VW Won't Attempt to Regain Diesel Leadership in US; Many TDI Models May Never Return

BlueGruff

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Jun 2, 2016
Location
California
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2013 JSW DSG; 2017 Jetta 1.8T Sedan
"Now we have it from the top. Hinrich J. Woebcken, president and CEO of Volkswagen Group of America, told us that “I wish to make clear that the push for diesel for the brand is done” in North America....

http://blog.caranddriver.com/volksw...ship-in-u-s-many-tdi-models-may-never-return/


I had a strong feeling this would be VW 's position. I'll definitely choose buyback option.


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oilhammer

Certified Volkswagen Nut & Vendor
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Location
outside St Louis (where it's safe)
TDI
There are just too many to list....
And that would galvanize my decision to KEEP my car, as well as try and buy up any more I can. Starting the process of converting a gasser to a diesel right now, too.
 

aja8888

Top Post Dawg
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Dec 25, 2007
Location
Texas..RETIRED 12/31/17
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Out of TDI's
What will become desirable and sought after VW autos will be well kept MKIV and MKV TDI's and common rail diesels with a DPF delete and tune.
 

Cptcrnch

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FredCo MD
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2004 Jetta TDI wagon; 2014 Golf TDI (buyback 7/26/17)
Just another reason why not taking the buyback makes sense for me. I'll either take the fix/money (and then perform my own fix) or take no action (for the foreseeable future we have no diesel testing in MD). I just renewed my registration and I'm good for 2 more years at least.
 

KERMA

Vendor , w/Business number
Joined
Sep 23, 2001
Location
here
TDI
99 beetle and 04 jetta
this is going to be another 95 passat.

when they stopped making those B5.5 Passats the value of the used cars skyrocketed. in 2006 folks were paying $10k *MORE* than the original MSRP for a 2 year old car with 40k miles!!!

And 15 years later the ALH are still going strong, even if they are getting somewhat long in the tooth. They have come down in value of late but up until a year or two ago they were commanding ridiculous used car prices for their age. And there are probably 4x the number of common rail cars than all the '96-2006 cars combined at this point. So there is quite a bit of life left in them as used cars at least.

Hopefully VW re-applies for 2016 certification on the cars already here, and lets the 2015 that were already on the lot go for sale. I know if that happens I will be snagging one right quick.

I kind of hope that VW would keep one or two models with diesel. At least the passat and maybe golf sportwagen or something. There's no other car with the same fuel economy that drives like it. They are awesome cars for those with longer commutes and unmatched road trip cars too. There is definitely a market niche that needs filling. You could fit a lot of emissions controls into a 5k premium, and I'll bet people would still pay it. But of course if they did that the market share of diesels would not be as large. But they should keep it going in some capacity.

Get em while you can!
 

MrSprdSheet

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East Coast
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'09 JSW TDI
At the very least, VW would've had to have both electric and diesel along side traditional gasers if they kept going. With Euro regs inching closer to 95gr/km CO2, and U.S. limited market ZEV requirements (CARB states), at least some electrification had to happen. I'm still surprised they're dumping diesel entirely. The U.S. is quickly becoming two markets, and one does seem to be getting the shaft.
 

740GLE

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NH
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2015 Passat SEL, 2017 Alltrack SE; BB 2010 Sedan Man; 2012 Passat,

ZippyNH

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2015 JETTA TDI SE
Kinda implies that DIESEL will be a product still sold in SPECFIC cases....just like what BMW does....
 

tonestar

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Tri-State New York
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2006 Golf TDI (Canadian Import) 5 Speed, 2015 Golf TDI SE DSG, 2015 Jetta TDI SE (connectivity) DSG
My 2006 with 44k original miles just got a little more valuable
 

Perfectreign

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Jul 20, 2013
Location
Los Angeles
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2000 Jetta GLS 5-speed
Wow, that's unfortunate.

I cannot wait until the EPA/CARB ban electric vehicles because of the heavy metal pollution we'll be seeing in our groundwater in about fifteen years.
 

aja8888

Top Post Dawg
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Dec 25, 2007
Location
Texas..RETIRED 12/31/17
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Out of TDI's
I just got to the Fest in Sturgeon Bay today after driving the 2014 Passat SE TDI 1500 miles from Texas @ 75 MPH (cruise set) and A/C on all the way. Just checked mileage and got 45.6 MPG for the trip. This Passat is quite a road car. Maybe I'll keep it and the 2003 Jetta TDI now.
 

tadawson

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Lewisville, TX
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2013 Passat TDI SEL, 2015 Passat TDI SEL
Yup, this made the entire issue one of *must* keep, and maintain as long as possible . . . and when the day comes that that can no longer be done, go to MB or BMW, or someone who still has diesel . . . I *really* don't want an e-turd . . . :-( :-(
 

dubStrom

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Location
Kansas City Missouri
TDI
2003 A4 Jetta (sold), 2010 JSW (sold), 2013 Passat 6MT traded for 2014 JSW with 6MT-TOTALED in November 2016, 2003 ALH 5MT conversion (sold), NEW 2015 GSW/DSG and an '07 Ram 6.7L Cummins Turbo Diesel quad-cab Laramie 4x4 p'up
And my 2014 JSW TDI will be worth even more. Not that I care. Won't be selling.

Look at my other posts. Value goes UP, not down. Sell if you are stupid of just want a new car.

Got a spare $15k? Buy one if you can find it. Be selective, but DO IT!!

It is ALL about market, and dollars. Choose quickly.

After restitution and good will $1000, my JSW will cost me below 20k (0 miles, driven off the lot). Wow. Wish I owned another one.
 
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BuyMeBackSoon

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Jun 3, 2016
Location
Or
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2013 golf
Lower volume of future fuel sales will dry up the stations carrying diesel. Can't escape market forces. Charging stations will be more prevalent.
 

St.Hubbins

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Mar 16, 2010
Location
Nashville
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'10 Golf, DSG / '11 A3, DSG (both went buyback) - '15 GSW SE
dang. i wonder if there's not a tinge of petulance to this announcement. "We tried to enlighten you stupid Americans on the superior value of diesel, but it's all Prius/Leaf or Yukon/Denali/Kilimanjaro with you simpletons!"

i hope that sound i hear isn't the price of used Audi TDI's going through the roof :(
 

k1xv

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Joined
Apr 4, 2009
Location
southern Vermont
TDI
09 TDI sedan, sold back 12/16. Present cars 2013 BMW X5 diesel, 2015 Corvette convertible
Lower volume of future fuel sales will dry up the stations carrying diesel. Can't escape market forces. Charging stations will be more prevalent.
I rarely see a TDI at the gas stations I visit. I suspect the greatest volume of diesel sold to non-commercial drivers goes into diesel pickup trucks.
 

dubStrom

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Location
Kansas City Missouri
TDI
2003 A4 Jetta (sold), 2010 JSW (sold), 2013 Passat 6MT traded for 2014 JSW with 6MT-TOTALED in November 2016, 2003 ALH 5MT conversion (sold), NEW 2015 GSW/DSG and an '07 Ram 6.7L Cummins Turbo Diesel quad-cab Laramie 4x4 p'up
Uh... Ram, Ford, Chevy will stop making the famously popular TD work trucks?

Luxury TD diesel entries from Audi, MB, BMW will disappear?

What are you smoking?

Diesel will be available (ULS, per EPA mandate!!!). All of the new gas stations around here have diesel pumps. Tank up and drive.

The things I hear on this website amaze me!

Doom and gloom dopes. Really, grab some smelling salts!
 
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linux_author

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Fahrvergnügen
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Phase II Emissions modified 2015 Golf TDI S SportWagen
Lower volume of future fuel sales will dry up the stations carrying diesel. Can't escape market forces. Charging stations will be more prevalent.
that may be true in congested urban areas within the next 20 years (can't wait for the news stories of slap fights between e-car owners for free charge station access or folks 'stealing' electricity for charging), but the low price of oil has put a damper on the wailing and gnashing of teeth by the Peak Oil nutjobs and has rained on the Skittles parade of Musk melon heads

diesel is going to be around for quite some time

willie
on the non-CARB-state Gulf of Mexico
 

gearheadgrrrl

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Buffalo Ridge (southwest Minnesota)
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'15 Golf DSG, '13 JSW DSG surrendered to VW, '03 Golf 2 door manual
If you look at the market for big trucks, diesel still has 98-99% of the market. While a few big fleets buying natural gas makes headlines, the market share for natural gas remains around 1-2%. In fact, there are more sales of big trucks without engines ("gliders") that buyers will install pre-2007 emissions engines in that sales of natural gas trucks. Yup, 5-10% of new big trucks are being sold without engines so the customers can get around emissions requirements by fitting an older diesel engine. There are no electric or even hybrid big trucks available, despite the abundant PR fluff being produced...
 

ZippyNH

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Southern NH
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2015 JETTA TDI SE
If you look at the market for big trucks, diesel still has 98-99% of the market. While a few big fleets buying natural gas makes headlines, the market share for natural gas remains around 1-2%. In fact, there are more sales of big trucks without engines ("gliders") that buyers will install pre-2007 emissions engines in that sales of natural gas trucks. Yup, 5-10% of new big trucks are being sold without engines so the customers can get around emissions requirements by fitting an older diesel engine. There are no electric or even hybrid big trucks available, despite the abundant PR fluff being produced...
The last year you can buy a glider and install a non-emissions motor is 2018...had read the EPA closed that loophole....my company actually has 90% gliders....and with a 15+ year life....they will be around a long time running 100,000+ miles a year....I expect them to be on the road until they are no longer economical fuel wise due to their simplicity and reliability.
 

ZippyNH

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Southern NH
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2015 JETTA TDI SE
The fact DIESEL might be done in the USA should not be a huge surprise.....even PRE dieselgate.....how many years had VW tried to get Americans to buy them in volume?
They had didn't big $$ advertising, and had gotten minimal traction.....
The fact that a bad event has made me step back, and reevaluate their north American strategy is no surprise....heck, many European countries have started moving AWAY from DIESEL....small turbo gassers are taking over...lower inital costs, and easier to make emissions legal and a history of "dirty" diesels in Europe make folks look at them as "progress"....
The pullback from DIESEL will take years....and it sounds like they will match the basic strategy of BMW in the USA...nitche diesel at a premium price to make $$ on motors they already own and have developed...

Is it the end...no...is the sky falling...no...but things are changing....and since VW is obligated to try more electric, they are going to use it as an opportunity to try to get the jump on other makers....let's face it the VW hybrids have been a failure...
 

chadbag

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Location
Utah
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2x 2013 JSW (1 manual BOUGHT BACK 12/20/16, 1 DSG BOUGHT BACK 1/14/17), Audi A3 e-tron gas-plugin-hybrid, gas Volvo V60
Lower volume of future fuel sales will dry up the stations carrying diesel. Can't escape market forces. Charging stations will be more prevalent.
At least in the free part of the US, most diesel sold at retail is for the pickup truck market. Almost every station (including one of the Costcos) in our area carries diesel. And while I see a lot of TDIs on the road, there are more diesel pickups and their tanks are twice as big as the JSW and 2.5 to 3 times as big as the GSW tank.

You won't see EV (electric vehicles) take off in any volume until the technology is a lot better. We are talking a decade at least and maybe 2 decades. You will have to have 500 mile range on full, 80% charge 400 mile, and that with real driving -- highway speed, hilly and mountainous, as well as stop and go and city traffic all in one trip, with A/C going for the EV to replace the gas/diesel car in the US. People are used to being able to drive 350-500 miles on a tank of gas, highway speed (75-80+), up hills, down hills, with A/C blaring or in the deep winter. They are not going to take a step back to 200 mile range (of real driving -- 300+ mile range car will get 200 miles of real driving at highway speed, hilly terrain, A/C blaring, or deep winter). And the 80% charge will have to be 10 minutes or less. The only place you will see major EV headway inside a decade will be in the really urbanized areas. We are still a long way from that technology for much larger capacity and much faster charging.

And there is no infrastructure to support it. And you will have to build all that infrastructure on a mega scale to support this mass of EV cars being predicted.

EV cars *are* the future. In 20 or more years.

In the meantime, the plugin-hybrid will be a stepping stone to EV majority, because you can use the EV mode (20-50 miles) for most of your daily driving [a majority -- I know some people have longer commutes] but you can always switch to gasoline mode when you need to drive far, and can do a 5 minute fill up of your tank and keep going.

Even the very latest announced 100kwh Tesla would not allow me to drive from SLC to Las Vegas without a major re-charging stop. It is supposed to be 300-370 miles but at 80mph up and down the mountains with A/C on I bet it is no where near 300 miles. Even the supercharger from Tesla takes over an hour to get an 85kwh car to 90%. That won't cut it on a road trip and SLC to Las Vegas is not that far -- about 425 miles depending on where you stop and where you end in Vegas.
 
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k1xv

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Location
southern Vermont
TDI
09 TDI sedan, sold back 12/16. Present cars 2013 BMW X5 diesel, 2015 Corvette convertible
And that is why you will never see a Tesla based car in the 24 hours of LeMans.
 

aja8888

Top Post Dawg
Joined
Dec 25, 2007
Location
Texas..RETIRED 12/31/17
TDI
Out of TDI's
At least in the free part of the US, most diesel sold at retail is for the pickup truck market. Almost every station (including one of the Costcos) in our area carries diesel. And while I see a lot of TDIs on the road, there are more diesel pickups and their tanks are twice as bug as the JSW and 2.5 to 3 times as big as the GSW tank.
You won't see EV (electric vehicles) take off in any volume until the technology is a lot better. We are talking a decade at least and maybe 2 decades. You will have to have 500 mile range on full, 80% charge 400 mile, and that with real driving -- highway speed, hilly and mountainous, as well as stop and go and city traffic all in one trip, with A/C going for the EV to replace the gas/diesel car in the US. People are used to being able to drive 350-500 miles on a tank of gas, highway speed (75-80+), up hills, down hills, with A/C blaring or in the deep winter. They are not going to take a step back to 200 mile range (of real driving -- 300+ mile range car will get 200 miles of real driving at highway speed, hilly terrain, A/C blaring, or deep winter). And the 80% charge will have to be 10 minutes or less. The only place you will see major EV headway inside a decade will be in the really urbanized areas. We are still a long way from that technology for much larger capacity and much faster charging.
And there is no infrastructure to support it. And you will have to build all that infrastructure on a mega scale to support this mass of EV cars being predicted.
EV cars *are* the future. In 20 or more years.
In the meantime, the plugin-hybrid will be a stepping stone to EV majority, because you can use the EV mode (20-50 miles) for most of your daily driving [a majority -- I know some people have longer commutes] but you can always switch to gasoline mode when you need to drive far, and can do a 5 minute fill up of your tank and keep going.
Even the very latest announced 100kwh Tesla would not allow me to drive from SLC to Las Vegas without a major re-charging stop. It is supposed to be 300-370 miles but at 80mph up and down the mountains with A/C on I bet it is no where near 300 miles. Even the supercharger from Tesla takes over an hour to get an 85kwh car to 90%. That won't cut it on a road trip and SLC to Las Vegas is not that far -- about 425 miles depending on where you stop and where you end in Vegas.
On the money post. Very realistic. ;)
 

dubStrom

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Aug 6, 2007
Location
Kansas City Missouri
TDI
2003 A4 Jetta (sold), 2010 JSW (sold), 2013 Passat 6MT traded for 2014 JSW with 6MT-TOTALED in November 2016, 2003 ALH 5MT conversion (sold), NEW 2015 GSW/DSG and an '07 Ram 6.7L Cummins Turbo Diesel quad-cab Laramie 4x4 p'up
On the money post. Very realistic. ;)
And while the smaller fleet of TD autos with smaller fuel tanks don't represent the lion's share of the market, the big TD trucks will continue to drive the

availability if Ultra low Sulfur Diesel for decades.
 

ZippyNH

Veteran Member
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Apr 22, 2015
Location
Southern NH
TDI
2015 JETTA TDI SE
What does that mean?
Outside of highly regulated states like Massachusetts and California....
Was thinking you might be joking....
But some folks actually forget...just move to "NH, home of live free or die" or most other rural is state...it's like day and night...nobody telling you what to do or legislation say you must....
 
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