Volkswagen's Clean Air Act violations on 2009+ TDIs spark huge recall, investigations

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Vidgamer

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Seeing mention of the RAV4, I'm struck by the irony: I bought my 2015 TDI after owning the previous generation RAV4 for a few years during which I actually had several problems. The rear suspension required a recall and then subsequent work. Then the RAV4 started consuming oil like it was going out of style, requiring frequent top-offs, which I discovered was a known issue with that generation. All this with about 100K when I got rid of it. I hope they ironed the kinks out of it. It was practical, albeit very boring to drive.
Are you saying that you bought a TDI while looking for a more reliable car, after having owned the RAV4? I don't recall having any serious problems with our '12 RAV4 -- it gets really good gas mileage for an SUV and is pretty decent. But generally, 100K seems to be the magic number of miles where I have problems with most cars. :-(
 

johnmharte

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This is what I'm doing today after my USAA posts on this thread yesterday and the potential difference in a total loss right now.
I'll be calling multiple insurance companies to try and insure our JSW for a specific amount of money, say $20-22k. It's silly but for a little higher premium a month, it's best to insure that risk. I'm wondering if a company like Hagertys would do a specific cash policy, given that's similar to how their classic car insurance works.
When there is potential to loose something like $6-10k in a total loss vs. VW's possible buyout, you have to make these risk based decisions. I'm not happy to be in this position, we could have bought the Prius V back in 2012 and not have any of these issues. But...a Prius V doesn't come in a manual and it drives like crap.
In our case, we have owned the JSW from 2012, so no GAP coverage is out there for us to use. We also have two other cars. The wife just requested that I replace the clutch/brake pedal pads in the E39 so they aren't so slippery! Once that is done and I replace the rear rotors and parking brake shoes. The BMW E39 is car #2 and the TDI goes into our storage unit/garage. The E39 will of course promptly break in a way that they often do. ;)
Extra storage coverage would help...and that could work... might be what I do. If the total loss happens from the storage unit... then I would be covered for that extra $$. Minus the $5k VW check of course.

What I'm looking at is "Agreed Value" payouts.
https://www.lelandwest.com/stated-value-vs-agreed-value-classic-car-insurance.cfm

I visited my insurance agent today and we discussed my car being in a total loss scenario and what he could do for me, I parked the car a couple weeks back, we ended up placing storage insurance on it and I'll let it sit while it is in one piece and running until I see what Volkswagen will offer.
There is only a handful of Volkswagen dealers in Kentucky and about 3800 effected cars, so it will not be as bad as major cities
 
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Rico567

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<snip> I'm wondering if a company like Hagertys would do a specific cash policy, given that's similar to how their classic car insurance works.
<snip>
But I think classic car insurance is based on very specific mileage limitations, so you'd have to live with that. They might be able to write some casualty policy on unlimited mileage, but the premium might be pretty unlimited, too. Maybe.
 

Zmanzz

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But to qwell the trial lawyers and appease customers, VW has agreed to a buyback. But I doubt VW cares to unjustly enrich folks whose TDIs can easily be brought into compliance with buybacks for way over market price.
Just curious where you get they can easily be brought into compliance ('15s)? Or is that a guess?
I just haven't read that to be true or else common sense would dictate that would have been done already?
My understanding is if the catalyst isnt sized right to begin with you could dump Olympic sized pool quantities at it and it will not do anything more.
 

AlexNJ

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Question Please. YEAR? TRIM? 4wd - or 2wd? --- 4 banger I guess?
It was a 2006 I-4 auto AWD Limited, the first year in that iteration of the RAV4 when Toyota significantly increased its size from the previous generation. It was very practical but, like I said, boring to drive. The oil consumption problem turned out to be common with that model so I'd hope Toyota has addressed that in this current iteration. Oh, and hopefully cabin noise has been reduced.
 

Jeta Life

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AlexNJ :)


Wife HAD to have a new 2015 RAV4 LIMITED ... has only 5,800 miles .. obviously no problems ... YET


Question Please. YEAR? TRIM? 4wd - or 2wd? --- 4 banger I guess?

... and thanks
Hey Oke man,

As you may know a whole more than me on the small SUV segment, I will PM you shortly just to get a sense of your family's purchasing decision to go with the RAV4 Limited.

Realize the forum rules and don't want to be disrespectful, so will PM you.

2 guys at my job have the RAV4.

Thanks
 

AlexNJ

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Are you saying that you bought a TDI while looking for a more reliable car, after having owned the RAV4? I don't recall having any serious problems with our '12 RAV4 -- it gets really good gas mileage for an SUV and is pretty decent. But generally, 100K seems to be the magic number of miles where I have problems with most cars. :-(
Same here, to judge from my experience with an Accord and then the RAV4. Let's just say that my experience with the RAV4 reminded me that no car (or auto maker) is perfect. I figured if there's no guarantee of trouble-free ownership, I might as well have a car that's fun to drive while still practical and economical. Driving 1200 miles in a Mark VII Golf in the UK before they were available here convinced me to take the plunge. Deep down, I had the feeling that owning a VW would probably have some degree of drama down the road. I just never imagined, a year and a half ago, that it would be this kind of drama. Still, I love my TDI. I just hate the company that made it.
 

TCBinaflash

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You are 100% Correct. When the offer is set, it will be set. Any that do not wish to accept it will certainly be free to retain an attorney and file suit individually. However, they need to understand that the attorney will rake off 40% to 50% of any judgement as his payment. In the end, such people will be very dissatisfied with their 'net' settlement compared to what everyone else received.
If the bonus money is $5k- the september FMV$ ($16500) adding these puts me near MSRP for a 2012.

Even if I filed suit individual and won double MSRP I won't fair better than what is potentially being offered

Also: please guys, take it easy with all the mods and whatnots you guys have bought. We get it, you bought stuff.
 

bubbagumpshrimp

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If the bonus money is $5k- the september FMV$ ($16500) adding these puts me near MSRP for a 2012.

Even if I filed suit individual and won double MSRP I won't fair better than what is potentially being offered

Also: please guys, take it easy with all the mods and whatnots you guys have bought. We get it, you bought stuff.
Yup. It's not like it's a news flash that mods are money down the toilet (unless you pull them and sell them when you unload the car).
 

2015vwgolfdiesel

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It was a 2006 I-4 auto AWD Limited, the first year in that iteration of the RAV4 when Toyota significantly increased its size from the previous generation. It was very practical but, like I said, boring to drive. The oil consumption problem turned out to be common with that model so I'd hope Toyota has addressed that in this current iteration. Oh, and hopefully cabin noise has been reduced.
Thank you for the info:)

... her car is quiet complex to me ... the NAVIGATION is wonderful. First month we had the car she had to drive to Oklahoma City. ..

Nightmare for me to drive ... we just verbally said the address ... dam thing all but drove it self ... even when I missed a turn .. it just piut us back on the right road.

was a little pricey for our budget ...

... and Thanks again
 

meerschm

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shovelhd

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Same here, to judge from my experience with an Accord and then the RAV4. Let's just say that my experience with the RAV4 reminded me that no car (or auto maker) is perfect. I figured if there's no guarantee of trouble-free ownership, I might as well have a car that's fun to drive while still practical and economical. Driving 1200 miles in a Mark VII Golf in the UK before they were available here convinced me to take the plunge. Deep down, I had the feeling that owning a VW would probably have some degree of drama down the road. I just never imagined, a year and a half ago, that it would be this kind of drama. Still, I love my TDI. I just hate the company that made it.
My wife replaced her 2008 Highlander Hybrid SUV with a 2016 RAV4 Hybrid Limited. The Highlander gave her 185,000 trouble free miles right up until the very end, when it started using oil at an increasingly alarming rate. At trade in time it was using a quart every three weeks, and it didn't leak a drop (3.3l V6). I still got $8k for it at trade in. The RAV4 is chock full of technology which can be equally helpful and irritating at the same time. After reading the manual cover to cover, the first thing I figured out was how to turn off as many chimes as possible. It has a nasty blind spot but the radar warning system fixes that. I don't like the high tail and short rear window, which makes it dependent on the rear camera and parking radar, and is somewhat confining. The interior is classic Japanese style but well designed with good materials, at least in the Limited. The ride was harsh at first but has since mellowed out a bit. We routinely beat the EPA mileage just driving normally. 35mpg combined is very achievable, which is pretty good for a small AWD SUV. If you are looking at RAV4's you have to look at the Hybrid. The difference is only about a grand, making it a heck of a deal. We bought in March just after they started to ship, and the best I could do was $500 over invoice for a locate. You should be able to do better now.
 

autdi

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What is really interesting is the link to the CCC presentation where a couple of researchers reverse engineered the code in the ECU, locating how the cheat was implemented, then were able to play with what was happening to the car while in cheat mode, or out of cheat mode.

Also shown, the mode is entered on a set number of conditions, mainly set by the driving cycle matching the drive cycle of the test. So all these unplug this or that sensor may be part of the unlock criteria, but the underlying enabler is the time vs speed pattern that has to match.

https://media.ccc.de/v/32c3-7331-the_exhaust_emissions_scandal_dieselgate

The presentation video, understand this is from a security conference, although not black hat or def-con, so there is much less drinking going on with the presenters. Seeing the video fills in a lot of the blanks on the slide set.
 

autdi

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2015vwgolfdiesel

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Yup. It's not like it's a news flash that mods are money down the toilet (unless you pull them and sell them when you unload the car).
Morning bubba

... as I am the dumbest idiot on the planet... when you remove said MODs ... will it be possible to replace the original parts:confused:
 

bring

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My wife replaced her 2008 Highlander Hybrid SUV with a 2016 RAV4 Hybrid Limited.

My 75 year old father just bought a Lexus NX 300h (same as the RAV4 hybrid) - he proudly stated to me last weekend that he is getting 34 mpg.

My wife drives the RX 450h and gets 28 mpg, mostly around town.
 

Mrs. Peel

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First post here, long time lurker. Sorry if I missed this in earlier posts, but we bought our 2009 JSW the same week VW announced they had cheated (around 9/4/15), though we didn't know about it until the EPA announced it a couple weeks later. Has there been any talk about the date of ownership requirement for the settlement that will be announced in June or is that still an unknown too?

We were pretty devastated to hear about all this right after we bought the car, especially since it has tons of accessories and had been maintained like new by the previous owner (a TDI forum member).
 

laminated

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Simple thought on a recall,, when they recall a stroller,a baby seat, a toaster etc, When have they said,, We will give you a pro rated value because its used?? Never,, They screwed up. they have defrauded you.
 

mjLyco

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My wife replaced her 2008 Highlander Hybrid SUV with a 2016 RAV4 Hybrid Limited. The Highlander gave her 185,000 trouble free miles right up until the very end, when it started using oil at an increasingly alarming rate. At trade in time it was using a quart every three weeks, and it didn't leak a drop (3.3l V6). I still got $8k for it at trade in. The RAV4 is chock full of technology which can be equally helpful and irritating at the same time. After reading the manual cover to cover, the first thing I figured out was how to turn off as many chimes as possible. It has a nasty blind spot but the radar warning system fixes that. I don't like the high tail and short rear window, which makes it dependent on the rear camera and parking radar, and is somewhat confining. The interior is classic Japanese style but well designed with good materials, at least in the Limited. The ride was harsh at first but has since mellowed out a bit. We routinely beat the EPA mileage just driving normally. 35mpg combined is very achievable, which is pretty good for a small AWD SUV. If you are looking at RAV4's you have to look at the Hybrid. The difference is only about a grand, making it a heck of a deal. We bought in March just after they started to ship, and the best I could do was $500 over invoice for a locate. You should be able to do better now.
Small quibbles.. I'm pretty sure the parking and blind spot monitoring systems use sonar not radar. Ultrasonic sound instead of microwaves. 35mpg combined in an AWD SUV is Class leading. 35 combined is great for a car, let alone an SUV. Especially one that goes 0-60 in ~7.8s.

If you're looking at a Rav 4, Go Hybrid or go cheapest version they make. The Hybrid platform is so damn good, and way faster. The only downside is the "AWD" uses a separate electric motor for the rear wheels, not a center diff. The non hybrid can lock the center diff and send 100% of the power to the back. However... 99.99% of people driving a Rav 4 will never need this.

I went with the CX-5 for the handling and driving dynamics bump. (Hate CVTs, love taking racing lines) With my lead food I average a very respectable 27mpg in my AWD GT model with a similar ~7.8s 0-60 time. Great compared to the competition... but far from 35mpg.
 
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bubbagumpshrimp

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Morning bubba

... as I am the dumbest idiot on the planet... when you remove said MODs ... will it be possible to replace the original parts:confused:
Every time I modified a vehicle...I kept the stock parts. That serves two purposes: 1. A modified vehicle appeals to a narrower audience (makes it potentially more difficult to find a buyer), and 2. If you pull the "upgraded" parts and reinstall the stock ones...you can recoup some of the money you spent on the mods AND make the car appeal to a wider audience.

Vehicles are not investments. At least not run of the mill compact/economy cars. It never ceases to amaze me when I see a classified ad with someone attempting to essentially tack onto the KBB price (which tends to be high to begin with) by adding...dollar for dollar...the cost of parts and labor for the mods on their car.

MOST people don't want to buy someone's polished turd. They want a car that's either unmolested, or as close to that as possible.
 

CTDCRD

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Simple thought on a recall,, when they recall a stroller,a baby seat, a toaster etc, When have they said,, We will give you a pro rated value because its used?? Never,, They screwed up. they have defrauded you.

And that's just for an error in design, not a planned cheat.
 

bring

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The Hybrid platform is so damn good, and way faster. The only downside is the "AWD" uses a separate electric motor for the rear wheels, not a center diff.

The awd RX hybrid drives too much like a front wheel drive car. Taking a right or left from a stop you really experience torque steer. I would prefer more power sent to the rear axle also.
 

mjLyco

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The awd RX hybrid drives too much like a front wheel drive car. Taking a right or left from a stop you really experience torque steer. I would prefer more power sent to the rear axle also.
Unfortunately the RX450h uses the same AWD system as the Rav4. There is no drive shaft going to the rear wheels. The rear wheels simply have their own electric motor. It can't send any more power back there. This is one reason I chose the CX-5. No torque steer no understeer. I can turn the wheel to make a 90˚ right turn from a stop and floor it. No fuss from the tires.

That said, the RX goes 0-60 a full second faster than my car and gets better mpg while doing it.
 
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LogicBomb

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Unfortunately the RX450h uses the same AWD system as the Rav4. There is no drive shaft going to the rear wheels. The rear wheels simple have their own electric motor. It can't send any more power back there. This is one reason I chose the CX-5. No torque steer no understeer. I can turn the wheel to make a 90˚ right turn from a stop and floor it. No fuss from the tires.
That said, the RX goes 0-60 a full second faster than my car and gets better mpg while doing it.

I really like the look of the CX-5, I just wish it had a little more "juice" under the hood.
 

mjLyco

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I really like the look of the CX-5, I just wish it had a little more "juice" under the hood.
That seems the be the consensus from all the reviewers and most of the owners as well. Great car, needs a bigger engine. I think we'll have to wait for the next generation for a bigger engine. The rear diff and center diff are tiny and I doubt they could handle 250hp.

Also, don't buy a 2016+ Mazda thinking you can mod the engine. It's pretty much tapped out for power. The 2017 CX-9's 2.5L turbo engine looks promising. Here's hoping they put that in all their cars for the next generation.

"With 93-octane fuel, the powertrain produces 250 HP (254 PS) at 5,000 rpm and 310 lb-ft (420 Nm) of torque at 2,000 rpm."
 

deuxdiesel

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I really like the look of the CX-5, I just wish it had a little more "juice" under the hood.
We owned one for about a year and sold it. It was gutless, and did not get all that great MPG's (mid-20's on the highway). It cornered well but was pretty noisy on the highway, so not a great long distance car. It did do well in the snow with stock tires, but no better than our Golf with winter tires. Oh yeah, no manual with AWD, only an automatic is available.
 

LogicBomb

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That seems the be the consensus from all the reviewers and most of the owners as well. Great car, needs a bigger engine. I think we'll have to wait for the next generation for a bigger engine. The rear diff and center diff are tiny and I doubt they could handle 250hp.
Also, don't buy a 2016+ Mazda thinking you can mod the engine. It's pretty much tapped out for power. The 2017 CX-9's 2.5L turbo engine looks promising. Here's hoping they put that in all their cars for the next generation.
"With 93-octane fuel, the powertrain produces 250 HP (254 PS) at 5,000 rpm and 310 lb-ft (420 Nm) of torque at 2,000 rpm."

Or at a minimum a 2.0 with a turbo. A Mazdaspeed CX-5 with 220-240hp could be promising. Hopefully they revive that moniker with their 3/6 models as well.
 
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