TDI Cam Timing Adjustment (for rough idle) How-to (with pics)

SBAtdijetta

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TDI
'10 Jetta Cup 6spd, '02 Jetta Auto
dschein said:
Just did this mod over the weekend on my 06; went from -2.x to 2.9. Happy to report there is no more rough idle, it feels like there is more power (could all be in my head:rolleyes:), peak boost has gone up along with sustained boost.

Some people have posted about backing down this number. Two qestions on that:

1: Simply turn the 18MM bolt anti-clockwise?

2: If it's within spec, why?
1) Right counter clockwise will back it down to 0 then negative

2) Spec is very lose term here, and so is the spec...(-3 to 3 is a long way) If you have lots of smoke, then back it down. More smoke = > higher EGTs = Bad for your turbo.

I really want to know what kind of EGTs I was pushing with just RC1+ and the stock turbo, with the timing bumped up to (2). As now w/ an EGT gauge, a bigger turbo and the timing at (0) / smoke down I can get to 1600 f rather easy, and thats with a 3" open exhaust...:eek:

SpeedFreek said:
Ok, I did it. I am at about 2 right now and have had NO rough idle, the only problem is that I smoke quite a bit at higher RPMs. The onramp to the freeway looks like doomsday after I get on the freeway but only if I really get on the pedal. I do have the RC1 + on it and havent gotten the muffler removed yet, proably will get that done this week to see if that helps.

Would going back to 0 help anything? I like how the car is now with the exception of the black clouds at full throttle/high RPMs.
First cut the resonator and muffler and straight pipe those two sections no need for them at all. (-) or less weight, more flow and its not loud either.

Second depending on how much smoke, sounds like lots, I would back it back down some... JMHO

Like whitedog asked, where (what value) did you start OEM?

Steve
 
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DanG144

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Aug 2, 2007
Location
Chapin, South Carolina, USA
TDI
2005 A4 Jetta 5spd
speedfreek,
Is it normal (a couple of times per week) for you to run it this hard?
Mine smoked as you describe when I first bought it, but after routinely running it very hard a time or two a week, the smoke almost completely disappeared.
Apparently the previous owner did not blow the carbon out very often.
DanG
 

jsrmonster

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SpeedFreek said:
Ok, I did it. I am at about 2 right now and have had NO rough idle, the only problem is that I smoke quite a bit at higher RPMs. The onramp to the freeway looks like doomsday after I get on the freeway but only if I really get on the pedal. I do have the RC1 + on it and havent gotten the muffler removed yet, proably will get that done this week to see if that helps.

Would going back to 0 help anything? I like how the car is now with the exception of the black clouds at full throttle/high RPMs.
Hi speedfreek,
You need to put the mechanical cam-to-crank timing at TDC. Advancing your cam timing will smoke and kill your economy, and retarding it will give lumpy idle and poor performance too. Simply put the crank at TDC and pin the cam (by adjusting the cam pully w/3 bolts). You can see the mark/dimple on the crank pully, so simply line it up with the mark/indentation (at 12 oclock) on the cover. You can also find the TDC mark on the flywheel, or for perfection, use the arrows on the crank holder and crank sprocket when changing the TB ;-) (edit. if you don't know what you are doing, get a mechanic to help you or you could bang valves into pistons)

It seems like many folks are just arbitrarly setting this with vagcom while engine is either cold, warm, or hot. It seems that many are screwing up their timing and I need to reset it on many cars I tune now :-( Check it cold or unplug 3 temp sensors and AC off, for correct reading (coolant inlet/exit, and fuel temp sensors).
Jeff
 
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dschein

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Jul 21, 2006
Location
Reading, Pennsylvania
TDI
None
SBAtdijetta said:
1) Right counter clockwise will back it down to 0 then negative

2) Spec is very lose term here, and so is the spec...(-3 to 3 is a long way) If you have lots of smoke, then back it down. More smoke = > higher EGTs = Bad for your turbo.
Double checked mine this AM on the way to work and it's at 3.9. As for smoke, since I switched to B100 (many tanks ago) there is no smoke :D, so I'll log my EGT's on my drive home tonight to see where I'm at. At this point it looks like I'll be rolling it back to zero.

Thanks
 

SBAtdijetta

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Joined
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Location
Houston, TX
TDI
'10 Jetta Cup 6spd, '02 Jetta Auto
dschein,

And one more thing don't listen to me...lol

Listen to Jeff or someone else like Anut or others etc. who know what they are doing, ie their profession. You are your own warranty here.

jsrmonster said:
Hi speedfreek,
You need to put the mechanical cam-to-crank timing at TDC. Advancing your cam timing will smoke and kill your economy, and retarding it will give lumpy idle and poor performance too. Simply put the crank at TDC and pin the cam (by adjusting the cam pully w/3 bolts). You can see the mark/dimple on the crank pully, so simply line it up with the mark/indentation (at 12 oclock) on the cover. You can also find the TDC mark on the flywheel, or for perfection, use the arrows on the crank holder and crank sprocket when changing the TB ;-) (edit. if you don't know what you are doing, get a mechanic to help you or you could bang valves into pistons)

It seems like many folks are just arbitrarly setting this with vagcom while engine is either cold, warm, or hot. It seems that many are screwing up their timing and I need to reset it on many cars I tune now :-( Check it cold or unplug 3 temp sensors and AC off, for correct reading (coolant inlet/exit, and fuel temp sensors).
Jeff
 

Hurst89

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Kentucky
TDI
2005.5 Pkg 0 5spd TDI
Jeff, I am just wondering, is TDC shown on VAGCOM as 0 or does it need to be set mechanically using the markings and pin holes? If I am reading your message correctly, VAGCOM will give you TDC correctly if you have the temp sensors unplugged. Could you expand upon this. I guess I am to blame for the timing changes partially for writing this article...:eek:

Hurst
 

Mach1

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Set it straight up..Didn't someone else suggest this..Steve??

Its cam timing as well and the cam timing needs to be set up at 0 degrees..
 

SBAtdijetta

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Mach1 said:
Set it straight up..Didn't someone else suggest this..Steve??

Its cam timing as well and the cam timing needs to be set up at 0 degrees..
Lol :D Haha yes you caught me, I left you off my mistake. Randy got mine set up straight when I was up there. From +2 back to 0.
 

Mach1

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How is yours workin for ya?

Cam timing is straight up..
 

SBAtdijetta

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EGT's are still a bit high. I may mess with it some more. But still in the process of getting remapped. So I am not going to mess with it at all until that has been done. :D

One thing at a time from now on...;) That way I know what caused what.
 

Mach1

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Steve, you are grasping itnow(grasshopper). One variable at a time. later you can go back - a bit..
 

SBAtdijetta

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Mach1 said:
Steve, you are grasping itnow(grasshopper). One variable at a time. later you can go back - a bit..
:D hahaha, yes, I know I am a bit slow at first but then figure it out, well :eek: eventually... lol
 

dschein

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Rolled my timing back to 0.5 tonight, now to see how she drives in the AM.

While putting things back together I found a hose had been rubbing against my harness and had rubbed through the insulation on 1 wire. So the big perk is that I found that before it broke and was able to fix it. :)
 

dschein

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dschein said:
Rolled my timing back to 0.5 tonight, now to see how she drives in the AM.

While putting things back together I found a hose had been rubbing against my harness and had rubbed through the insulation on 1 wire. So the big perk is that I found that before it broke and was able to fix it. :)
After my morning drive (~75 miles) I'm still at .5 on idle and 0 under load (when driving).

I have noticed that the O2 temp (monitored on block 32 / field 2) has dropped about 10 degree C :eek: since I retarded the timing. Unfortunately I never monitored this temp before I advanced the timing so there is no baseline for me to compare it with.
 

Mach1

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Its good to tinker, you found a rubbed wire..good deal..
 

andreigbs

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Many thanks to Hurst and Whitedog, great writeup and solid info. Went outside and checked my '04 PD's torsion value an hour ago. Specs in VCDS 805 are -3 to +3 and mine was sitting at -1. Made the adjustment, went to +2.5 the first time, backed off to +1.5 and left it there.

Impressions? Smoother idle, almost no vibration felt, right around 1200 rpms there used to be a spot where engine rpms caused a vibration/shakiness that went away. Now it's almost completely unfelt. Revving is very smooth at idle. On the road, slight turbo lag till about 1800 rpms, then boost builds solidly without spiking anymore (boost gauge really useful here!) and peaks at 22, holds at 18-19 psi. Engine LOVES to rev past 3K and on, no visible smoke or even haze at WOT. Also noticed cooler IATs, but then again it's not as hot today. IATs used to get to 170*F on a hard 3rd-4th gear WOT pull. Today only got to 145*F. I'll report back after a couple tanks of fuel as to MPG effect.

For now, very happy I made the adjustment from -1 to +1.5; it made a noticeable difference, even at startup. Many thanks for the writeup Hurst, and to Whitey again for the detailed info before and after with your '04 PD.
 

kstef

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Jetta 2005.5 Black
After putzing TOO much, I'm back to 0.0

My Mileage went down a bit and I didn't feel any advantage.

I took Jeff's advice..:eek: I should have touched it!:p

Thanks you Jeff
 

Johhny04

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Markham, Ontario
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2003 Jetta TDi
I don't know about you guys, however my '04 PD, once you losen three 13mm cam bolts and turn the 18mm it just turns the whole TB around and round. It doesn't shift just the cam spocket. Am i doing somethig wrong? Is there another way?
 

Mach1

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Johnny, I just bump the wrench..The bolts have to be completely loose. Then you have to bump the center bolt, it takes a bit to break the sprocket loose from the cam..

The TB cam tool is supposed to hold the sprocket while seperating the other cam sprocket part.
 

Johhny04

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Mach1 said:
Johnny, I just bump the wrench..The bolts have to be completely loose. Then you have to bump the center bolt, it takes a bit to break the sprocket loose from the cam..

The TB cam tool is supposed to hold the sprocket while seperating the other cam sprocket part.
So i have to also loosen the 18mm bolt?? I am a little confused. I loosened all three 13mm bolts and then turned the 18mm clockwise as posted in the first post, however the whole TB moved forward, nothing came loose. Do i have to install the cam tool, then loosen the three 13mm bolts and then turn the 18mm bolt clockwise? This will make it move forward without spinning the TB?
 

andreigbs

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Nothing is supposed to come loose, AFAIK. And moving the 18mm bolt IS moving the cam, AFAIK. You'll see two metal prongs between the engine and cam sprocket; watch those as you move the 18mm clockwise. BTW, moving the 18mm needs to be done a HAIR AT A TIME. It should be fairly solid-feeling. If that's the case, tighten up the 3 13mm bolts and check with VAG-com. There should be a change.
 

Mach1

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John, you dont loosen the 18mm, you turn it..Bump it a little bit and watch the slots, the 3 bolts should move in their slots..

Before you do anything, look at the 'window' in the sproket and there are teeth there. scribe a mark so the teeth will point at it, (just for reference), loosen the 3 13mm slotted cam bolts completely and just tighten enough to touch, then put your wrench on the 18mm and just bump the wrench with your hand to break the assembly loose. I believe you will be turning the wrench towards the back of the car. Check the window again and you should have moved the mark about 1 tooth. Use this for reference, cause you only have to move it a tiny bit. Tighten 3 13mm bolts, torque to 18ftlbs. I just run the car here and check vag-com.

Good luck, if you dont completely understand this ask questions again..Thanks
 

Johhny04

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Reason why i wasn't able to do the adjustment is because when i put the TB on the cam pully the pully was already cranked all the way to the right, clockwise. Instead of being in the middle of the 13mm bolts it somehow moved all the way over, even though i had the cam lock in place the whole time, if that has anything to do with it. And so there was no room for me to adjust and that is why the 18mm bolt when cranked clockwise, turns the whole TB system. I have to take the belt off, adjust the cam pulley so the 13mm bolts are in the middle of the adjustment space, then put the belt on, and adjust for timing using VAG-Com. As of now, the engine is too retarded, have a reading of -7.
As they say you learn once.
 

andreigbs

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Has the TB been replaced once? Sounds like you're having a harder time than almost everyone else. The important thing is to adjust it so it's in spec on VAG-com. If you have doubts, always double-check that the crank is at TDC in the little tranny window, then check the arrows on the cam pulley. Get everything lined up before you make other adjustments. Good luck.
 

Mach1

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John, hold up...first of all -7 is too far advanced, I believe you have it backwards...I bet you are trying to turn it the wrong way..GO BAck THE OTHER WAY AND CHECK THE vAG-COM..

I bet you are confused..Good Luck
 

Johhny04

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Spine said:
Is there any way for me to put my timing back to 0 without using a vag-com, such as using the timing marks?

Thanks,

Mike
You need Vag-Com otherwise you will never know the exact reading.
 

jsrmonster

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Spine said:
Is there any way for me to put my timing back to 0 without using a vag-com, such as using the timing marks?

Thanks,

Mike
Yes, you don't need vagcom to set the base mechanical timing of cam-to-crank at zero. You just need some working knowledge about cars. (PD's don't need vagcom, but rotaries need it to set pump timing.)

However, some guys shouldn't work on cars when they don't understand which way to turn a wrench. If you don't understand what you are doing with timing belts, you can trash an engine!

http://forums.tdiclub.com/showpost.php?p=2233867&postcount=94

Jeff
 
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