Transmission leaking oil at output flange

[veget8]

A few months ago I changed the clutch in my 02 Golf TDI (ALH). The procedure went very smoothly except for one area. I had opted to remove the output shaft flange so I could get the transmission out easier. When I put the flange back in, I had a hard time figuring out how the spring band (not sure what this is called) thing was supposed to go on.

I put it back together and bolted it in, but I probably did something wrong. Now I have noticed that there is definitely leaking around the output shaft. I am preparing to take it apart and fix it. Does anyone have any advice / pictures as to how I should have put it back together? Any parts I might have to replace?

Thanks!

 

[Herm TDI]

What you likely did was damage the seal when you slid the output shaft back into the final-drive.

Seal P/N: 084-409-189-B

When you remove the output shaft its important that you have a clear straight-line for removing the output flange and not cock or tilt the shaft as you remove it. This is likely what happened when you removed it for the clutch job.

The same goes for the installation.
Prior to removing the old seal look at how and where it is seated into the final drive housing. You will want the new seal to be seated exactly the same.
Once you remove the output flange use a seal puller to remove the old seal. Set the new seal into position. I use a large socket and a small rubber mallet to tap the new seal into place.

Install the out-put flange. Remember to have a clear straight line to insert this part. Do not tilt or cock the the output flange to insert it.
Once the output flange is installed use a small prybar to lay flat across the flange face (leave a little space to get to the center bolt). I use a stub point on the engine block to act as a counter force and press the output flange straight into the final drive and tighten the center bolt.

 

[veget8]

Thanks Herm. In addition to the seal, I noticed there was a thin, circular spring band that came out with the flange. I couldn't find anything in the Bentley manual about how this is supposed to be seated, and I presumably unseated it when I removed the flange. Are there any pictures or diagrams that would show me where this is supposed to go?

 

[PDJetta]

That is the girdle spring and its part of the seal. It holds the inner seal lip onto the flange, so oil will not leak. There is a groove for it in the seal. If you stretch this spring, it falls out. I think you discovered your problem. New seal time. Just be careful when you pry the old one out and DO NOT gouge the seal bore in the transaxle housing!

--Nate

 

[oilhammer]

You've already got the answer to your question, but I am wondering why you even took the flange off in the first place? You can get the transmission out quite easily in one piece. Use the spare tire jack to push the engine block off of the rear subframe a bit (this is the actual official procedure, BTW).

Heck, I do not even remove the axles from the car, or even take the wheels off, when I R&R the 02J.

 

[Herm TDI]

flanges

... I am wondering why you even took the flange off in the first place? You can get the transmission out quite easily in one piece. Use the spare tire jack to push the engine block off of the rear subframe a bit (this is the actual official procedure, BTW).

Heck, I do not even remove the axles from the car, or even take the wheels off, when I R&R the 02J.

Removal of the out-put flanges makes a tranny removal / installation very easy.

 

[oilhammer]

Removal of the out-put flanges makes a tranny removal / installation very easy.

But if you can get them out easy without removal like I do, then how is your way easier??? I work on a lot of different cars, the A4 platform clutch job is super, SUPER quick and easy.

But hey, if you have a method that works, and you don't have to deal with a now-leaking seal as the OP is, go for it. I prefer the 'official' method and find it works well.

The NB spare tire jack is the best, I use it for many other operations as well. I like it because it does not have the crank, but a little knob (fits in tighter places) and you can use a radiator petcock drain socket on the knob if you need more leverage.

 

[veget8]

But hey, if you have a method that works, and you don't have to deal with a now-leaking seal as the OP is, go for it. I prefer the 'official' method and find it works well.

The NB spare tire jack is the best, I use it for many other operations as well. I like it because it does not have the crank, but a little knob (fits in tighter places) and you can use a radiator petcock drain socket on the knob if you need more leverage.

Thanks for the suggestion, Oilhammer. At the time I did understand it was optional, but made it easier. Obviously I wish I hadn't removed the flange now.

Sometime if you get a chance, please post a photo of the orientation of the jack in order to move the engine the correct way. Thanks

 

[oilhammer]

Pretty sure the manual has a pic of its use. It essentially can be used in place of the SST, which is tool #3300A. I know the shop manual shows that tool, but I thought Bentley showed using the spare tire jack in its place. The jack trick has been in use since the A2 platform came out way back in 1985, so this is hardly anything new.

 

[Herm TDI]

A-3 tranny

Pretty sure the manual has a pic of its use. It essentially can be used in place of the SST, which is tool #3300A. I know the shop manual shows that tool, but I thought Bentley showed using the spare tire jack in its place. The jack trick has been in use since the A2 platform came out way back in 1985, so this is hardly anything new.

The jack used (as a tool) to position the eng/tranny is in the A-3 Bentley manual. I made my own version of a special tool to do this.
Why people perfer to remove the output flange is leaving the exhaust down pipe attached to the turbo.

If you go with this procedure this limits the about of forward travle that you can move the engine forward.

Leaving the exhaust attached, remove the output flange saves time and also eliminates the chance of turbo stud breakage.

Nothing wrong with using the jack but it really sucks whan you have an old corroded turbo stud snap off when it can be prevented just by leaving it alone in the first place.

There are many ways to skin the same cat. Its the method that makes the less mess that really matters. A broken turbo stud is one mess that you do not want to deal with if it can be avoided.

 

[PDJetta]

My Bentley calles for a special-purpose VW numbered screw-type bar tool to move the engine back to allow for tranny removal. This is after the dog-bone brace is removed. It also said to remove the output flanges. I just removed the passenger side one. I think when I did it I just gave the engine a shove. I had a home-made engine brace (from above) and a transmission jack, so it worked failrly well. I also was afraid the removed drive flange would later leak, but I have had zero issues with it. I just made sure NO DIRT whatsoever got onto the sealing face and that the flange went in square.

--Nate

 

[Herm TDI]

special tool

My Bentley calles for a special-purpose VW numbered screw-type bar tool to move the engine back to allow for tranny removal.

{EDit}Thats what I made from a section of pipe and a large threaded bolt.
I placed my tool at the frame of the car and the lip of the engine block. Turned the threaded section of my tool and moved the engine smoothly. {/Edit}
This is after the dog-bone brace is removed. It also said to remove the output flanges. I just removed the passenger side one. I think when I did it I just gave the engine a shove. I had a home-made engine brace (from above) and a transmission jack, so it worked failrly well.

{Edit} I used my over-head hoist and a cable wench to raise and lower the tranny. [/Edit}

I also was afraid the removed drive flange would later leak, but I have had zero issues with it. I just made sure NO DIRT whatsoever got onto the sealing face and that the flange went in square.

{Edit} Thats exactly what you need to do. {/Edit}

--Nate

Thats about the best method I've seen an A-4 tranny replaced.

 

[JPR]

Transmission flange seals

I just replaced the seals in my transaxle and am installing the flanges back in today. After I installed the seals, I saw in the Bentley a note:

" Experience has shown that filling the inside space with grease where the spring is located prior to installation will help retain the spring in the correct position."

Questions:

1. Since I already carefully tapped the seal into place, using a large socket, as Herm suggested, is it too late to benefit from this note?

2. Is there any benefit to putting the grease in now and if so, will normal Axle grease be good?

3. Do I install the flanges with the seals dry or do I coat the seals with transmission fluid first?

Thanks!

 

[Dodoma]

coating

Since you have already installed the seal, there is no point in greasing it. While inserting the flange, there is no harm in greasing litely the outside surface so that it goes in smoothly.

 

[GASDAG]

Couple questions for this thread.
I believe my 02 is leaking in the same place. It is a very slow leak, a few drops a week I would say. I do want it fixed though. R&R the flange seal...
1)Do you think this is a job that an independent shop could do, they are recommended here for VAG cars and would probably know how to do this job. Or should I go to my local stealership? I dont' have a garage or a lift, nor do I want to experiment on fixing this myself. It is my DD.
2) What would the approximate estimate be in parts/labor from a reputable Indy and also from the stealership?

I'm only at 120k miles, just picked this '02 up from a little old lady who took very good care of it and garaged it for 10 years. Clutch works as it should, but I feel a little bit of notchyness which prompted me to want to get the Trans fluid changed. Upon removing the belly-pan, I saw the gear oil at the transmission and was told by a friend that the issue is probably that flange seal. Disconnecting the output shaft and installing a new seal sounds straight forward enough, but it's still something I'd like a pro to handle. Any thoughts on shops and or estimates, please share. Thx

 

[Dimitri16V]

I just replaced the seals in my transaxle and am installing the flanges back in today. After I installed the seals, I saw in the Bentley a note:

" Experience has shown that filling the inside space with grease where the spring is located prior to installation will help retain the spring in the correct position."

Questions:

1. Since I already carefully tapped the seal into place, using a large socket, as Herm suggested, is it too late to benefit from this note?

2. Is there any benefit to putting the grease in now and if so, will normal Axle grease be good?

3. Do I install the flanges with the seals dry or do I coat the seals with transmission fluid first?

Thanks!

where the seals different on every side ?

 

[veget8]

Couple questions for this thread.
I believe my 02 is leaking in the same place. It is a very slow leak, a few drops a week I would say. I do want it fixed though. R&R the flange seal...
1)Do you think this is a job that an independent shop could do, they are recommended here for VAG cars and would probably know how to do this job. Or should I go to my local stealership? I dont' have a garage or a lift, nor do I want to experiment on fixing this myself. It is my DD.
2) What would the approximate estimate be in parts/labor from a reputable Indy and also from the stealership?
I'm only at 120k miles, just picked this '02 up from a little old lady who took very good care of it and garaged it for 10 years. Clutch works as it should, but I feel a little bit of notchyness which prompted me to want to get the Trans fluid changed. Upon removing the belly-pan, I saw the gear oil at the transmission and was told by a friend that the issue is probably that flange seal. Disconnecting the output shaft and installing a new seal sounds straight forward enough, but it's still something I'd like a pro to handle. Any thoughts on shops and or estimates, please share. Thx

I agree, if there's gear oil there it's most likely that seal. Honestly, from someone who has done this job several times now, my first time I should have just had the dealership do it. There are several aspects that are a PITA and unless you have another reason to take the flange off besides the seal (like getting the transmission out), it's just not worth the trouble of doing it yourself.

For reference, these are the parts that I hate about this job:
-Draining all the transmission oil
-Removing the drive shaft bolts
-Keeping the driveshaft out of the way
-Removal of output flange bolt (not too bad with impact wrench)
-Getting the old seal out (without gouging the housing)
-Getting the seal to go in straight, all the way in.
-Filling the transmission

Come to think of it, I just listed all the steps.

But then again, maybe I'm just feeling grouchy today A lot of other people probably find it to be an easy job.

 

[GASDAG]

haha thanks for your insight! Yeah, exactly, many experienced dubber mechanics might find it easy, but as soon as I hear the word "transmission" all kinds of bulbs light up in my head telling me to stay away. This morning I made an appt for monday to drop it off at 11am at my dealership. He said "we will have to rediagnose that" and there's a $100 diagnostic fee, which would apply to the repairs if you get it done here... which was totally expected. I'm hoping it's only $2-300 and it's just the seal issue and a couple hrs of labor. He might come back and say "you need a new transmission" at which point, I'll just pay the $100 diagnostic and leave, and explain the problem to an indy shop and see if they'll fix it.

 

[GASDAG]

Also FYI anyone thinking they have this issue.. here is a very nice DIY over on vortex.

http://forums.vwvortex.com/showthre...nt-(02M-similar)&highlight=output+flange+seal

 

[GASDAG]

Dealership just called and said they don't see any leak from the transmission, and that the transmission may be "sweating" where it isn't leaking but isn't exactly dry either. Anyone heard of transmissions sweating?

 

[veget8]

I have seen condensate drip from the block and transmission case, but it's usually on a humid day after a cool morning.

 

[jimbote]

i agree unbolting at the exhaust @ the turbo is asking for trouble...the secret is to unbolt the coupler and the exhaust bracket at the subframe ... then you have plenty of forward movement to get the trans out without removing the axle flange ... imho removing the axle flange takes too long and increases the possibilty of seal damage ... it also forces you to do a fluid fill after the trans is in place, this adds time and mess to an otherwise simple job ...i also use the jack trick but with a hole drilled in the foot and bolted to the heat shield hole ... another time saving trick is using zip ties to hold the engine tin to the oil pan, this prevents the plate from getting knocked off the dowels during trans alignment (a real hassle if it happens), then when the trans is almost pulled up i cut and remove the ties

 

[TDI_G]

I ordered new axle flange seals for my car since they are leaking (or seeping?). Can anyone confirm that both seals are the same for the driver and passenger sides? I ordered and received 2x 02J409528A. The brand is Corteco. Some sources say there is only one per car and others say there are two. I plan on replacing these when my transmission is out of my car getting a new clutch.

 

[TDI_G]

I'm going to bump this one again. I know there are people out there that have changed both seals. Can anyone confirm? I would prefer to find out here before I tear into this next weekend.

 

[WolfgangVW]

Does anyone have a pic of the leak on their car?? And/or common places you'll find oil if it's leaking....

 

[CoolAirVw]

I'm going to bump this one again. I know there are people out there that have changed both seals. Can anyone confirm? I would prefer to find out here before I tear into this next weekend.

I answered your question in your other thread.