4 door. Wanting to install ID parts " golf lift spring kit" (fwd tiguan fronts springs and suplex rear springs).
Question: should I purchase Koni AS Tiguan or Golf?
I think I have read some people experiencing top-out and some not.
Not a Golf expert but I think the springs you want to use for the rear are the 3C0511115AD or equivalent springs, which are a little softer and shorter than the springs I have and the Jetta towing springs. You have a lighter back end. That may be what ID Parts uses in their kits. As far as struts? Not sure...the Koni SA Golf may be OK, but if you go Tiguan I'd say use Tiguan OEM.

I found the Koni SA Jetta rear strut to be too soft for my application and I did have topping issues. And some MAY find the Koni SA Tiguan rear struts a little firm. But NO topping issues, no clunk. In fact I just went over some larger speed bumps yesterday, took them beautifully!

As far as the front the Koni SA Jetta struts work well for me.
 
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sinfony78

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Sep 20, 2005
Location
houston, tx
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2010 sportwagen
....
2. The rake front to rear was more than I liked, the car understeered more than I liked, and the rear also clunked going over large speed bumps. I liked the extra strength of the towing springs, wanted something a little lower in the rear. I figured lowering the rear a bit also would help reduce understeer. That's what lead me to use the AG springs. I also used Jetta Koni SA struts intially, but the struts were too weak (the back wallowed on large rolling bumps) and I still had the clunk due to full extension. Changing to Tiguan SA struts got rid of the clunk and the rear is now very well controlled (actually, rather firm). The butt-o-meter does say the AG springs are slightly stiffer than the towing springs.
I am very happy with the results. It sits right and handles well. The back is still firm but softened slightly after several thousand miles. It was lifted the same amount all the way around, maybe a 1/4" more in the rear. If I had to make one more mod I might try Tiguan OEM/Bilstein B4 struts to soften the rear slightly. But I'm not going to do that now.
I hope this info will help others who want to do the lift (and don't want to do it twice!!!).
hey zygote, thanks for all your info...wish i had come across this prior to all your posts end of last year. here's what i ended up doing:

1) installed koni special actives, tiguan front, suplex towing rear (all from idparts.com)
2) upon inital install, front end sat taller because i have a jl audio sub + 2 bike hitch rack in the rear at all times
3) installed a 20mm spacer in rear to bring it back up to level with front - it sagged way too much when adding a passenger and a few items in the cargo area; this car is our road trip car
4) with the 20mm spacer installed, car clunks over speed bumps. do not have that issue at all in front

can you help me figure out what to do in order to get that back end higher up. i do need a high spring rate just because i will always have the weight in the back from the sub and bike rack

1) 1K0511115CT - is this the same as the jetta towing spring from suplex? it appears to be, but from your post they could be tiguan springs - https://www.ecstuning.com/b-suplex-parts/rear-spring-priced-each/1k0511115ct-space-~spx/
2) in order to get rid of the rear clunk, should i go with the tiguan special actives to allow for more travel when adding the 20mm spacer?

thanks!
 
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Zygote Bros

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NNV
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2014 JSW TDI
hey zygote, thanks for all your info...wish i had come across this prior to all your posts end of last year. here's what i ended up doing:

1) installed koni special actives, tiguan front, suplex towing rear (all from idparts.com)
2) upon inital install, front end sat taller because i have a jl audio sub + 2 bike hitch rack in the rear at all times
3) installed a 20mm spacer in rear to bring it back up to level with front - it sagged way too much when adding a passenger and a few items in the cargo area; this car is our road trip car
4) with the 20mm spacer installed, car clunks over speed bumps. do not have that issue at all in front

can you help me figure out what to do in order to get that back end higher up. i do need a high spring rate just because i will always have the weight in the back from the sub and bike rack

1) 1K0511115CT - is this the same as the jetta towing spring from suplex? it appears to be, but from your post they could be tiguan springs - https://www.ecstuning.com/b-suplex-parts/rear-spring-priced-each/1k0511115ct-space-~spx/
2) in order to get rid of the rear clunk, should i go with the tiguan special actives to allow for more travel when adding the 20mm spacer?

thanks!
Before you do anything the first thing I would ask is what is the measurement at the top of the wheel arches front and rear? Something doesn't sound right.

Are you sure you got the rear towing springs? I looked at the ID Parts website and it said there were two options for the rear, standard and towing (+$10)...the towing springs should sit higher in the rear without spacers compared to the front. And there is no way adding a passenger and few things in the trunk should cause the rear to sag much more than 1/2 inch. My guess is your front is fine but you may have the wrong springs in the rear.

https://www.idparts.com/complete-spring-sportwagen-357411105n-1k0511115de-39102-39291-p-4831.html#product_tabs

Your answer to question 2 is that you could use a tiguan 2wd rear strut (OEM, Bilstein B4 or Koni SA). Koni SA is probably the stiffest of the 3 by a little.
 
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sinfony78

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Location
houston, tx
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2010 sportwagen
Before you do anything the first thing I would ask is what is the measurement at the top of the wheel arches front and rear? Something doesn't sound right.

Are you sure you got the rear towing springs? I looked at the ID Parts website and it said there were two options for the rear, standard and towing (+$10)...the towing springs should sit higher in the rear without spacers compared to the front. And there is no way adding a passenger and few things in the trunk should cause the rear to sag much more than 1/2 inch. My guess is your front is fine but you may have the wrong springs in the rear.
I'll check with id parts about the rear springs

measurements:
front - 27.9”
rear - 29" - just checked and i have 30mm spacers installed, not 20

EDIT: yes these are towing springs - https://www.idparts.com/sportwagen-lift-springs-set-1k0511115ct-5n0411105ab-39492-39478-p-5101.html
"Raise your Sportwagen for extra ground clearance and rear cargo capacity with this lift spring set. This spring set combines Sportwagen rear towing springs with Tiguan front springs, resulting in a 1.5 inch front lift and a 2+ inch rear lift (when unloaded).

The higher rate rear springs will also allow you to load up the cargo area of your Sportwagen, or attach a trailer, without having the rear end sag. "

I actually talked to them after I sent them pictures after the install, they checked the part number on the box and I believe the color of the dots on the springs and told me I had the correct ones.
 
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Zygote Bros

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2014 JSW TDI
Also, do you know what model year tiguan koni sa's can be installed?
Thanks
See post 490 for the part number. It applies to the previous generation 2wd Tiguan. About your rear springs...and when I installed the rear towing springs and the Tiguan front springs the rear was a 1/2+ inch higher than the front. I'm not sure about when it is loaded...when I loaded mine down (when I had the towing springs) it dropped maybe 3/4 inch max? I never used the Suplex springs though, I always bought OEM.

If you think they are too soft, you have two alternatives, the springs I bought (3C0511115AG) which are slightly stiffer than towing springs and another spring (1K0511115CG) which are likely noticeably stiffer. I don't think I know of anybody that has used the CG springs though and I would think that pairing those with the Tiguan SA rear strut would give a stiff ride. What I have (AG springs with the GTI rear sway bar and Tiguan Koni SA) is already firm.
 
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sinfony78

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houston, tx
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2010 sportwagen
If you think they are too soft, you have two alternatives, the springs I bought (3C0511115AG) which are slightly stiffer than towing springs and another spring (1K0511115CG) which are likely noticeably stiffer. I don't think I know of anybody that has used the CG springs though and I would think that pairing those with the Tiguan SA rear strut would give a stiff ride. What I have (AG springs with the GTI rear sway bar and Tiguan Koni SA) is already firm.
sorry, lots of info to refer to from back in this thread and so many posts, but I understand both AG and CG to be shorter travel than towing springs, although they have a higher spring rate?

i'm satisfied with current ride height and spring rate with the spacer in, just want to get rid of that rear clunk, so it looks like that tiguan SA from the link you sent should fix that since it allows for more travel.

the car actually feels great when i remove the spacer
 

Zygote Bros

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NNV
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2014 JSW TDI
sorry, lots of info to refer to from back in this thread and so many posts, but I understand both AG and CG to be shorter travel than towing springs, although they have a higher spring rate?
i'm satisfied with current ride height and spring rate with the spacer in, just want to get rid of that rear clunk, so it looks like that tiguan SA from the link you sent should fix that since it allows for more travel.
the car actually feels great when i remove the spacer
Yes, see post #487. AG apparently has the same spring wire diameter as Jetta Towing Springs (13mm) but one less coil. CG has thicker wire (13.25 vs 13.00mm).

Going to Tiguan struts in the rear should remove the clunk.
 
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