TDI Cam Timing Adjustment (for rough idle) How-to (with pics)

[wjdell]

IIRC I watched that block once and it varied with speed and load. - mine ran in the 2 area when at a stop and very low rpm - but as the rpm went up so did it to a max of 4.8 at around 55 to 65 mph.

I logged those trips and will look and see if I can find it.

I found the log and it pretty much stayed at 5 @ 60 mph occassionally dropping to 4.6.

 

[dhdenney]

Since doing this fix is actually just setting the timing to where it is supposed to be in the first place it should be what the box was designed for, Soothappens has done this fix and his car has an aligator tune.BTW There is a noticable power increase in low end torque even on a non chipped car, that is even more noticable on a tuned car.

I figured the two would be one in the same. I guess doing this mod with a box could advance injection timing too far.

 

[wjdell]

Well if its not the block Ignition Timing BTDC then what does it say in block 4 ?

 

[hutchman]

Well if its not the block Ignition Timing BTDC then what does it say in block 4 ?

Depends on which version of Vag-com you are using. The latest (805) says Tortion.

 

[wjdell]

Group B block 4 shows Ignition Timing BTDC on mine and could range from -1.9 during deceleration and to 7+ during acceleration showing 1.9 at a idle. I will run it soon and have another look.

 

[Hurst89]

Sounds like you found the right block. The timing will change with load and engine rpm, much in the same manner ignition timing on an older distributor gas engine changes: the distributor has an advance that is controlled by centrifical weights, so as the rpms increase, it advances the timing so the fuel will burn and ignite at the right time, and also, as load increases, it will change the advance via the vacuum advance, again to get the best timing for fuel ignition with the given load, which is what you are seeing the computer do with injection timing. That is the way I understand it. The numbers for setting the timing are for the car warmed up fully at idle, all accessories off (A/C, window defrosters, etc, anything that may cause a load on the engine). That is how I set mine. It also helped to keep the torque curve a lot more flat throughout the rpm range (a lot less drop off at 4k-4.5k)

Hurst

 

[gforce1108]

Is there any reason why this wouldn't be the same on a PD powered A4?

 

[MyAvocation]

From an MPG perspective my tank to tank avg this spring is 47.5, so not sure I should adjust mine, but will check it before next big trip.

 

[06SpiceRedTDI]

Is there any reason why this wouldn't be the same on a PD powered A4?

Should be the same as far as this adjustment goes, and as far as how the motor runs when it is timed incorrectly.

 

[Mach1]

DH, you can do this mod, just don't go over board, there is a window(look at the pictures), then place a mark in the window and advance the cam ever so slightly. I used 1 tooth in the window. It worked, so I went about 2 teeth, I believe I had it too advanced so I backed it off, I need to put Vag-com on and see where I am, Looks like everyone is Too far retarded, so you can go just a hair at a time. Move it a little bit, then drive it..

You can also go by how much the car smooths out, if you move it and it stills vibrates a little bit, move it a little bit more. until it stops vibrating. Just a little at a time.

 

[dhdenney]

DH, you can do this mod, just don't go over board, there is a window(look at the pictures), then place a mark in the window and advance the cam ever so slightly. I used 1 tooth in the window. It worked, so I went about 2 teeth, I believe I had it too advanced so I backed it off, I need to put Vag-com on and see where I am, Looks like everyone is Too far retarded, so you can go just a hair at a time. Move it a little bit, then drive it..

You can also go by how much the car smooths out, if you move it and it stills vibrates a little bit, move it a little bit more. until it stops vibrating. Just a little at a time.

I might try it this weekend. We'll see what one tooth does.

 

[Mach1]

Just move it a LITTLE tiny bit and go for a ride..

 

[SootHappens]

Unless you were 'way' retarded prior, I think a full tooth is too much. A tad goes a long way

 

[kstef]

Was 0.0 now 4.9

I adjusted mine today.

Wow the car idles very smooth now. I guess that I did't realize that it was idling so badly. No more shudder on take off!

Took several times..... too far(6.4) then 3.4, ?? too much would not start, 4.4, 5.6, 3.9, and finally 4.9

It's should not take 1.5hours like it did for me... kind of like my golf game.... Par 5 on in 2 finish with 7! LOL!!!!


My MPG was ~42 mpg average. I'll report back my results!

 

[SuperJ]

I've adjusted mine 3 times and I keep ending up a bit over 5. The cam moves too much each time and I have to move back. It's tough to get 4.9, and a little rotation makes a big difference.

 

[06SpiceRedTDI]

I've adjusted mine 3 times and I keep ending up a bit over 5. The cam moves too much each time and I have to move back. It's tough to get 4.9, and a little rotation makes a big difference.

is there any reason you are dead set on getting it set at 4.9, dealer said spec is between 2 and 5 mine is set at about 3.7 now and it has been plenty smooth for 2 months now.

 

[SootHappens]

3.7 here

 

[SuperJ]

is there any reason you are dead set on getting it set at 4.9, dealer said spec is between 2 and 5 mine is set at about 3.7 now and it has been plenty smooth for 2 months now.

No, I just keep adjusting it trying for between 3-5 and keep getting a bit over five. The next time a do it I'm going to make reference marks to tell how much I'm moving the timing.

I getting really fast at it (less than 15minutes).

 

[Mach1]

Super, I used the reference marks, I also broke the cam sprocket loose from the camshaft, then you can set it anywhere you want, after loosening the bolts, break the cam loose and then adjust it. Dont try to to catch it on the first try, move it back and forth a little and then it will go where you want it to.

 

[whitedog]

Some rough numbers from my 2004. I apologize for the lack of formatting.

First set is with Torsion at 0.0.

0-60 --- 1/4 ---- 40-60 --- 660
14.4 --20.1@64 --7.6 --- 12.9@56
14.1 --19.6@68 --7.8 --- 12.4@55
13.9 --19.6@68 --7.8 --- 12.5@56
14.2 --19.9@68 --7.6 --- 12.8@56

Next is with Torsion at 2.9

13.4 --19.4@68 --7.3 --- 12.3@57
13.4 --19.3@68 --7.3 --- 12.3@56
13.5 --19.5@69 --7.2 --- 12.5@57

I need to note that these were not back to back runs and I didn't note the weather the first time but I think it may have been cooler on the second run.

I'm not good at seat of the pants, so I need empirical numbers to try to eliminate the placebo effect.

I shifted at 4000 RPMs each time and I used the same start point on the same road each time.

I'll try to get it up between 4.5 and 5 and run it again.

 

[bwknight877]

has anyone seen any noticable impact on their fuel economy since doing this mod?

I have the same issue with my '06 TDI, and I'm considering this as a fix for the lumpy idle

 

[SootHappens]

I just got 47mpg on my last tank...

it's set at 3.7

 

[wjdell]

I ran a log and the Torsion value is way different running -.5 to -1

 

[whitedog]

I just got 47mpg on my last tank...

it's set at 3.7

Did you change it and if so, what was your typical mileage before?

 

[wjdell]

The number between 2 and 5 - in what manual shows this - paperback or elec.

 

[SootHappens]

Did you change it and if so, what was your typical mileage before?

Mine was -1 before. I changed it to 4.9 and thought the torque curve was weird, so backed it off to 3.7. (it seemed to be 'boosting' before 'fueling' - if that's even possible)

Before the adjustment my typical mileage was around 40, hardly ever more than 44. (I live 7mi of rural roads from the nearest hwy.. elevation from -10 to 850)

Shortly after the mod I had a new downpipe fabbed up and have gone through several "playful" tanks getting about 40mpg.

This last tank I put some effort into keeping the boost below 12psi, egt's low, and 65 on the freeway. Got 47.

I would say that the timing mod did not noticably impact my mileage in either direction... but the lumpy idle is gone and that makes me

 

[06SpiceRedTDI]

Did you change it and if so, what was your typical mileage before?

I've gotten over 50 MPG on my last to tanks, best before the adjustment was 49.87 so this definately doesn't seem to hurt the ability to get good mileage if anything it is just a hair bit better, but I will say having the smooth idle is priceless after driving for 33000 miles with the lumps at idle.

 

[whitedog]

Soot and spice, I didn't realize you two were right across the river from each other. If Soot is 7 miles from the highway, that puts you out towards Fern Hill?

 

[wjdell]

I ran a log for over 20 miles. At idle I show -.5 and when cruiising or accelerating I show a -1. My car idles very smooth so it makes you wonder what is really happening here.

Does adjusting this timing mask some underlying issue, possibly the DMF.

 

[SootHappens]

Soot and spice, I didn't realize you two were right across the river from each other. If Soot is 7 miles from the highway, that puts you out towards Fern Hill?

yup.. drive fern hill every day.. out to beaver-springs then Walker Rd.