Timing belt broke before scheduled replacement mileage. Fight for warranty, or SOL?

[nick_va]

I have a 2015 TDI SportWagen with 118K. Last Friday the timing belt broke. Recommended replacement interval is 130K. The car is out of warranty and has not been serviced at a dealer, a local garage was doing my oil changes and such. No prior problems with the car, but now I am looking at $4K+ in repairs...

Is there a way to make VW treat this as a warranty case?

 

[IndigoBlueWagon]

If you do, I'll be interested to hear what reaction you get. Logic tells me you had a powertrain warranty that included the timing belt, and if it had failed within that warranty the repairs would be covered. But it didn't.

 

[nick_va]

Technically, the powertrain warranty was 5 yr/60,000 mi, so I am out. However, the service schedule tells me that the timing belt should be good for 130,000 mi. If it was 60K or 80K, I'd know to check/replace it. But it did not. Was it a faulty belt? Since it is the original one, it came from the manufacturer. Is their service schedule unrealistically optimistic? Maybe.

I am waiting for a callback from VW "customer advocate", will share the results.

 

[ticaf]

do you have any pics ? I replaced mine at 124k, and everything looked almost new.

 

[Windex]

130k but how much time? These intervals always state both...

 

[nick_va]

do you have any pics ? I replaced mine at 124k, and everything looked almost new.

Nope. Got a call from the shop I towed it to: "bad news - you have a broken timing belt". But it checks out with the messages I've got after the loss of power - "Something something synchronization"

 

[gearheadgrrrl]

Might be covered under the "diesel gate" TDI warranty which is 11 years/162K miles from in service date on a 2015.

 

[TurboABA]

It should be covered, but the diagnostic sounds sketchy!
If you "lost power", the TB didn't break.... an engine without a TB won't have reduced power.... it will have no power as it won't run!
Take it to a real mechanic.

 

[TurboABA]

As per documentation

Additionally, the engine long block warranty shall cover the engine sub-assembly that consists of the assembled block, crankshaft, cylinder head, camshaft, and valve train

But once again, based on what was said above, your TB did NOT break.

 

[Tdijarhead]

As per documentation



But once again, based on what was said above, your TB did NOT break.

I have to agree if the belt broke, the engine is dead, there is no way it can run. IF the engine is still running even with reduced power then something else is going on.

 

[nick_va]

It should be covered, but the diagnostic sounds sketchy!
If you "lost power", the TB didn't break.... an engine without a TB won't have reduced power.... it will have no power as it won't run!
Take it to a real mechanic.

"loss of power" is probably a bad wording on my part. Motor was not running, and I was unable to re-start (my daughter was behind the wheel at the moment of the failure, I drove up a few minutes later). I took the car to a diesel specialist who also works on trucks a lot, so I don't have any reason to doubt him.

 

[TurboABA]

Take it to VW dealer as it should be covered and fixed at no cost to you!
Read your dieselgate warranty!

 

[nick_va]

Might be covered under the "diesel gate" TDI warranty which is 11 years/162K miles from in service date on a 2015.

Thanks for the pointer, gearheadgrrrl and TurboABA!

So far I confirmed that my TDI has been modified as part of Dieselgate, and is covered by corresponding extended warranty. VIN lookup site is here: https://www.vwdieselinfo.com

The warranty is here: https://www.vwdieselinfo.com/pdf/VWCourtSettlement_Emissions_Disclosure_Gen3_Final.pdf

It explicitly mentions the parts damaged in the worst case scenario: "Additionally, the engine long block warranty shall cover the engine sub-assembly that consists of the assembled block, crankshaft, cylinder head, camshaft, and valve train"

I called VW customer care at 1-800-822-8987, eventually got a callback, and they opened a case for me.

The car needs to be diagnosed by a dealer, and the closest date they offered is Nov 22. To be continued...

 

[MrCypherr]

Heres a question, was the water pump ever leaking? I know if the belts get coolant on them, it shortens the life and eats away at the belt. Even if its just a little bit.

 

[nick_va]

Heres a question, was the water pump ever leaking? I know if the belts get coolant on them, it shortens the life and eats away at the belt. Even if its just a little bit.

I cannot say. I never had a reason to look at the pump or the belt prior to this. I can do simple maintenance (battery/headlights/bodywork/oil), but do not consider myself qualified to work on the engine.

 

[nick_va]

So here's the part 2 of the story so far. I towed the car to a dealership, and got a call from their service advisor this morning.

They found that the engine cannot be started (duh!), and there is zero compression on all cylinders. The timing belt is broken - "melted", and the coolant pump is seized. Since it is not an emission issue, they don't consider this a warranty case. Quoted repair cost is between $8K and $10K.

The coolant pump and the timing belt are not listed in the warranty. I have seen the explanations that anything that causes "check engine" light is a warranty case, but cannot find an official wording about this. The warranty says, however, that all disputes should be resolved in favor of the customer.

Any ideas how I should approach this? Even of the coolant pump is the root cause, it still has failed before replacement interval, and caused engine damage, which _is_ covered. Also, OBD should have caught a failing pump, and OBD _is_ covered.

 

[TurboABA]

Did you read your warranty?
If you did, I'm not sure why you are unable to "argue" your case.

https://www.vwcourtsettlement.com/en/docs/emissions/Gen3_Emissions_Modification_Disclosure_Volkswagen.pdf

Additionally, the engine long block warranty shall cover the engine sub-assembly that consists of the assembled block, crankshaft, cylinder head, camshaft, and valve train

 

[nick_va]

I called the advisor to stop by and discuss. He says they already submitted some details to VW to determine whether it's a warranty case. This is despite the first call where he stated that it's not emission so it's not covered. I'll wait until I hear back from them, and still will make a call to VW customer service. Got him to read the list of codes they pulled from OBD, just in case.

 

[turbobrick240]

VW doesn't really have a choice in the matter. There is a court imposed settlement that clearly spells out what their warranty responsibilities are. Don't let them weasel out of their obligations!

 

[MrCypherr]

Long block is covered under the warranty. Im not sure what kind of snake dealership youre dealing with but id for sure go and get a new dealer to deal with cause they are ****ing you around.

 

[IndigoBlueWagon]

Timing belt system is not part of the emissions warranty. Some dealers have replaced water pumps as a good faith gesture, but it appears they technically don't have to. And if the timing belt system (not covered) took out the long block, the long block wouldn't be covered either. The dealer has some influence over what they can get VW to pay for, but a new long block because of a non-warranty component seems like a big ask. But I hope it works!

 

[TurboABA]

Focus on "valve train"!
So in your definition, what is the TB part of?

 

[TurboABA]

The OP also didn't fail to meet the specified replacement interval, so in my logic, he has a lot of supporting evidence for his "claim".

 

[IndigoBlueWagon]

It's a belt system. Not part of the valve train. Not my definition, VWs. If a lifter or the cam failed, or the engine dropped a valve, I think they would consider that valve train.

VW doesn't warranty the belt for its entire service interval. The timing belt system would have been covered under the drivetrain warranty, which (I think) expires at 100K miles. Doesn't matter what the timing belt interval is.

 

[TurboABA]

We do agree on one thing.... it doesn't matter what we think, only what VW thinks.
That being said, anyone who's ever discussed a "long block" in the history of automotive discussions, has never defined one as the assembly missing the timing drive (gears, chain, belt, or some combo of these).... not as far as I've been around anyways.

I would argue A LOT based on that wording in the document. (Hell, I'm arguing right now... and it's not even my car)

 

[IndigoBlueWagon]

If you buy a new long block it does not include timing belt components. At least the ones I've purchased (admittedly, not many) didn't. You have to buy a complete engine to get the TB stuff.

 

[TurboABA]

Looking at the VWoA Warranty Polivy Procedure, it specifically mentioned the EXACT same scenario which @MrCypherr suggested above.
I would use this to argue against the very real possibility that this is exactly what has happened in this case.

CAUSAL PART/LABOR
Each causal part/defect requires a separate claim. Consequential damage is not a separate defect, so
it is claimed on the same line as the causal part. For example, a water pump leak soaks the timing belt
with coolant causing it to fail. The belt is considered consequential damage in this case and submitted
on the same claim line as the water pump.
If complaints are received for the same component on both the left and right sides of the vehicle, the
causal parts must be entered on separate claim lines. For example, when claiming the left and right
lower control arms, one side cannot cause the other side to fail. Each side is a causal part, and the
parts must be entered on separate claim lines.

 

[IndigoBlueWagon]

It'll be interesting to see if VW is willing to consider the long block as consequential damage. I agree it is, but will VW...

 

[nick_va]

Looking at the VWoA Warranty Polivy Procedure, it specifically mentioned the EXACT same scenario which @MrCypherr suggested above.
I would use this to argue against the very real possibility that this is exactly what has happened in this case.

@TurboABA - could you clarify your possible line of argument here? And thank you for mentioning Warranty Policy Procedure, will go through it later tonight. Looks relevant.

 

[TurboABA]

Sure... what do you want me to clarify?
I'm stating the following:
1 - A long block includes the timing drive (in this case, the timing belt)
2 - Valve train means all components required for it to function.... not just the camshafts and valves, but the TB linking the crank to the cam and allowing the valves to "function\operate".
3 - Judging by the fact that your TB failed early (pre replacement maintenance interval), the "only" explanation is the fact that you TB was leaking coolant onto it and caused it to fail.

Sounds like you're dealing with a flaky advisor anyhow, so as soon as you challenge him with some of these statements, I suspect he will fold like a cheap tent. Make sure you contact VWoA if you can't get anywhere with the dealer.