W8 to tdi conversion front brake job $!

[otty]

A warning to anyone considering a W8 front brake upgrade or a W8 swap:

I had to go to my local shop rather than my usual knowledgeable mechanic (3 hours hard mountain drive away) for a terrible noise from the front passenger side wheel. Turned out a brake pad (4/side) had delaminated and came loose. The shop also found one caliper piston was seized (if I believe him). He insisted on doing the rotors as well or "take it elsewhere". He wanted to replace the other caliper too as "preventative maintenance". I said no.

These brake pads and rotors were replaced 2 years and about 30k km ago probably with Napa garbage.

$1100 quote from the local shop for one caliper, both rotors, pads, brake fluid flush and labour (parts all Napa crap).

W8 oem part prices per side, front:

VW caliper - $800 or so
Lucas caliper - $550 or so
Good pads - $200 or so
Good rotors - $150 or so

These prices from my trusted shop.

Either way, these are bank breaking brakes! I always found my Jetta stopped just fine.

Think twice...

 

[imo000]

Delamination usually happens when a car is not driven much or if it is parked for an extended period of time. Brand normally has nothing to do with it. Since your parts are not cheap, time to learn how to do them.

 

[Nash_TDI]

I am doing the w8 brake upgrade to my Tdi. I have less than 500-600 in my full upgrade. That's new rotors, akebono pads, fully rebuild and powder coated calipers, and I had to upgrade spindles.

 

[Windex]

What size wheels are required for W8 brakes? Do they require different spindles?

 

[otty]

Regarding the car sitting it is driven every day and had just done a 1500km trip.

Ya, I see a lot of reman calipers for cheap including the Napa ones but my mechanic says not to expect more than a year or two out of them.

Really don't have the time to DIY these days and this needed to be fixed right away.

 

[otty]

What size wheels are required for W8 brakes? Do they require different spindles?

The stock wheel sizes were either 16" or 17". The 16s barely fit. I run 16s in the winter and 17s in the summer.

 

[Nash_TDI]

There is a steel and aluminum version of the spindles. The aluminum ones offer 7lb weight savings. Prob cancels out the weight of the brakes themselves. Good write up here:

http://www.passatworld.com/forums/6...iy-b5-s4-brake-conversion-b5-b5-5-passat.html

Rebuilding calipers:

http://www.a4mods.com/index.php?page=webcontent/pages/caliperrebuild.html

 

[abctdi]

Still on my OEMs that work just fine...

 

[otty]

So today 70KM after the new Napa caliper install, brake pedal went right to the floor on a nice steep hill. Thank god for engine braking!

Brought back to the shop, the caliper had failed with a bolt failing and detaching it from the rotor. Napa manager was called in. He will be paying for $900 VW replacement and all labour.

Nota bad result in the end - and no one got killed!

 

[Windex]

So today 70KM after the new Napa caliper install, brake pedal went right to the floor on a nice steep hill. Thank god for engine braking!

Brought back to the shop, the caliper had failed with a bolt failing and detaching it from the rotor. Napa manager was called in. He will be paying for $900 VW replacement and all labour.

Nota bad result in the end - and no one got killed!

Sorry, what actually failed here?

 

[otty]

Sorry, what actually failed here?

I am not sure I can explain it better. The Napa caliper just installed apparently was faulty in a way that allowed it to rather than squeeze the rotor, to push itself away from the rotor, until it was detached and almost no braking power left. That is how they explained it. Apparently Napa agreed it was a faulty caliper and felt their neck to the point where they offered to purchase the VW caliper as warrantee.

 

[Uberhare]

Sounds like they didn't torque the mounting bolts properly. Technician failure, not caliper.

 

[Antsrcool]

Sounds like someone forgot to tighten the caliper.

 

[otty]

Sounds like they didn't torque the mounting bolts properly. Technician failure, not caliper.

You may be right. I will probably never know. I do know that Napa took responsibility for a broken bolt. The shop was so mad they are boycotting Napa for now. Small town, I know it's true.

Even if the caliper was fine they are convinced the bolt was faulty and called foul for bad parts as I understand it. Caliper is no good With bad bolts...

 

[imo000]

Sounds to me you have no idea what happened here, only know the story the shop fed you. Itis quet possible that the shop is blaming NAPA. They then cooked up a story to tell you where NAPA is the bad guy. When in reality it was their screw up, threy are paying fornthe replacement caliper (better check to make sure it is NEW OE and not another reman.). Then they told you a story that they are boycotting NAPA when NAPA was never involved in this. Call NAPA and check the story.

 

[Abacus]

NAPA will go along with the garage so they don't lose business, but it sounds like the garage screwed up. My garage does over $20,000 a month business with NAPA and have parts delivered on demand, so they want to keep the garage happy at all costs.

NAPA has some decent parts and some have a lifetime warranty. Personally, I have found their calipers to be of better quality (lasting longer) than many vendor's on here and they're 1/2 the price.

 

[otty]

You guys may well be right. As I said before, I will likely never know.

I only use this shop in emergencies. Only about 5 shops in town and 2 have already completely lost my trust through dishonesty or incompetence (or both). My go-to shop three hours drive away would show me how the part broke, explain everything to me and get me better prices on parts and do the job right the first time....

 

[otty]

Well, I have the car back and it stops nicely

The replaced caliper is a brand new Lucas unit. Just noticed that the other caliper ( original afaik) is also Lucas. So all is well, no matter who the culprit was!!

 

[imo000]

The rebuilt one was Lucas too?

 

[otty]

No the rebuilt one that failed looked quite different. I never noticed what the manufacturer name on it was...

 

[otty]

So I said earlier in this thread that 16" wheels fit over the w8 brakes. My 16" winter steelies used to fit before the brake job but now they don't! I am wondering if maybe the fresh and thicker brake pads caused this? It was always a very tight fit. Maybe the rotors were installed wrong?

Really hope I don't have to upsize the rims. Recently bough 4 new winter Michelins... any ideas? any steelies that are still 16" with a different shape that will fit?

 

[otty]

So I said earlier in this thread that 16" wheels fit over the w8 brakes. My 16" winter steelies used to fit before the brake job but now they don't! I am wondering if maybe the fresh and thicker brake pads caused this? It was always a very tight fit. Maybe the rotors were installed wrong?

Really hope I don't have to upsize the rims. Recently bough 4 new winter Michelins... any ideas? any steelies that are still 16" with a different shape that will fit?

 

[Nash_TDI]

If they fit before they can fit again. Try a small spacer. Could easily get away with a 5-10mm spacer in front. 3mm you can use stock bolts still.

 

[otty]

Thanks Nash, that sounds like a simple solution. Should I install the spacers on all four wheels to keep things even or does it really matter?

 

[Benjamin]

Wondering if got the bigger caliper as a replacement.

Looking at a major supplier to napa and shops for vw's online pricing they list 2 different calipers for the w8 4.0 passat. There is a 321mm and a 334mm disc caliper for the front. Don't know if you can put the wrong rotor/caliper and still have it work, but I figured I would point this out.

 

[imo000]

Since you don't know much about cars, let me ask this. What part of the caliper is hitting the rim? The back of the caliper of the side?

 

[otty]

The side of the caliper facing away from the car was rubbing.

I got a set of 10mm spacers and problem is solved. The wheel fit just fine now! Thanks Nash

 

[otty]

The side of the caliper facing away from the car was rubbing.

I got a set of 10mm spacers and problem is solved. The wheel fit just fine now! Thanks Nash

 

[mogly]

The side of the caliper facing away from the car was rubbing.

I got a set of 10mm spacers and problem is solved. The wheel fit just fine now! Thanks Nash

10mm is getting rather thick with standard lugs. Did you test them on the back of the rim with a lug to see what kind of engagement you're getting? I've bought cars in the past with spacers and more than once I was shocked at how little threads were actually holding the rims on.

 

[otty]

I bought lugs that were 10mm longer