Is G12 replaced with G13?

[franky67]

Hello there.
Recently realized my coolant level is close to min.
I was planning to top it off but could not really find exact thing in auto parts stores.
Called the dealer nearby and I was told they only carry G13 for years.
Now,I have made some research on forum and other websites but most of them are dating few years back.
Just wanted to check after few years,did anyone experience any difference?
Can I just mix it with distilled water (50/50) and top it off?
Thanks a lot.
I hope this will be a reference to people like me(new to TDI).

 

[IndigoBlueWagon]

G13 is what you now have. Reverse compatible back to (but not including) G11. Usually it's sold undiluted, so you mix 50/50 as you suggest. Make sure you know whether or not you're buying a premix.

What does your collant bottle say? I'd be surprised if it (or the owners manual) doesn't say G13.

 

[Tom in PT]

FWIW, my '13 Passat TDI coolant bottle says G12, not G13. But , the car came from the factory with G13 - and the heater core clogged up at 27,000 miles or so.

I plan on a complete flush of the coolant and changing to G12 one of these days.

 

[IndigoBlueWagon]

G12 was put into use as a running change on or around 6/1/12. Labeling on coolant bottles may not keep up.

And I'm not aware that G12 has properties that would have prevented the heater core failures on Passats. I thought that was a heater core manufacturing defect.

 

[BKmetz]

I can demystify all the confusion about VW coolants. Start with this video. They talk about VW coolants around the 10 minute mark.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?reload=9&v=GUcTWzBZAdg

The take away from the video:

G11: Old school antifreeze/coolant. Contains silicates, borates, and nitrates.

G12: OAT antifreeze/coolant. No silicates, nitrate and borate free.

G12++: HOAT antifreeze/coolant. Contains some silicates. No nitrates or borates.

G13: HOAT antifreeze/coolant. Contains some silicates and glycerin made from renewable sources as a substitute to some of the ethylene glycol. No nitrates or borates.

I took this photo at a NAPA store a few months ago. This is the first time I saw all the Zerex products together. Not all NAPA stores stock all the varieties of Zerex coolant. A very brief description of each coolant starting from left to right.

Dex-Cool: Run away from anything that has Dex-Cool on the label. The first OAT (Organic Acid Technology) coolant This includes anything made by Prestone and Peak.

G40: VW G12++ and G13 compatible, HOAT (Hybrid Organic Acid technology). The hybrid means some silicates were added. Don't get all hung up on G13, it's not that special. All G13 is VW specifies a little bit of glycol derived from glycerine instead of 100% petrochemical based. The amount of glycerine based glycol is around 10% of the total glycol content.

G48: The old VW G11 formula, the green/blue stuff. Non-OAT formula, contains borates, phosphates, and silicates.

G05: a HOAT coolant that is basically the same formula as G12++. OAT technology with a small amount of silicates added.

Asian Blue & Asian red are the exact same coolants except for the color. My one son own a Toyota, Asian Red. Another son owns a Hyundai, Asian blue. Asian specification coolants are PHOSPHATED OAT coolants. An OAT coolant that contains phosphates is technically a HOAT coolant. The take away here is that not all HOAT coolants are created the same. That's why I included the Asian coolants. They also contain silicates but so do Euro spec HOAT coolants. Euro spec coolants DO NOT contain phosphates. Never use a coolant for Asian cars in any VW product.

NAPA and several TDI vendors carry Pentosin coolants. Here's a link with a good description of Pentosin's coolants.
http://www.pentosin.net/f_antifreeze.asp

Pentosin/Pentofrost E is G13 coolant, light purple cap, HOAT coolant, contains silicates and some glycol derived from glycerine.

Pentosin/Pentofrost ++ is G12++ coolant, dark purple cap, contains silicates.

Pentosin/Pentofrost SF is G12 coolant, red cap, OAT coolant, no silicates

Pentosin/Pentofrost NF is G11 coolant, blue cap

Drive more and worry less.

 

[oilhammer]

I should also add, that G11 is inky blue, it is NOT "blue-green". It is blue. Period.



There ARE coolants that are blue-green, as used in some Hyundai/Kia products, some Nissans, and some Hondas. All of these have been in older cars, and those same brands now use the Asian blue stuff.

Toyota's red coolant was replaced YEARS ago, the running change started around 2004-2006, depending on model/plant, with a prediluted pink coolant. Toyota specifies the red as "Long Life" and the pink as "Super Long Life", or SLL. These two coolants are NOT compatible, and cause cooling system degradation.

Every water cooled Volkswagen since the late '80s has, somewhere under the hood, a tag that specifies what coolant the car uses. Every 4cyl TDI has it printed on the coolant bottle. Which makes this extremely easy to keep track of.

G11, while not having been used by VAG since the 1996-97 changeover, is still used (they call it something else) by BMW, and some MB products have used it as recently as 2009. We get 906 Sprinters in here that have the blue coolant, the yellow coolant (G05... which Ford also used in most models for a long time), or pink G12 type. Ford also has "Specialty Green" and "Specialty Orange" coolants, again like VAG clearly labeled on most coolant bottles.

Regarding Dex-Cool: the formula for that has been changed multiple times, due to lots of problems for years on GM products. This is (was) a well known problem. The newest stuff, that GM uses, that their cars leave the factory with, is fine. However, in the aftermarket, the specifications may not reflect the ever-changing tag of what it means to be "Dex-cool GM approved". And I notice that many coolants, including the Zerex product pictured above, are orange, when in fact all GM vehicles built in the last 1.5 decades leave the factory with a more dark pink coolant. And if you buy genuine GM branded coolant, it will be this same red-pink color, NOT the old orange stuff that caused all the problems.

 

[franky67]

G13 is what you now have. Reverse compatible back to (but not including) G11. Usually it's sold undiluted, so you mix 50/50 as you suggest. Make sure you know whether or not you're buying a premix.

What does your collant bottle say? I'd be surprised if it (or the owners manual) doesn't say G13.

My coolant reservoir under the hood says G12.
I did not really check the owners manual honestly.
I thought I could find it online quickly, but then I realized the discussion about G12-G13 so decided to ask people that already experienced it ! Thanks a lot, I was told was not mixed so I will have to mix with distilled water.

 

[franky67]

I can demystify all the confusion about VW coolants. Start with this video. They talk about VW coolants around the 10 minute mark.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?reload=9&v=GUcTWzBZAdg

The take away from the video:

G11: Old school antifreeze/coolant. Contains silicates, borates, and nitrates.

G12: OAT antifreeze/coolant. No silicates, nitrate and borate free.

G12++: HOAT antifreeze/coolant. Contains some silicates. No nitrates or borates.

G13: HOAT antifreeze/coolant. Contains some silicates and glycerin made from renewable sources as a substitute to some of the ethylene glycol. No nitrates or borates.

I took this photo at a NAPA store a few months ago. This is the first time I saw all the Zerex products together. Not all NAPA stores stock all the varieties of Zerex coolant. A very brief description of each coolant starting from left to right.

Dex-Cool: Run away from anything that has Dex-Cool on the label. The first OAT (Organic Acid Technology) coolant This includes anything made by Prestone and Peak.

G40: VW G12++ and G13 compatible, HOAT (Hybrid Organic Acid technology). The hybrid means some silicates were added. Don't get all hung up on G13, it's not that special. All G13 is VW specifies a little bit of glycol derived from glycerine instead of 100% petrochemical based. The amount of glycerine based glycol is around 10% of the total glycol content.

G48: The old VW G11 formula, the green/blue stuff. Non-OAT formula, contains borates, phosphates, and silicates.

G05: a HOAT coolant that is basically the same formula as G12++. OAT technology with a small amount of silicates added.

Asian Blue & Asian red are the exact same coolants except for the color. My one son own a Toyota, Asian Red. Another son owns a Hyundai, Asian blue. Asian specification coolants are PHOSPHATED OAT coolants. An OAT coolant that contains phosphates is technically a HOAT coolant. The take away here is that not all HOAT coolants are created the same. That's why I included the Asian coolants. They also contain silicates but so do Euro spec HOAT coolants. Euro spec coolants DO NOT contain phosphates. Never use a coolant for Asian cars in any VW product.

NAPA and several TDI vendors carry Pentosin coolants. Here's a link with a good description of Pentosin's coolants.
http://www.pentosin.net/f_antifreeze.asp

Pentosin/Pentofrost E is G13 coolant, light purple cap, HOAT coolant, contains silicates and some glycol derived from glycerine.

Pentosin/Pentofrost ++ is G12++ coolant, dark purple cap, contains silicates.

Pentosin/Pentofrost SF is G12 coolant, red cap, OAT coolant, no silicates

Pentosin/Pentofrost NF is G11 coolant, blue cap

Drive more and worry less.

Thanks a lot for all this info! I will watch the video as soon as possible.

 

[franky67]

FYI I just called the VW dealer again,just in case there is another service advisor who knows more than the last one and I was told the same thing.
"We only have G13 which is compatible with your TDI and G12. Sold for 28$/gal. You have to mix it with distilled water,so you actually get 2 gallons."
I think the price is not too bad comparing to ones in Autozone or Napa. Since its OEM I will probably go with this.
Hope this helps.

 

[Jetta_Pilot]

Just checked Napa Canada and these are the G40 specs. Clearly says NOT to dilute! 3.78liter = one US gallon Cdn $ 23.95. I'm sure cheaper than dealer stuff. Strangely they list Audi, Bentley, Skoda, Seat and Porsche approved and one VW TL-774D ??? though all the other above cars are VAG products. So one would think if it's good enough for Bentley and Porsche a lowly VW should be OK too.



Specifications


Concentrate;Ready To Use Ready To Use Container Size 3.78L Dilution Ratio Do not dilute Environmentally Safe No Fluid Freeze Point 50% Antifreeze has a -34'F freezing point Fluid Freeze Point (Deg.F) 50% Antifreeze has a -34'F freezing point Manufacturer Part Number 875430 Specifications ASTM D3306; Mercedes Benz 325.5 Approved; ASTM D6210; VW TL-774D; Mercedes Truck; SAE J1034, J814, J1941; Porsche Approved; Audi Approved; Bentley; Skoda, Seat; Cummins 14603 Approved; MTU MTL 5048 Approved; Scania; Bugatti; Lamborghini; MAN 324 Type Si-OAT; Federal Specification A-A-870A; Detroit Diesel DDC 93K217-Approved Sub Brand G-40

 

[BKmetz]

VW TL-774D ???

That is VW's in house nomenclature for its coolant spec for G12.

Here is a breakdown of VW's nomenclature for coolants. Why is there is no TL-774 E? Because VW says so. Why does VW have several part numbers for the same coolant? Different size containers, 3.8L, 1.5L, etc.

G11: VW TL-774 C, VW part number
G-011-A8C-A1

G12: VW TL-774 D, VW part number
G-012-A8F-A4

G12+: VW TL-774 F, VW part numbers
G-012-A8F-A1
G-012-A8F-A8
G-012-A8F-M1
G-012-A8F-M8
G-012-A8F-M9

G12++: VW TL-774 G, VW part numbers
G-012-A8G-M1
G-012-A8G-M8
G-012-A8G-M9

G13: VW TL-774 J, VW part numbers
G-013-A8J-1G
G-013-A8J-M1

Drive more and worry less.

 

[BKmetz]

FYI I just called the VW dealer again, just in case there is another service advisor who knows more than the last one and I was told the same thing. "We only have G13 which is compatible with your TDI and G12. Sold for 28$/gal. You have to mix it with distilled water, so you actually get 2 gallons." I think the price is not too bad comparing to ones in Autozone or Napa. Since its OEM I will probably go with this.
Hope this helps.

VW service managers, techs, and parts people have to say that because that is the VW corporate position on its coolants.

If one takes a 1997 B4 Passat that came with G12 into a dealership for a new water pump, if the dealership doesn't have any G12 in stock, that car is getting G13. G13 is backwards compatible so VW installed the correct coolant.

Drive more and worry less.

 

[franky67]

Here is an update.
I bought the G13 and mixed it(50/50).
The color was as same as coolant, mine was close to min so I added about 400ml total. I believe 1 liter or little less than that its full capacity of reservoir. Just in case someone is wondering..
Thanks for your help!

 

[matt498]

Is the "peak brand" pink coolant equivalent to vw brand. I read a warning on the forum against dex cool. I can't find any reference to dex cool on the peak label

 

[IndigoBlueWagon]

I don't know that it is. If it doesn't say G13 on it I wouldn't use it.

 

[turbocharged798]

I don't recommend anyone do this but I run prestone dexcool in all my VWs as its a OAT similar to the original G12. Never had a problem, coolant at timing belt change still looks like brand new. Its cheap and I can get it anywhere unlike any VW coolant.

Problem with dexcool is that it was used with old school radiator cap systems with overflow bottles. This causes the dexcool to react with oxygen and cause all sorts of problems. I don't believe there is a VW in existence that uses the old school cap and overflow bottle.

 

[forrest resto`s]

 

[06bluebeetletdi]

Just replaced the oil filter housing on my ‘14 passat tdi, i bought all the parts at the dealer and the coolant is g12 in a black gallon jug 50/50 premix, my dealer said g13 (white jug) was for 2015s.

 

[d2freeman]

what is the part number of the G12 in the black jug?

 

[06bluebeetletdi]

Part # is g-a13-774-1g-dsp

 

[Nuje]

Is the "peak brand" pink coolant equivalent to vw brand. I read a warning on the forum against dex cool. I can't find any reference to dex cool on the peak label

I'm going to say "no" to that. Non-OEM brand VW-compatible coolants have been light-purple/lilac-colored for a few years. That's what I'd look for (as well as mention of G12/G13 compatibility).

As an aside, the only OEM stuff my dealer can get now is 50-50 pre-mix G12 ECO, which mixes fine with both G12 and G13; however, when mixed with G13, will turn it brown-ish (but VW's own tech bulletin says this is expected and does not affect capabilities). Regardless, I've loaded up on Pentosin G13 uncut. No thank-you to brown coolant .

 

[IndigoBlueWagon]

No thank-you to brown coolant .

This is why we decided not to stock it. I can imagine the phone calls.

 

[DaveyT]

Hello Franky67,

I've been researching the specs of Peak brand coolant for European vehicles (pink). What I've been reading here (tdiclub) is that certain ingredients should be avoided such as sillicate, phosphate, nitrite and borate. Going to the Peak website and looking at the specs (pasted below), do you think this is a safe alternative to the Pentosin/Pentofrost SF (G12)?

"PEAK ORIGINAL EQUIPMENT TECHNOLOGY ANTIFREEZE + COOLANT for EUROPEAN VEHICLES - PINK is an ethylene glycol-based antifreeze/coolant specifically developed for use in any European vehicle requiring a Pink silicate-free organic acid technology (OAT) formulation. It contains high-quality organic acid corrosion inhibitors and is free of borate, nitrite, nitrate, phosphate, silicate and amines chemicals."

Thank you,
DaveyT

 

[Nuje]

I mean, it sounds like it would be compatible, but my train of thought is "if I have any questions, why risk it?"

If it says G12 on the bottle, I know it's good - end of discussion. If it costs me an extra $5 or $10....small price to pay for peace of mind.

 

[BKmetz]

"PEAK ORIGINAL EQUIPMENT TECHNOLOGY ANTIFREEZE + COOLANT for EUROPEAN VEHICLES - PINK is an ethylene glycol-based antifreeze/coolant specifically developed for use in any European vehicle requiring a Pink silicate-free organic acid technology (OAT) formulation. It contains high-quality organic acid corrosion inhibitors and is free of borate, nitrite, nitrate, phosphate, silicate and amines chemicals."

That hits all the right buttons for use in a VW product.

 

[Nuje]

Looking at the PEAK website, I'd go with the violet colored option - it's the one they've designated for newer (2008-->) VW cars.

 

[eugene89us]

It sounds like the purple Peak is silicate-enhanced, which would make it similar to G12++ (same as Zerex G40) or G13 (if it contains glycerin). The pink Peak will be more like G12 - silicate-free. Silicates line the parts of the engine in a protective brown layer that looks like rust. But that is in fact silicate. It does create additional pitting protection. I absolutely hate it and the way it makes things look, but I reckon it is function over form for me. Zerex G40 has held up well so far, but I am also running a tune, which may not cook coolant as badly. But I don't ever think I will go to G13 with glycerin, that is what many deemed to be the reason it turns into goo and starts clogging things. Too much environmental friendliness that causes unnecessary repairs.

 

[740GLE]

when ever i see some one talking about Zerex, I think about ZaRex drink mix, which I'm guessing isn't too far off a half way decent antifreeze/anti corriosion coolant mixture as well.

 

[03TDICommuter]

Silicates line the parts of the engine in a protective brown layer that looks like rust. But that is in fact silicate.

Just a clarification that silicates are clear or gray-white, and coats surfaces with a glass like look. I've never seen it coat brown.

 

[eugene89us]

@03TDICommuter Then it is rust infused silicate precipitate. I am a State-licensed drug dealer, not a chemist. LOL. I read a study somewhere about silicate salts precipitating out in acidic coolant solutions. Coolant seems to degrade with high EGR temps and conglomerates of silica precipitate. I can't explain brown color, but the brown discolors everything including aluminum, it lines clogged heater cores and water pumps. So to reply to your correction of my statement (LOL): How DARE you?!