romad
Top Post Dawg
Or Rome, Italy; Paris, France; London, UK. BTDT!People in the US don't know what traffic is, try driving in Manila sometime!
Volkswagen's Clean Air Act violations on 2009+ TDIs spark huge recall, investigations
- Thread starter TDIpilot4u
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MotoTDI
Well-known member
100% spot on. While our cars have value on an individual level, for VW, there is a HUGE cost for this taking a long time to resolve and fighting on an individual level is expensive.What's not to trust about someone on the internet saying something?
I think with buybacks people have to keep in mind it's not about what's fair. It's about what gets VW out of the most lawsuits/fines/etc. Year of vehicle + trim level + condition + mileage + sorry-for-cheating-money isn't as attractive as year + trim level + sorry-for-cheating-money. Their goal is mitigation through acceptance.
Look at how many people here say "I wouldn't take that deal" - those are the ones they have to win over and the way to do that is to be generous, not miserly.
It's an interesting situation because if they take the pre-scandal book value (Sept or August) they should also take condition and mileage from then. In my opinion they have to work the transaction as if you were given the chance at the time the scandal broke to sell it then and there. Both mileage and condition would be, overall, an estimate when you wind back the clock a year like that.
With so many to deal with they also have to expediate the process. They and the dealers do NOT want to haggle with individuals over values - more so when estimating a year back in time on condition and mileage. I don't think they want to run the risk of someone saying f it, I'll go with the CAS or not accept so you pay max fine.
In the end I think the buyback/fix will hit that 90% target with a majority opting for buyback (coupled with incentives outside of the settlement). Trust me.
If VW can get the majority of the 'unfixable' GEN 1 and GEN 2 cars off the road, the cost to engineer a fix / unit becomes more expensive for that class of vehicle. I think VW is going to make a deal we cannot refuse to move this along.
For the models that can truly be fixed with a SW update the incentive may be the update + $$$. Remember, if you wanna sue, you are gonna have to hire a lawyer and pay the costs. All VW has to do is provide a solution with negligible impact. $5000 on top of the fix may be seen as enough to compensate.
As soon as VW is given the all clear to sell current gen new TDIs, the trade in values will come back to normal for those products tied to owners. A under 30K new diesel car in america is hard to find and rare.
Some people may get over big time with the buyback BUT it is not possible to ensure everyone gets a fair and equal slice of the pie. Some will get a bigger share than they may be warranted. Themz the breaks.
aja8888
Top Post Dawg
I think you are making a wise decision, given what you have to lose or spend if you keep driving it. I have "put up" my 2014 Passat TDI since it only has 26K on it and all I have experienced is a DEF heater failure. Boy are these cars fragile. I will only drive it around the town and use our Hyundai Santa Fe for bigger jaunts. I also am restoring a 2003 Jetta TDI that will become my daily driver this summer.
MotoTDI
Well-known member
Are you not under the manufacturers warranty at this time on the 2016 JSW?
Mike91326
Veteran Member
That's why I'm going to wait. I think incentives will start on the low side but will go up over the next two years.What's not to trust about someone on the internet saying something?
I think with buybacks people have to keep in mind it's not about what's fair. It's about what gets VW out of the most lawsuits/fines/etc. Year of vehicle + trim level + condition + mileage + sorry-for-cheating-money isn't as attractive as year + trim level + sorry-for-cheating-money. Their goal is mitigation through acceptance.
Look at how many people here say "I wouldn't take that deal" - those are the ones they have to win over and the way to do that is to be generous, not miserly.
It's an interesting situation because if they take the pre-scandal book value (Sept or August) they should also take condition and mileage from then. In my opinion they have to work the transaction as if you were given the chance at the time the scandal broke to sell it then and there. Both mileage and condition would be, overall, an estimate when you wind back the clock a year like that.
With so many to deal with they also have to expediate the process. They and the dealers do NOT want to haggle with individuals over values - more so when estimating a year back in time on condition and mileage. I don't think they want to run the risk of someone saying f it, I'll go with the CAS or not accept so you pay max fine.
In the end I think the buyback/fix will hit that 90% target with a majority opting for buyback (coupled with incentives outside of the settlement). Trust me.
pkhoury
That guy with the goats
That's why I made it a point to get the condenser replaced in the Saab, and the Jetta was for that and comfort reasons. Window fogging, especially at night, is dangerous. Might as well not spend a red cent on brakes either (because if you need to stop, you can just shift it in reverse).
From what I've read, VW isn't the only brand that uses those compressors. Besides, if those compressors were 100% problem free, companies like Polar Bear in FL (who sells those replacement pressure sensors) wouldn't exist.Good advise pk.....
Vw...golly gosh!!!...... everything needs re-engineered part for these cars....
newbeetleman
Veteran Member
You have been on this site since 2002, so why are you being an abrasive a$$hat in this thread?
Jeta Life
Veteran Member
The thought of protecting my TDI till the June 21 deadline has crossed my mind. I guess we are all rolling the dice. I am driving extra cautiously lately.
This really sucks. Driving in fear now and being extra courteous. Braking well in advance. Driving like I'm taking a drivers license test. Or better... Like there's eggs in the trunk.
My mother was just in my TDI recently which also helped me.
This really sucks. Driving in fear now and being extra courteous. Braking well in advance. Driving like I'm taking a drivers license test. Or better... Like there's eggs in the trunk.
My mother was just in my TDI recently which also helped me.
shportvagenLA
Member
Same. I'm not going to pass up a chance to cash out of my JSW on sweetheart terms. Too rare of a chance. But I'm also not going to change how I'm using the car until we've got paper offers in hand.
Pseudonym
Well-known member
I emailed a few of the attorney's on the steering committee for this lawsuit, asking for details of the negotiations. Two didn't respond and then one that did just sent a link to the transcript where Breyer told everybody to not share the discussions with the public.
My question is this--in what way am I a member of the public? I am a member of the class, so I'm definitely NOT a member of the public in the way they use it(people at large). Seems we should have a right to know what the attorneys who are working for us have negotiated.
My question is this--in what way am I a member of the public? I am a member of the class, so I'm definitely NOT a member of the public in the way they use it(people at large). Seems we should have a right to know what the attorneys who are working for us have negotiated.
Couldn't have put it better! I too have "made it my own"!
The car drives just the same as before so as far as I'm concerned, VW hasn't left me hanging with a "bad" or "defective" car. In fact, it continues to do the "job" I've come to expect it to do rather well.
I do think it's VW's responsibility to figure out a solution whereby
(a) I get to keep this car, and
(b) be compliant with the regulations for NOx discharge.
And if the "fix" implies an increase in operating costs, VW should provide reimbursement using reasonable statistics.
It's not my headache to figure out how much they "spend" bringing my car into compliance - that's between them and the regulators to figure out and has nothing to do with me. If it means that they need to "spend" more than this car is "worth" based on some book somewhere, then so be it. This car is worth a helluva lot more to me and it's still their job to fix it - if the *only* way the regulators will allow them involves an expensive retrofit, then it's still their responsibility to do so. I'll concede to parting with the car for a couple of weeks if needed.
IMO the environmental signature of
(a) VW buying back my car and having to dispose of it somehow, and
(b) me buying something that consumed a lot of resources to produce,
would exceed anything VW could "spend" in fixing my car including popping in a new engine. I think that this is not just about maximizing economic profits but also about finding the most environmentally responsible solution. Viewed that way any buy-back is probably being done solely to address consumer dis-satisfaction ... the environmentally preferred solution has to be to leave as many cars on the road with their chassis and transmissions intact ... as long as VW brings them into compliance somehow.
VW *must* fix it right the first time around or their legal problems (from environmental groups as well as consumer groups) will continue to weigh them down... and they know that. So I expect that they will do whatever is needed - the forward looking cost of being penny-wise is huge for them.
Most of the engineers who built these cars are still the same smart, focused guys. Yes, VW did something unfair/un-ethical ... and some guys are for sure to blame. But I for one don't see that as a reason to stop buying their stuff. At least they've owned up and I for one would wait to see how they resolve this before passing judgement. And how do I know nobody else is cheating? Mitsubishi just showed up - I thought they were straight too ...
Gonehuckin
Active member
I agree wholeheartedly.
romad
Top Post Dawg
Judge Breyer imposed a gag order on everyone connected with the negotiations until June 21, 2016.
scooperhsd
Top Post Dawg
120% OF a number is 2.2 times that number. Don't believe me? Grab your nearest calculator and do 5 + 120%. You'll get 11, not 6.
It's the manner in which your stated the amount that was erroneous, but I don't expect you to understand that, again. So have a nice day.
Logicbomb - you flunked math - 120% of a number is the number + 20%. PERIOD. so 120% of 10 is 12.
Pseudonym
Well-known member
He issues a gag order on discussing it with the public, which is everybody but the court, plaintiffs, defendants and the respective counsels.
scooperhsd
Top Post Dawg
What!!! You mean to tell me there's someplace with worse traffic than LA?
Have you seen Atlanta ?
Maybe Dallas ?
Rico567
Top Post Dawg
Well, if you really believe that you are a principal in this case, don't cease in your efforts to get information out of that lawyer. And if you learn anything, be sure to share it here.
Rico567
Top Post Dawg
I have been through Atlanta exactly once, on our way down to FL; I was never so glad to have an excuse to do anything as I was to drive through GA another way (Americus, to see the POW Museum at the site of the Andersonville Civil War camp) so that I didn't have to go North through that ant farm.Have you seen Atlanta ?
Maybe Dallas ?
laughingbasho
Well-known member
- Joined
- Jun 18, 2013
- Location
- Merion, PA
- TDI
- 2011 Golf TDI, Golf TDI, 2013 6-MT - turned in for buyback Jetta TDI, 2012, DSG - sold - 1985 MB 300D, “Banana Boat”
But ... But, when you quote her, she jumps past MY ignore list! Keep walking, nothing to see there!
gearheadgrrrl
Veteran Member
- Joined
- Dec 15, 2002
- Location
- Buffalo Ridge (southwest Minnesota)
- TDI
- '15 Golf DSG, '13 JSW DSG surrendered to VW, '03 Golf 2 door manual
Attorneys working for us?
Sorry to disappoint you, but the attorneys are just playing you as a pawn for their profit. As for working for "us", don't include me in "us", VW hasn't harmed me in the slightest and I have no reason to sue VW.
Sorry to disappoint you, but the attorneys are just playing you as a pawn for their profit. As for working for "us", don't include me in "us", VW hasn't harmed me in the slightest and I have no reason to sue VW.
You sir, have a dry wit! It took me a while to get back on my chair!
TCBinaflash
Veteran Member
Again, when they send you the check please document yourself returning it. I imagine you won't.
jhawklver
Veteran Member
We are all guessing at this point
I know math seems hard to a lot of people here but it wouldn't be hard at all IF VW wanted to use a guestimate of mileage in August 2015. Many cars have been in dealers at some point. As mentioned, we had to put in mileage for goodwill cards. My dealer certainly took odometer settings and gave the car a once over.
That all said though... IF they cared to worry about mileage they could look at how old the car is, look at mileage at time of buyback, and do simple math to find an average miles per year. Then use that to subtract to the total back to August/Sept. 2015. Not perfect but certainly feasible.
I'm not sure how they can get the high number of buybacks needed if they nickle/dime us on mileage and condition. And I'm saying that as someone with a well-maintained and low mileage car.
VW's been in the news, in a very negative manner, for months. They are facing many more months and potentially billions in costs. They've taken steps to start to put this in the rear view (not going to be a fast process) and are likely negotiating a deferred prosecution agreement where they'll have an independent monitor and if all works out will waive prosecution. All part of similar deals when the DOJ gets involved.
VW's best way out is to provide very generous compensation based on a readily applicable and understandable formula. Having some entity assess value based on damages and mileage puts a potential negative in the process that could impact buyback percentages.
To me the incentive is what matters here. Is VW more motivated to get the cars off the road/fixed and avoid higher fines/legal prosecution? Or to save money to make sure they only pay the exact value (realizing buyback % will be lower). I'd argue it is the former. The hammer was just too high if USA wanted to bring it. Fines per car, per day, and FTC threat to have to pay full cost? VW's best play is to overpay us and live to fight another day, hopefully smarter and maintaining some of us as customers.
All that said, I can see a mileage part of the equation. Condition may be tougher. It wouldn't be smart for VW to fight on these, but lots of things they've done so far have not been smart.
I know math seems hard to a lot of people here but it wouldn't be hard at all IF VW wanted to use a guestimate of mileage in August 2015. Many cars have been in dealers at some point. As mentioned, we had to put in mileage for goodwill cards. My dealer certainly took odometer settings and gave the car a once over.
That all said though... IF they cared to worry about mileage they could look at how old the car is, look at mileage at time of buyback, and do simple math to find an average miles per year. Then use that to subtract to the total back to August/Sept. 2015. Not perfect but certainly feasible.
I'm not sure how they can get the high number of buybacks needed if they nickle/dime us on mileage and condition. And I'm saying that as someone with a well-maintained and low mileage car.
VW's been in the news, in a very negative manner, for months. They are facing many more months and potentially billions in costs. They've taken steps to start to put this in the rear view (not going to be a fast process) and are likely negotiating a deferred prosecution agreement where they'll have an independent monitor and if all works out will waive prosecution. All part of similar deals when the DOJ gets involved.
VW's best way out is to provide very generous compensation based on a readily applicable and understandable formula. Having some entity assess value based on damages and mileage puts a potential negative in the process that could impact buyback percentages.
To me the incentive is what matters here. Is VW more motivated to get the cars off the road/fixed and avoid higher fines/legal prosecution? Or to save money to make sure they only pay the exact value (realizing buyback % will be lower). I'd argue it is the former. The hammer was just too high if USA wanted to bring it. Fines per car, per day, and FTC threat to have to pay full cost? VW's best play is to overpay us and live to fight another day, hopefully smarter and maintaining some of us as customers.
All that said, I can see a mileage part of the equation. Condition may be tougher. It wouldn't be smart for VW to fight on these, but lots of things they've done so far have not been smart.
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TCBinaflash
Veteran Member
CEaton
Well-known member
Yes, I'm under warranty, which is up in 4K miles, but the way I was treated for my hpfp failure, the warranty ain't worth s*** I want this car out of my life.
Link to my hpfp failure thread: http://forums.tdiclub.com/showthread.php?t=457663
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Maybe this has been covered already: what about accessories? Any speculation if there will be room in the settlement/buyback to reimburse me for the hitch, snow tires, roof rack and 3m clear rock ship protector i paid to have installed on my Sportwagen?
aja8888
Top Post Dawg
I would guess, no they won't consider accessories like those. They are going to probably scrap these cars.
thanksimgruven
Veteran Member
great posts. It would behoove VW to announce details as soon as possible. For a company who has historically been 'socially progressive' (both with vehicles and attitude) -- this is a global fail.
What better opportunity to turn this around into a positive marketing campaign? Make it right with the customers, offer generous compensation as they have promised already, and the world will notice. People love to talk about car deals at cocktail parties and at with co-workers. Look what the frame buyback did for Toyota - a company who VW has been trying hard to compete with in recent years.
Obviously this is a long-term approach cost recuperation wise and exactly how VW needs to approach this situation moving forward in order to win back customers and grow the company.
What better opportunity to turn this around into a positive marketing campaign? Make it right with the customers, offer generous compensation as they have promised already, and the world will notice. People love to talk about car deals at cocktail parties and at with co-workers. Look what the frame buyback did for Toyota - a company who VW has been trying hard to compete with in recent years.
Obviously this is a long-term approach cost recuperation wise and exactly how VW needs to approach this situation moving forward in order to win back customers and grow the company.
tdifirst86
Member
Jetta tdi
First time poster here. Curious about what to do with my situation. Bought my first car in September 2015. 2012 Jetta TDI, Certified Pre-Owned from a dealer. All cash/no financing. I got my license late (mid 20’s) so buying this was a big deal for me. Paid nearly $19,000 after fees. Purchased literally ONE DAY (9/2/15) before VW admitted everything about the software on the TDIs. Picked the car up from the dealer on 9/4/15. Returned to the dealer about a week later to sign up for the extended warranty with Zurich. By then, VW 100% knew about the emissions but still pushed that I needed the extended warranty.
I cancelled the warranty about a week later after more research and realizing that it wasn’t worth the overall cost. I FINALLY received a refund for the warranty down payment 5 months later in February 2016 after back and forth phone calls, emails, and arguing with the dealer and the warranty company. Overall, this car just feels like it has been a headache since the beginning. The car itself has been good. Had to take it in for the 40k service (cost me $700) but other than that, no other costs or issues so far. I always wanted a Jetta but after all of this I am ready to move on. What other cars are you all looking at (similar feel to the Jetta) for those of you that plan on having VW buyback?
First time poster here. Curious about what to do with my situation. Bought my first car in September 2015. 2012 Jetta TDI, Certified Pre-Owned from a dealer. All cash/no financing. I got my license late (mid 20’s) so buying this was a big deal for me. Paid nearly $19,000 after fees. Purchased literally ONE DAY (9/2/15) before VW admitted everything about the software on the TDIs. Picked the car up from the dealer on 9/4/15. Returned to the dealer about a week later to sign up for the extended warranty with Zurich. By then, VW 100% knew about the emissions but still pushed that I needed the extended warranty.
I cancelled the warranty about a week later after more research and realizing that it wasn’t worth the overall cost. I FINALLY received a refund for the warranty down payment 5 months later in February 2016 after back and forth phone calls, emails, and arguing with the dealer and the warranty company. Overall, this car just feels like it has been a headache since the beginning. The car itself has been good. Had to take it in for the 40k service (cost me $700) but other than that, no other costs or issues so far. I always wanted a Jetta but after all of this I am ready to move on. What other cars are you all looking at (similar feel to the Jetta) for those of you that plan on having VW buyback?
Pseudonym
Well-known member
I'm actually quite sure VW wants to announce details awhile ago. The US gov't is to blame for the gag order. I don't feel bad for VW, but for the last few months they've been sort of boxed in by the U.S. where they can't say or do much of anything.
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