Why not he 1.4T instead?

426HPSS

Member
Joined
Apr 25, 2009
Location
TORONTO
TDI
2003 TDI
Why not the 1.4T instead?

Been a few years.
Was onto other cars and have recently bought a 19 Jetta 1.4T SEL 6 speed...in usa or Execline in Canuck land.
Simple premise. Amazing economy and amazing torque and power. No DPF and no fuel filters and NO expensive diesel fuel. Regular gas! I used to get 5.0 litres per 100 Kms in my old TDIs and now I get 4.8 litres on way to Montreal.
My question is simple. Is the diesel not truly dead now that VW has worked around the basis for buying it? My numbers are highway and dead accurate. Pump to pump and not on the sometimes inaccurate dash computer.
Cheapest fuel in Canada and usa is plain old regular...
Blown away by this powertrain...durability? Who knows....
Comments?
Expensive 508/509 spec oil though only avail at dealer here. What a VW control joke that is!! When out of warranty I will be going to Mobil 1 0-20 or 5-20 unless someone can tell me my engine will blow up with Mobil 1.
 
Last edited:

[486]

Top Post Dawg
Joined
Mar 1, 2014
Location
MN
TDI
02 golf ALH
4.8l/100km is 48 mi/usg for those of us south of the border
Very nice mileage. I've noticed similar with my mom getting 38 mpg out of an 09 corolla automatic, and she drives hard enough to go through a set of tires and brakes every 20k miles. Something about that variable valve timing just gets nutty fuel economy.
 

turbobrick240

Top Post Dawg
Joined
Nov 18, 2014
Location
maine
TDI
2011 vw golf tdi(gone to greener pastures), 2001 ford f250 powerstroke
No fuel filter?- that doesn't sound right. But yeah, new diesel cars are basically dead here. Cars in general are disappearing in favor of hulking SUV's, pickups, and crossovers. VW's 1.4t is a pretty darn good surrogate for a tdi from what I've been hearing.
 

426HPSS

Member
Joined
Apr 25, 2009
Location
TORONTO
TDI
2003 TDI
My apologies. Yes fuel filter but NO ongoing steady regular maintenance fuel filter as in a diesel.
Hey I love diesels but this has to be the best work around diesels around... In my opinion.
 

GoFaster

Moderator at Large
Joined
Jun 16, 1999
Location
Brampton, Ontario, Canada
TDI
2006 Jetta TDI
I've heard nothing but good things about the VW 1.4T.

Certain other manufacturers seem to have trouble getting good real-world fuel consumption out of downsized turbo gasoline engines (*cough* Ford), but this one seems to be for real.
 

Mike_04GolfTDI

Top Post Dawg
Joined
Nov 19, 2003
Location
Richmond, BC, Canada
TDI
Mine: 2019 Golf R DSG, Wife's: 2015 Golf Comfortline TDI
The real world fuel economy of the 1.4 TSI is about 7L/100km, which is not bad.

However, my TDI gets 5.6L/100km and with a stage 4 tune, has way more power.

Diesel here costs $1.38/L while regular gas is $1.63/L, so the 1.4 TSI would cost quite a bit more to drive.

Given that TDIs are no longer available, the 1.4 is a reasonable replacement, but it’s definitely not the same. I have driven a Jetta TSI and it’s just....meh. Decent A to B transportation for sure, but not a TDI.
 

turbobrick240

Top Post Dawg
Joined
Nov 18, 2014
Location
maine
TDI
2011 vw golf tdi(gone to greener pastures), 2001 ford f250 powerstroke
Assuming the OP lives in the real world too, his fuel savings with the 1.4T seems legit. Mazda, Toyota, and others also have some impressively efficient gasoline 4 cylinder engines these days. When you factor in the lack of emissions equipment that modern diesels are saddled with, they are almost certainly considerably more reliable.
 

tikal

Veteran Member
Joined
Apr 18, 2001
Location
Southeast Texas
TDI
2004 Passat Wagon (chainless + 5 MT + GDE tune)
Millions of miles of experience!

Here is thought to consider: When comparing passenger vehicle efficiencies you want to look at the expected (average) MPG based on as large database as possible. Here is what Fuelly.com shows for the 2017 Jetta with the 1.4T engine (CZTA):

"Based on data from 67 vehicles, 3,755 fuel-ups and 1,580,398 miles of driving, the 2017 Volkswagen Jetta gets a combined Avg MPG of 36.38 with a 0.18 MPG margin of error."

This is equivalent to 6.47 L/100 Km
 

turbobrick240

Top Post Dawg
Joined
Nov 18, 2014
Location
maine
TDI
2011 vw golf tdi(gone to greener pastures), 2001 ford f250 powerstroke
The combined Fuelly rating for a '15 jetta tdi is 41 mpg. Around here that would make the 1.4T burning RUG @ 36 mpg slightly cheaper to fuel.
 
Last edited:

scooperhsd

Top Post Dawg
Joined
Aug 19, 2003
Location
Kansas City KS
TDI
NB, 2000, RED(5 Speed conversion) 2015 Golf SE
I think I would prefer a larger turbocharged engine - say, the 2.0T in the Tiguan.


I'm not so crazy about Ford's EcoBoost engines either.
 

tikal

Veteran Member
Joined
Apr 18, 2001
Location
Southeast Texas
TDI
2004 Passat Wagon (chainless + 5 MT + GDE tune)
Of course, as we all know, the size of the vehicle matters in terms of the cost/benefit of diesel vs gasoline. The larger the vehicle the better cost/benefit for the diesel vs the gasoline.

For the American standards a VW Jetta would be considered a relatively small sedan. The newer VW Tiguan is probably where a TDI engine would do well in terms of mass/size (37.6 ft³ of cargo space) ratio to efficiency and performance (torque) and would be a vehicle that the average American would prefer over a sedan (even over a Passat which is larger than the Jetta).
 

Dannyboy

Veteran Member
Joined
May 25, 2013
Location
Mb
TDI
2014
I think I would prefer a larger turbocharged engine - say, the 2.0T in the Tiguan.


I'm not so crazy about Ford's EcoBoost engines either.
My wifes 1.8t 2015 golf gets about 5l -5.5l on the highway which is nearly what my tdi does , sometimes better than my tdi. Little less torque at 200 ftlbs but more top end at 170 hp. I was surprised, earlier gen 1.8ts gave the large displacement engines a bad name and I was skeptical. VW got the gen3 ea888 engines right.

Pity north America didn't get the 1.2t or 1.0t , quite nippy in smaller cars but of course everyone wants SUVs nowadays so definitely not going to see them this side of the pond.
 

turbocharged798

Veteran Member
Joined
May 21, 2009
Location
Ellenville, NY
TDI
99.5 black ALH Jetta;09 Gasser Jetta
Of course, as we all know, the size of the vehicle matters in terms of the cost/benefit of diesel vs gasoline. The larger the vehicle the better cost/benefit for the diesel vs the gasoline.

For the American standards a VW Jetta would be considered a relatively small sedan. The newer VW Tiguan is probably where a TDI engine would do well in terms of mass/size (37.6 ft³ of cargo space) ratio to efficiency and performance (torque) and would be a vehicle that the average American would prefer over a sedan (even over a Passat which is larger than the Jetta).
I don't consider the MK5 and newer Jettas to be small cars. They keep getting bigger every generation. I believe the MK7 jetta is bigger than a MK5 passat. I don't understand this, not everyone wants huge cars. Its to the point now there is no new cars I really want to buy. Just imagine the VW 1.4T in a small aerodynamic car, 50+mpg on regular gas would be no problem.
 

turbobrick240

Top Post Dawg
Joined
Nov 18, 2014
Location
maine
TDI
2011 vw golf tdi(gone to greener pastures), 2001 ford f250 powerstroke
5 passengers? There must be a clown convention in town. :D
 

GoFaster

Moderator at Large
Joined
Jun 16, 1999
Location
Brampton, Ontario, Canada
TDI
2006 Jetta TDI
... except that most cars spend most of the time lightly loaded, so it's hardly relevant what full-load operation does.

... and it seems that VW has figured out the calibration on that engine pretty decently, so that it does not have to go into thermal protection mode (rich) very much.

... and if you are driving on the highway, it scarcely matters if you add weight. The aero matters more, and that's not changed by adding passengers.

Different situation with trucks. Some people do tow trailers. The Ecoboosts are quite thirsty when doing that.
 

IndigoBlueWagon

TDIClub Enthusiast, Principal IDParts, Vendor , w/
Joined
Aug 16, 2004
Location
South of Boston
TDI
'97 Passat, '99.5 Golf, '02 Jetta Wagon, '15 GSW
That is a nice drivetrain. I've driven it in a couple cars, and aside from the revs hanging on shifts I like it.

But Fuelly data supports my belief that that drivetrain won't get the same FE as an older TDI in daily use. Same as a new, fixed, one? It may come close. And with the fuel price difference the cost per mile may well be similar, if not lower for the 1.4T.

Depends on what you like. From what I read the 1.4T isn't plagued with some of the issues that the 2.0TSI and TFSI engines have, like failing timing tensioners and water pumps. But as more cars build up miles perhaps we'll learn something.

If you like it, great. I still prefer diesel for many reasons.
 

03GolfTDI

Veteran Member
Joined
May 4, 2003
Location
Atlanta, GA
TDI
'12 JSW DSG and '11 JSW DSG
I have not driven the 1.4T yet but its specs are pretty impressive, pretty much matches the output of the original 1.8T from back in 1998ish. The reveiws online seem pretty legit.

I drove a 1.8T in a 2015 Jetta SE (180HP) and was not a huge fan of dead response from a get go until the turbo got up to speed, my other half test drove both a Jetta SE 1.8T and the '11 TDI in the signature back to back and felt the 1.8T did not have the same getup and go as the TDI and much preferred the TDI powerband.
 

Mike_04GolfTDI

Top Post Dawg
Joined
Nov 19, 2003
Location
Richmond, BC, Canada
TDI
Mine: 2019 Golf R DSG, Wife's: 2015 Golf Comfortline TDI
I drove a 1.8T in a 2015 Jetta SE (180HP) and was not a huge fan of dead response from a get go until the turbo got up to speed, my other half test drove both a Jetta SE 1.8T and the '11 TDI in the signature back to back and felt the 1.8T did not have the same getup and go as the TDI and much preferred the TDI powerband.
I noticed the same thing with the 1.4 tsi. It’s just kind of dead feeling until it hits its power band and then it takes off. Feels weird to a TDI driver.

It is a good engine, but I’m not going to tell VW that it’s wonderful and I wouldn’t rather have a TDI. Maybe they’ll reintroduce them in the future with a working emissions system.
 

IndigoBlueWagon

TDIClub Enthusiast, Principal IDParts, Vendor , w/
Joined
Aug 16, 2004
Location
South of Boston
TDI
'97 Passat, '99.5 Golf, '02 Jetta Wagon, '15 GSW
I've found all of VW's turbo gas engines have noticeable lag. Much more so than TDIs.
 

Dannyboy

Veteran Member
Joined
May 25, 2013
Location
Mb
TDI
2014
I've found all of VW's turbo gas engines have noticeable lag. Much more so than TDIs.
Good tune sorts that out pretty quick ;)

The safety and emission parameters in the stock software are pretty invasive when you mash the pedal. All about increasing longevity of engine and keeping EPA happy. You should see the new Audi ttrs, they really dialed down the fierce boost due to the new GPFs they installed to meet new emissions regulations and it's very noticeable.
 

IndigoBlueWagon

TDIClub Enthusiast, Principal IDParts, Vendor , w/
Joined
Aug 16, 2004
Location
South of Boston
TDI
'97 Passat, '99.5 Golf, '02 Jetta Wagon, '15 GSW
Also Car & Driver noted that the top gear acceleration in the 1.4T/6-speed manual (in a Golf, not Jetta) was beyond pathetic. Of course you can just downshift, but that's the benefit of a TDI. Don't have to do that.
 

oilhammer

Certified Volkswagen Nut & Vendor
Joined
Dec 11, 2001
Location
outside St Louis (where it's safe)
TDI
There are just too many to list....
I think that is a decent engine. It is no TDI, and a similar displacement diesel would tag 60+ MPGs (they actually have those, and they actually do). But for the post-Dieselgate wasteland of the USA, if you want a fuel efficient small vehicle your choices are limited, and getting more so by the week it seems.

Volkswagen went too far to one end with the last generation of TDIs in gracing them with lots of power but not any better fuel economy. In other words, the technology was lost to what VoA/VAG thought more Americans wanted. And no doubt the power of the CBEA/CJAA/CKRA/etc. is fantastic, as it happens I drove a customer's 2014 JSW in to work today, and let me tell you, even saddled with the DSG, totally stock this car runs VERY good down the highway. However a lot of us, who drive a lot, and who factor fuel economy pretty high up, would have gladly purchased a ~1.5L CR TDI or even a 3cyl with similar HP to the ALH or BEW and been perfectly happy with that as it would have accompanied that 60+ MPGs. I know I would.

At least the 1.4t is so far proving to be better than the 1.8/2.0 EA888 engines. Every time I think I have seen it all, something new crops up on those turds. We've had several 2015+ cars in here that are burning through oil to the tune of about 1 liter every 800 miles or so. That is ridiculous. :rolleyes:
 

Rob Mayercik

Veteran Member
Joined
Dec 19, 2001
Location
NJ, U.S.A.
TDI
2002 Jetta GLS, Baltic Green/Beige
We've had several 2015+ cars in here that are burning through oil to the tune of about 1 liter every 800 miles or so. That is ridiculous. :rolleyes:
What, did they install the rings on the pistons upside down again like they did with the 2.0s back in the early MKIV days?
 

oilhammer

Certified Volkswagen Nut & Vendor
Joined
Dec 11, 2001
Location
outside St Louis (where it's safe)
TDI
There are just too many to list....
No idea, but of course like all manufacturers, they have an obscene amount of "acceptable" oil consumption, which most of these will fall under, so it isn't necessarily like they are going to do anything about it. There are specific engines that just seem to be abysmally bad, though, and once it starts, it only gets worse and worse, until eventually either the engine gets replaced or the owner/operator learns to use the dipstick frequently. Most of the time the engine blows up though.
 

Dannyboy

Veteran Member
Joined
May 25, 2013
Location
Mb
TDI
2014
Good old 2 slow engines, burn as much oil as they do fuel but they just keep on ticking. My step-son has 260k on his ,oil consumption isnt bad at a liter per 10k though
 

Matt-98AHU

Loose Nut Behind the Wheel Vendor
Joined
Apr 23, 2006
Location
Vallejo, CA
TDI
2014 Passat SE DSG, 2005 Passat wagon, 2004 Touareg V10.
I think that is a decent engine. It is no TDI, and a similar displacement diesel would tag 60+ MPGs (they actually have those, and they actually do). But for the post-Dieselgate wasteland of the USA, if you want a fuel efficient small vehicle your choices are limited, and getting more so by the week it seems.
Volkswagen went too far to one end with the last generation of TDIs in gracing them with lots of power but not any better fuel economy. In other words, the technology was lost to what VoA/VAG thought more Americans wanted. And no doubt the power of the CBEA/CJAA/CKRA/etc. is fantastic, as it happens I drove a customer's 2014 JSW in to work today, and let me tell you, even saddled with the DSG, totally stock this car runs VERY good down the highway. However a lot of us, who drive a lot, and who factor fuel economy pretty high up, would have gladly purchased a ~1.5L CR TDI or even a 3cyl with similar HP to the ALH or BEW and been perfectly happy with that as it would have accompanied that 60+ MPGs. I know I would.
At least the 1.4t is so far proving to be better than the 1.8/2.0 EA888 engines. Every time I think I have seen it all, something new crops up on those turds. We've had several 2015+ cars in here that are burning through oil to the tune of about 1 liter every 800 miles or so. That is ridiculous. :rolleyes:
I definitely keep eyeballing what the 1.6 CR TDIs do in Europe and so wish we could get those here. The fuel economy those get, even in a Mk7 Golf, is nuts.

The 1.4TSI looks more solid than the EA888s because it's not one. lol! It has a timing belt, for one. Which seems to be more reliable than VAG timing chains, sadly.

Also doesn't have that flimsy barely bonded together rear main seal.... or crappy monstrosity of a water pump assembly that will inevitably puke all the engine's coolant out in a matter of seconds without warning. Wonder if it will suffer from the TSI floppy wastegate syndrome as it ages?
 
Top