Volkswagen's Clean Air Act violations on 2009+ TDIs spark huge recall, investigations

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Dozenspeed

Top Post Dawg
Joined
May 1, 2012
I'm proud to have the Oilhammer caring for my car for over 180,000 miles. He changed my oil just yesterday.

He brings in serious business to his shop (of which he is merely employed, mind you) not by soliciting for it, but just by being who he is. His competant maintenance of my vehicle is surely a big factor to why I have had reletively little trouble with my CR which seems to be amazingly mechanically original compared to others even at 270k on the clock. He's done more wear-and-tear cosmetic work for me than actual repairs from component failure. :rolleyes:

On top of that, I live just 20 miles away, so while I understand why many are jealous of this advantage I have, any haters can still suck it. :p
 

uffex

New member
Joined
Oct 9, 2015
Location
U.K
TDI
2.0Lt TDI
VW Software program

Beware buying a VW
Following the revelation of the E.C.U.’s programmed to cheat emissions I fear this is not isolated to emissions.
Our car a three year old 2Lt Diesel Golf’s power steering failed, not only did this make the car extremely difficult to steer I would suggest this is of real safety concern.
The fault was accompanied by a number of warnings symbols and the display statement as follows “Error stabilization control ESC”.

At my first opportunity we arranged for inspection by a local VW dealer.
After some hours the dealer informed me that the car required a “software update”
This would cost £75.00 but he was not sure if that would fix the car, however the update fixed the power steering.
Following the event I wrote to VW Customer Services Sheffield UK asking a number of questions: -

1/ What is the probability of reoccurrence of such issues?

2/ Should customers be charged for such updates, which are of a safety related nature?

3/ Why after three years does a car require a software update?

The local dealer called to enquire who had made the last service, as they obviously had no record.
Shortly after a female VW customer service representative called to attempt to answer my concerns.
1/ Cannot reassure that this will not occur again in the future.
2/ Yes the customer should pay where the car is out of warranty; this is not a safety issue but a “Minor operation issue”
3/ Cannot explain why this is the case.

I have contacted a Martin Ryder of VOSA UK. whom appears to agree with VW , clearly this fellow is not qualified to evaluate the safety aspects of vehicle’s.
For my part I suspect that VW has programed failures into the E.C.U. to then extort funds from paying customers.
 

Mike_04GolfTDI

Top Post Dawg
Joined
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Location
Richmond, BC, Canada
TDI
Mine: 2019 Golf R DSG, Wife's: 2015 Golf Comfortline TDI
Just tried my luck today at my local VW dealer to see how much they would give as a trade-in for my 2013 Golf TDI DSG 4dr with Sunroof/Navigation. The mileage on the car is about 25K miles. KBB fair trade shows about $16,500 (and $17,500 for excellent condition). The dealer gave me a quote of $13,000 :eek:

That's like about %50 depreciation after I bought it new two years ago.

I am interpreting that as "I do not want your TDI but if you insist, I will screw you" :mad:
Dealers aren't in the business of paying full market value for a car. You have to sell it to an end user if you want full market value.
 

ericy

Veteran Member
Joined
Aug 24, 2004
Location
Rehoboth Beach, DE
TDI
2015 Golf TDI (wife's car)
That is not my experience with the TDI. We've got all manual transmissions and for sake of comparison here are my impressions comparing all our vehicles on this point:
2013 Jetta Sportwagon TDI is intolerant of low RPM: If RPM drops much below 1K the little TDI clunks to a stop.
It happens most frequently to me when I am slowing down with the clutch depressed. When I want to go again (while still moving), I downshift, let out the clutch and give it some fuel. But if I miscalculate the downshift, the engine just stalls on me.

The worst I had was when the (*&(&*)& thing stalled as I was crossing a busy highway. I had enough forward momentum to carry me to the other side where I got it started again. People were giving me the horn as they were flying by.

My old ALH was *far* more forgiving.
 

pknopp

Veteran Member
Joined
Nov 29, 2011
Location
WV
TDI
2012 Jetta Sportwagen

Keith63

Veteran Member
Joined
Jul 8, 2014
Location
Kentucky
TDI
2012 Jetta TDI Premium; 1974 Karmin Ghia; 1973 Super Beetle
SIX POSSIBLE VW TDI DIESEL FIXES: FROM SOFTWARE FIX TO NEW CAR. (Source: Family Car Guide). The following six (6) fixes are listed from likely (1) to unlikely (6), but are all possible:

1) ADJUST THE SOFTWARE: VW techs are hoping that a simple software fix will work, and this is the most likely fix according to VW.

2) USE OF MORE ADBLUE FLUID: With those vehicle fitted with (SCR) and UREA tanks, VW states that a combination of both a software fix and greater use of ADBLUE may allow VW TDI's to comply with emissions. This offer would work with vehicles 2012-2015 (Passat) and 2015 Golfs. Bonus; VW would at cost supply owners the additional ADBLUE at no charge.

3) SEND MONEY TO CURRENT OWNERS: VW will most likely be required to send every owner of the defected vehicles a cash payment of some sort to cover diminished resale value and increased future service costs of the defected vehicles.

4) RETROFIT (SCR) TO CARS: VW stated they want to avoid doing so due to it being the most complicated and most expensive. VW stated adding SCR; UREA tank; associated pumps; sensors; plumbing; and controls to older vehicles would be a major engineering undertaking.

5) BUY BACK CARS OUTRIGHT: VW stated this is the worst case scenario. Any VW which could not be brought into compliance with software tweaks owners would accept, would be bought back and crushed (destroyed). VW stated that average buy back price would be $15,000.00 at a total cost to VW of $4.5 Billion.

6) SWAP OUT NON-COMPLIANT TDI's FOR NEW MODELS: VW stated this would be the most priciest solution and the most unlikely solution, but it would be the cleanest and fairest.
 

JHMartin

Member
Joined
May 16, 2013
Location
Peralta, NM
TDI
Proud Owner: 2009 2.0 Jetta
Again, trying to get back on topic.

(Reuters) - As Volkswagen AG prepares to explain how it might fix the polluting diesel cars that set off the biggest scandal in the German automaker's history, whatever solution it proposes could be undermined by some owners in the United States who won't bring their cars in for a recall and can't be forced to.
Guilty.
OK, I may wait a year and see how it goes, but I have a very competent certified VW mechanic 6 miles down the highway. Has worked on all our bugs & Jettas
 

hybridkiller

Veteran Member
Joined
Apr 17, 2012
Location
Southeastern US
TDI
2012 Golf DSG

EnzTDI91

Member
Joined
Jan 20, 2015
Location
Detroit, MI
TDI
2015 Jetta TDI SEL
Not about the environment

I don't post here often, but this time I felt compelled.
I drive a 2015 Jetta TDI SEL.
It's the best damn car I've ever driven. Great accelleration and fuel economy, and to be honest the one thing I don't like is their embedded systems technology like their radio, cd-player, navigation system. I think some of the other automotive companies have done a better job with their consoles.

That being said....

In my opinion this diesel-gate scandal is not even about the environment.

1.Consider that the Clean Air Act was made in 1970 during the Nixon Administration. It hadn't been updated since 1996. During the last 30-40 years, Smog in the atmosphere has been steadily declining. Co2 has however been increasing at alarming rates.

2.Consider that TDIs are simply in another class of automobile. American OEMs cannot compete w. these VWs. I get 45mpg+ on my morning commute to work. The torque and zippiness of the TDI is great. Many American cars simply cannot compete. We know the US industry is focused on hybrids and electrics and traditional fuel. Hybrids and electrics are more expensive and less robust in terms of durability of the engines. Gasoline is less efficient, and frankly contributing to the rise of Co2 and hydro carbons in the atmosphere.

3.Consider that recently VW lobbied congress for tax breaks and incentives for their TDI models as high efficient vehicles. OBama wants around 50 mpg+ for vehicles by 2025. TDIs can nearly achieve this NOW! If VW would have been awarded tax breaks and consumber incentives to lower the cost of the vehicles for consumers, they maybe could have achieved lower emissions and a fix without passing on the extra cost to the customer. VW was denied however. Remeber it is in US interests to promote domestics at home.

4. Consider also that recent GM recalls where people have actually died as a result of negligience or unsafe vehicles made WAY less of a splash than this current VW "scandal".


I mean FFS. There are tons of chargers, range rovers, SUVs....etc that are gas guzzlers that American people drive. Now suddenly we are supposed to believe that the government and auto manufacturers and consumers here care about the environment? There are literally less than .5 million TDIs in the states. Are you trying to tell me that the miniscule amount of vehicles that are frankly superior to their peers in class are contributing THAT much to pollution and climate change? No examination of big rigs, low mpg vehicles, gas guzzlers?

Its all hypocrisy and I believe this is truly about competitive advantage and protecting the American auto industry so that hybrid and electric technologies can have more time for R&D without Diesel taking up market share. I mean have you ever driven a chevy cruze diesel? I have......its garbage. When you think about it, its actually a pretty slick move the obama administration made when they found out about the cheating. I'm from the US, and of course I want our economy to do well..

"Never let a crisis go to waste."

TLDR: It's all bs, read between the lines, don't get emotionally swayed by the media. Think about it critically.
 

Keith63

Veteran Member
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Jul 8, 2014
Location
Kentucky
TDI
2012 Jetta TDI Premium; 1974 Karmin Ghia; 1973 Super Beetle
Question: Why is those who are turning away from the TDI's running to the Mazda 3' and 6's?
 

Shife

Veteran Member
Joined
May 8, 2015
Location
Michigan
TDI
2015 GSW SE DSG White/Beige
.

Something tells me you are involved with dealers some how.
Prior to getting into industrial manufacturing I managed a dealer service department. I spun wrenches as an electrical and driveability tech prior to that for both domestic and asian franchises. At no time did I work for a Euro franchise, however I have worked on plenty of Euro cars. I certainly scratched my head at VW's insistence to use plastic water pump impellers that disintegrate, but it is no different than Ford's DPFE sensors or GM's self-destructing wheel bearings.

As I said previously, it's all the same bag of @#%. If you haven't noticed, the culture in the industry is toxic all the way from the very top executive to the lowest lube tech. I had an offer to run a Lincoln dealer a few weeks ago. They just flushed out previous management and most of the employees. No. Way. In. Hell. would I go back to that chaos. There are some good folks and very talented technicians out there, but the industry as a whole is a predatory mess that I want nothing to do with.

Any of oilhammer's claims and criticisms of VW service can be applied to any repair facility or brand, franchise or independent. The idea that VW somehow corners the market on ineptitude is what I find objectionable.
 

Grievous Angel

Veteran Member
Joined
Oct 22, 2011
Location
Tuscaloosa, AL
TDI
2012 Jetta TDI (traded after Diesel-Gate)
Question: Why is those who are turning away from the TDI's running to the Mazda 3' and 6's?
Drive-ability. Reliability. Style. Simplicity. Good enough economy, without turbos, regens, EGRs, SCRs, Double-douche-ram-airs and DPFS and HPFPs and all the extra exotic stuff. Abundance of manual transmissions. Lower "regular old Japanese sedan" maintenance.
I probably would have gone Accord had it been as easy to obtain a Manual tranny with it. I'm avoiding CVTs for as long as possible.
 
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PC Dave

Veteran Member
Joined
Oct 27, 2001
Location
USA
TDI
Other
Question: Why is those who are turning away from the TDI's running to the Mazda 3' and 6's?
Many of us drive VWs because they're more fun to drive than anything else in the affordable compact to mid-size class, much more so than Toyota, Honda, Nissan, Chevy, etc. Mazda's the only brand that compares as a driver's car in this class and price point. You give up fuel economy and diesel torque but gain reliability.
 

VWmeow

Active member
Joined
Oct 1, 2015
Location
way northern Californial
TDI
2003 Jetta Wagon
Flag away. I see nothing inappropriate about it. He's an independent shop that uses this site to attract business. I'm sure he's very good. But let's not pretend like his disdain for dealer service departments isn't at least partially related to his source of income.

If I was in his position, I'd be using this site and thread to use this situation to drum up increased business as well.

Yeah, and hospitals care about your health...because they said that your health comes first.

Of course he drums up business this way.. But... and this is a big one... He can back it up. There is truth in what he says and HIS customers who pay money to him just like they did to VW would have no incentive other than promoting someone who has ethics and values the people that allow him to earn a living.

Years ago, when Toyota made damn near indestructible cars that lasted much longer than the standard that day, People thought they would go out of business because no one would buy another for a long time. Well...

Oilhammer and the other gurus are not just providing a service, they are quite generous in their time and expertise. This site filters out crap very quickly.. If he wasnt what he said he is and if his comments were false, you can bet he woudnt be here long..

Carry on Oilhammer...
 

hybridkiller

Veteran Member
Joined
Apr 17, 2012
Location
Southeastern US
TDI
2012 Golf DSG
Are you trying to tell me that the miniscule amount of vehicles that are frankly superior to their peers in class are contributing THAT much to pollution and climate change? No examination of big rigs, low mpg vehicles, gas guzzlers?

Its all hypocrisy and I believe this is truly about competitive advantage and protecting the American auto industry so that hybrid and electric technologies can have more time for R&D without Diesel taking up market share. Think about it critically.
Do you not see the contradiction in your own "critical thinking"? You think the big bad government/EPA/The Illuminati, whatever, is practicing protectionism by trying to eliminate this "minuscule amount of vehicles"? That's their strategy? Protect the US auto industry from 1% of cars sold here - some of which are actually built here by American workers?

Is there a sale on tin foil hats going on somewhere that I haven't heard about?
 

EnzTDI91

Member
Joined
Jan 20, 2015
Location
Detroit, MI
TDI
2015 Jetta TDI SEL
I realize what you are getting at.
There are so little sold in the US so how does that even warrant the need for protection?
Those numbers have the chance to go up. Even in Europe, it bodes well for companies like GM and FCA that VW wont sell its diesels for a few years. Besides I hardly think this is unrealistic behavior for governments to engage in.
 
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hybridkiller

Veteran Member
Joined
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Location
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TDI
2012 Golf DSG
Question: Why is those who are turning away from the TDI's running to the Mazda 3' and 6's?
I would be looking at a M3 (coming from a Golf) simply because the utility of the hatchback is pretty much a necessity for me for various reasons, and I don't like the styling of the Focus. Those are the only options that even approach the appeal of the Golf for me.
 

JM Popaleetus

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Mar 15, 2010
Location
Connecticut
TDI
Signature.
I'm sure Germany threatening to deem VW diesels illegal to drive on the road is part of protecting America's auto industry too?
 

flip7

Member
Joined
May 24, 2014
Location
Austin TX
TDI
Jetta 2013 TDI
Drive-ability. Reliability. Style. Simplicity. Good enough economy .

I know this is not a Mazda forum, however be-warned;

I owned for three years a brand new 2005 Mazda 6 , manual tranny...

The clutch failed at 30KMiles (shuddering badly), after had it replaced, and few more thousands miles some ball bearing on the transmission shaft stated to whistle. Sold it before a >$1K repair bill to hit me.

On one instance it died on me completely on my way to work (alternator + batt)

Windshield wiper motor died too.

Driveability and performance were completely unimpressive.

If they are now better - I don't know
 

JM Popaleetus

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Joined
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Location
Connecticut
TDI
Signature.
I would be looking at a M3 (coming from a Golf) simply because the utility of the hatchback is pretty much a necessity for me for various reasons, and I don't like the styling of the Focus. Those are the only options that even approach the appeal of the Golf for me.
Mazda 3, WRX, and the Focus ST/RS are the only cars aside from the Golf that are "fun" to drive and are hatches.

I'm looking at a 2016 Volt for my next daily driver, but the Mazda 3 sure is sexy.
If they are now better - I don't know
Mazda has changed ownership and redesigned their entire lineup since 2005.

Other than oil dilution issues with an engine that isn't even available in the USA, I have not heard any negatives about Mazda's new lineup.
 
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EnzTDI91

Member
Joined
Jan 20, 2015
Location
Detroit, MI
TDI
2015 Jetta TDI SEL
So what you're saying is what I posted makes 0 sense? Or are you playing devil's advocate? I don't think it's that farfetched.
 
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