VW Won't Attempt to Regain Diesel Leadership in US; Many TDI Models May Never Return

ApriliaNut

Veteran Member
Joined
Jun 4, 2008
Location
SoCal
TDI
06 pkg 1 Jetta 191k w/Malone Stage 2
Not only did they lie about it, but they appear to be showing no remorse whatsoever.
Their tactics are to just pay-off or buyback their customers with money.
Totally unethical in my books.
Suggestions otherwise?!?

I mean this is a capitalistic society (I think) still. Happens all the time with crooks on Wall Street or banks that get caught in the act in the SEC's eyes.

Reuters: "Hoogadonah, Hoogadonah, Hoogadonah and McCormick has been charged with a $500m fine for unfair consumer practices in the hog futures market"....
 
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RBTDI

Well-known member
Joined
Aug 28, 2013
Location
OH-IO
TDI
2014 VW Passat TDI SEL, Night Blue / Titan Black
I'm going to stand just over here and throw this can of gas on the fire...
Quote:
20 16 01 - 2044124 Fuel Tank Will Not Take Fuel or is Hard to Fill Completely
Model(s) Year .........Eng. Code..........Trans. Code VIN Range From VIN Range To
Passat 2012–2014..2.0 TDI CKRA......All..............All.................... All
Passat 2015..........2.0 TDI CVCA......All..............All.................... All
Customer states the fuel tank is hard to fill or will not take fuel.
Production Solution: Improved vent line design and routing starting with model year 2017 Passat TDI production
How many people think that was just a typo of brain fart?
How old is this - before Dieselgate?
And what is it?
 

Gary Barnhill

Veteran Member
Joined
Oct 17, 2001
Location
Corona del Mar, CA
TDI
2013 Passat TDI SE SR & Nav
VW has shrewd managment

If VW attempted to claw their way back into the TDI market: how much profit could they make on two years of TDI sales?

As this thread has shown; the anticipation is: used TDI prices will skyrocket and sway many to Modify instead of BuyBack.

Indeed, I sold two 5-year old Jettas for almost MSRP in 2008 after CA banned diesel sales for five years.

My present choice: VW pays me $28,727 for a 5-year old Passat or pays me $7200 to modify my Passat.

Originally, this was an easy choice; take the BuyBack.

But now used TDI may be worth MSRP or more. So more people will choose Modification. In my case: VW saves $21,527 less some minor Modification costs.

I'd guess VW is saving on the order of $5 Billion by creating a scarcity scenario where Modification is a better choice than BuyBack. Way more money than VW could profit selling TDI under the watchful EPA eye selling a "stained" image.

Moreover, I think VW deliberately created the scarcity scenario knowing it could save them billions and billion in payouts by limiting their exposure to only Modification costs.

The BuyBacks and Mod will be done by end of 2018. After 2019 the EPA raises the emissions stakes so high it doesn't make sense to attempt to meet them.

Congratulations VW, well played!!
 
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TDIMeister

Phd of TDIClub Enthusiast, Moderator at Large
Joined
May 1, 1999
Location
Canada
TDI
TDI
The most interesting comment was from a young lad, probably not more than 23 years old and an owner of a TDI who stood up and said, "well, I'm going to get mine fixed, take the money, and then get it unfixed". That's our future club member representative speaking.
Ahh to be young again... I was 23 when I joined TDIClub 17 years ago... :eek:
 

n1acguy

Veteran Member
Joined
Oct 1, 2012
Location
S. Ca.
TDI
13 Passat TDI DSG SE/Sunroof
Fact is you can go to any rental place and grab the cheapest, smallest, most miserable little penalty box turd of a car you can get your hands on, and even with its slushbox (or worse, a CVT) you can turn the key, it'll start right up, throw it in "D", and stab the go pedal and inside of 45 seconds be tagging triple digit speeds. That is pretty amazing, IMHO.
Ha! I just had a 16 Malibu for a rental. I was impressed with the power and smooth delivery of the little 1.5 liter engine. Moved the mid sized sedan adequately and got 32 MPG all around.
Of course those are force fed
 

turboboost1

Veteran Member
Joined
Oct 12, 2010
Location
NH
TDI
None, Did the buyback
Not only did they lie about it, but they appear to be showing no remorse whatsoever.
Their tactics are to just pay-off or buyback their customers with money.
Totally unethical in my books.
This is the main reason they are getting mine back as soon as possible. I'm done with VW.... Forever..
 

goldgary

Well-known member
Joined
Sep 16, 2008
Location
NH
TDI
2012 Passat 6M
The BuyBacks and Mod will be done by end of 2018. After 2019 the EPA raises the emissions stakes so high it doesn't make sense to attempt to meet them.

What are emission standards for big trucks, 18 wheelers and such. Are they the same or exempt.
 

oilhammer

Certified Volkswagen Nut & Vendor
Joined
Dec 11, 2001
Location
outside St Louis (where it's safe)
TDI
There are just too many to list....
The BuyBacks and Mod will be done by end of 2018. After 2019 the EPA raises the emissions stakes so high it doesn't make sense to attempt to meet them.

What are emission standards for big trucks, 18 wheelers and such. Are they the same or exempt.

The regulations are different for larger heavier vehicles, based on GVWR. Usually the first cut point is 8500 pounds, so this is why all your 3/4 ton trucks and vans, and even the last of the "half" ton Ford E-vans are placed conveniently right about this. Usually in the 8550 to 8600 and maybe 9500 range.

Not sure how it is tiered from there, assume 12k, 18k, 24k, etc. But they are ALL getting stricter, the bigger trucks still have some room left in them, but not much, and passenger cars are up against the ceiling of what is realistic and achievable within the boundaries of cost. The EPA wants ICEs gone, period.
 

gearheadgrrrl

Veteran Member
Joined
Dec 15, 2002
Location
Buffalo Ridge (southwest Minnesota)
TDI
'15 Golf DSG, '13 JSW DSG surrendered to VW, '03 Golf 2 door manual
EPA demanding better fuel economy for big trucks

For 2017 and later years the EPA is demanding better fuel economy for big trucks, but the emissions standards are staying pretty much the same.
 

Bora-chiara

Veteran Member
Joined
Jun 7, 2007
Location
San Tan Valley, Arizona
TDI
ALH, BHW, CKRA
n1das, aja8888 it was a pleasure meeting you this weekend! I too am quite saddened for the news but I had no intention of unloading my ALH or my BHW anytime soon. The ALH has over 236k miles but is as healthy as any ALH right off the lot. The body in great shape and just had some stuff done. I own it outright for years. Other than a negligent driver hitting me there is no reason why this car cannot last me a large number of years to come.

More than anything though, I am concerned with the decision. With how efficient VW has been able to make the gassers, it is a marginal different from those to the TDIs with mileage for VW. With how much engineering and fuss to meet continually increasing requirements from CARB, it makes sense for VW to continue the TSI development. I hate that and I hate that even a CR stripped of all exhaust treatment still emits less NOx than my ALH and my ALH is completely street legal. That doesn't justify the lies though...
 

bglf83

Active member
Joined
Oct 15, 2014
Location
Texas
TDI
Jetta
That would be a huge disappointment at the fuel pump.

I just transported 5,300 pounds of cargo to Alaska with my 2003 sprinter (I had a trailer hooked up along with cargo in the van), and I averaged 20 MPG doing it, that will never happen with a gasser under the hood...
Be a big disappointment on a hill too...
 

TDIMeister

Phd of TDIClub Enthusiast, Moderator at Large
Joined
May 1, 1999
Location
Canada
TDI
TDI
As one who astutely regards history, I believe Dieselgate shall pass for VAG. People have hilariously short memory- and attention spans. It might take 30 years, like GM's Diesel debacle, but even if Diesel almost completely disappears from automobiles (and gasoline engines too, by extension), internal combustion engines of some form or another will still rule for trucks, locomotives, ships, generators, etc. The rate of blowover would be greatly accelerated when - not if - crude oil hits triple digits again.
 

Salsaman06

Veteran Member
Joined
Dec 30, 2012
Location
Texas
TDI
2013 Passat TDI SEL (sold back to VWoA Dec 21, 2016)
Uh... Ram, Ford, Chevy will stop making the famously popular TD work trucks?

Luxury TD diesel entries from Audi, MB, BMW will disappear?

What are you smoking?

Diesel will be available (ULS, per EPA mandate!!!). All of the new gas stations around here have diesel pumps. Tank up and drive.

The things I hear on this website amaze me!

Doom and gloom dopes. Really, grab some smelling salts!
I completely agree. I've seen nothing but an INCREASE in availability of diesel here in South Texas. Not because of TDI's but the big pickups. (this is big SUV country after all)

And yeah I am rethinking about reselling and just keep the Passat. There are some things that really annoy me about the car but so many things I love besides the diesel that I can't really find elsewhere. And after considering the warranty on the engine and emissions components will extend for me to 10yr/120K, it is really hard to give the car up. Those that are looking at the buyback thinking that it is a financial boon and anyone would be an idiot not to take are potentially idiots themselves if they are going to buy a replacement vehicle while their TDI does not have excess mileage. It simply does not make financial sense. But selling back for other reasons (don't trust VW, want a diff car, etc) is a different story.
 

Salsaman06

Veteran Member
Joined
Dec 30, 2012
Location
Texas
TDI
2013 Passat TDI SEL (sold back to VWoA Dec 21, 2016)
...Many here don't remember when the Gov wanted to get rid of crazy horsepower back in the "day" (1970's) and the auto companies complied and started putting out "toothless wonders" like a low 200's HP Corvette, 4 cylinder Mustangs, etc. ...

I do remember when this happened but it wasn't a gov't war on HP. it was the beginning of emissions controls that largely caused the HP drop mainly because they had to drop the compression ratios (due to removing lead outta the gas) and introduced EGR to help reduce emissions. They didn't get the EGR right at first (duh) and it tended to choke the engine severely. I remember many an owner removing the EGR altogether because of this. But to your point and in addition to reduced compression ratios, insurance companies most likely played a role in the HP decline specifically.

I remember my parents bought a brand new 1969 Pontiac Bonneville with a 428 4bbl V8. Had 360 hp, crazy stump pulling 472 ft-lbs - 10.5:1 compression, 4-bolt mains, dual exhausts - all from the factory. God I loved that car - amazing power. But they had to get rid of it after 3 years. The gas had changed so drastically - no lead and less octane. The engine pinged so bad with that new gas that it was the reason dad traded it in for an emissions chocked '73 Bonneville (400 2bbl 8.5:1) which ended up being a huge POS. Then they traded that in for a 1978 Mercury Grand Marquis - a fantastic luxury car at the time - nothing today rides as smooth. But it had an anemic 400 V8 2bbl, 330 ft-lbs but only 160 hp. and with a 2.50 rear end that thing was a pig. Emissions .... necessary but a real buzz kill.
 
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oilhammer

Certified Volkswagen Nut & Vendor
Joined
Dec 11, 2001
Location
outside St Louis (where it's safe)
TDI
There are just too many to list....
I do remember when this happened but it wasn't a gov't war on HP. it was the beginning of emissions controls that largely caused the HP drop mainly because they had to drop the compression ratios (due to removing lead outta the gas) and introduced EGR to help reduce emissions. They didn't get the EGR right at first (duh) and it tended to choke the engine severely. I remember many an owner removing the EGR altogether because of this. But to your point and in addition to reduced compression ratios, insurance companies most likely played a role in the HP decline specifically.

I remember my parents bought a brand new 1969 Pontiac Bonneville with a 428 4bbl V8. Had 360 hp, crazy stump pulling 472 ft-lbs - 10.5:1 compression, 4-bolt mains, dual exhausts - all from the factory. God I loved that car - amazing power. But they had to get rid of it after 3 years. The gas had changed so drastically - no lead and less octane. The engine pinged so bad with that new gas that it was the reason dad traded it in for an emissions chocked '73 Bonneville (400 2bbl 8.5:1) which ended up being a huge POS. Then they traded that in for a 1978 Mercury Grand Marquis - a fantastic luxury car at the time - nothing today rides as smooth. But it had an anemic 400 V8 2bbl, 330 ft-lbs but only 160 hp. and with a 2.50 rear end that thing was a pig. Emissions .... necessary but a real buzz kill.
Yep, but that was Detroit... with their heads stuck in their butt. Other companies didn't have that problem. The 1.8L EFI engine in our 1975 Volkswagen bus ran perfect, all the time, hot or cold, and it made MORE power than the twin carb version it replaced. Honda's CVCC system was a successful means for emissions and fuel economy without hindering performance. Volvo brought Bosch's Lambda feedback system into the marketplace in the '70s, too.

Really a shame how Detroit, a place that had some real innovation in the '50s and '60s, just curled up and about died during the '70s. GM had some really forward thinking stuff in the '60s, that may not have been perfect because it never had the time to mature, but they did have it. Fuel injection, the IRS/transaxle in the rear of the Tempest, the belt driven SOHC Pontiac I6, heck to some extent the Corvair line was pretty advanced...they even had turbocharged versions. All aluminum V8s in the early '60s like in the Oldsmobile F85. The Corvette's mechanicals had some neat for the time stuff, too.
 

atc98002

Veteran Member
Joined
Nov 24, 2006
Location
Auburn WA
TDI
2014 Passat TDI SEL Premium (sold back), 2009 Jetta (sold back), 80 Rabbit diesel (long gone)
I do remember when this happened but it wasn't a gov't war on HP. it was the beginning of emissions controls that largely caused the HP drop mainly because they had to drop the compression ratios (due to removing lead outta the gas) and introduced EGR to help reduce emissions. They didn't get the EGR right at first (duh) and it tended to choke the engine severely. I remember many an owner removing the EGR altogether because of this. But to your point and in addition to reduced compression ratios, insurance companies most likely played a role in the HP decline specifically.

I remember my parents bought a brand new 1969 Pontiac Bonneville with a 428 4bbl V8. Had 360 hp, crazy stump pulling 472 ft-lbs - 10.5:1 compression, 4-bolt mains, dual exhausts - all from the factory. God I loved that car - amazing power. But they had to get rid of it after 3 years. The gas had changed so drastically - no lead and less octane. The engine pinged so bad with that new gas that it was the reason dad traded it in for an emissions chocked '73 Bonneville (400 2bbl 8.5:1) which ended up being a huge POS. Then they traded that in for a 1978 Mercury Grand Marquis - a fantastic luxury car at the time - nothing today rides as smooth. But it had an anemic 400 V8 2bbl, 330 ft-lbs but only 160 hp. and with a 2.50 rear end that thing was a pig. Emissions .... necessary but a real buzz kill.
Don't forget that they also changed from SAE to net HP. That change alone really dropped the ratings a bunch. The Mopar 426 Hemi dropped from 425 HP to something like 350, even though nothing else had changed. Don't quote those numbers, though. I'm relying on memory. Not always a good thing for me! :p
 

respond2us

Veteran Member
Joined
Nov 5, 2004
Location
Tulsa, Oklahoma
TDI
Jetta, 99.5, Custom - Funky Green. 99 NB TDI, 06 Jetta TDI
This is terrible that VW might be out of TDI business. Dang... I LOVE these cars. Glad I've got another one on the way... Might be hanging on to my 2 '10 JSW's for awhile.
 

frugality

Top Post Dawg
Joined
Sep 19, 2003
Location
Spring Lake, Michigan
TDI
none, 2016 GTI
I put 481,000 combined miles on a 2000 Golf TDI and a 2010 JSW TDI. Since I've been doing a lot of travel for work, and the JSW was going to need some maintenance soon when after the scandal hit (2nd exhaust flap, brakes original at 197k), I pulled the trigger on a 2016 GTI in April and will return the JSW to VW. 10k miles on the GTI now. No regrets. Personally, I like not having to deal with regens, and love the smooth power and more torque. Averaging 32mpg in highway-biased driving. Gas prices have been favorable lately, and will continue when the fall fuel-oil ramp-up happens soon. Love the refinement of the GTI. I was fine with my V-twin Honda NT700V, since it was a little vibey like my TDI, but now that I've been in the GTI, I'm thinking I need a smoother motorcycle, because the NT700V feels crude. :)

It's unfortunate that VW's mistake helped drive the nail in the coffin that the EPA/CARB had already been preparing for passenger diesels anyway. I don't like limiting options. However, the complexity of TDIs was getting harder and harder to justify when gassers have been improving in mileage and torque.
 
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