Summary of Delvac UOA in a VE TDI

[wjdell]

D1 ESP will give great results - Amsoil DEO will give great results and so will S9000 CJ4 - albeit the S9000 is the closest in additve levels and vis to the VAG oils.

 

[tditom]

...when my UOA test results started coming back with far lower than average Fe wear rates many of the gurus here felt that my excellent results were in large part (if not completely) the result of my exclusive use of high quality virgin soy ASTM biodiesel which i picked up directly from the refinery. some dismissed my UOA results entirely as not being apple to apple comparable with everyone else's D2 fueled TDI UOA results...

Maybe = lower soot, and lower soot = lower wear?

Hopefully tooslick will chime in.

 

[tikal]

D1 ESP will give great results - Amsoil DEO will give great results and so will S9000 CJ4 - albeit the S9000 is the closest in additve levels and vis to the VAG oils.

How come now when I go to the Amsoil Online Product Application Guide the DEO no longer appears for my 2002 Golf. The recommendation is now for the Synthetic 5W-40 European Engine Oil (about the same price per quart).

Any technical reason for this? I live in SE Texas with relatively mild winters. I would like to order soon for my next oil change.

Thanks in advance for any inputs.

 

[Drivbiwire]

A 5w40 will outperform the 15w40 everytime (whether it's synthetic or not) in terms of flow capability ie a 5w vs 15w. Initial startup regardless of outside temperature will benefit the engine and turbo. In the TDI this will also provide improved protection to the turbo bearing and thrust bearing given the distance from the motor that the oil has to travel.

Amsoil is smart to only recomend the 5w40, this oil is very closely formulated for the TDI and is without a doubt a great oil for the VE engines.

DB

 

[Bob_Fout]

A 5w40 will outperform the 15w40 everytime (whether it's synthetic or not) in terms of flow capability ie a 5w vs 15w. Initial startup regardless of outside temperature will benefit the engine and turbo. In the TDI this will also provide improved protection to the turbo bearing and thrust bearing given the distance from the motor that the oil has to travel.

Amsoil is smart to only recomend the 5w40, this oil is very closely formulated for the TDI and is without a doubt a great oil for the VE engines.

DB

Both DEO and AFL are 5w40. DEO is CJ-4, AFL is 505.01.

 

[mrGutWrench]

Both DEO and AFL are 5w40. DEO is CJ-4, AFL is 505.01.

__. Is that "505.01 -- Approved and listed by VW" or "505.01 -- Marketing Speak"?????

 

[Bob_Fout]

__. Is that "505.01 -- Approved and listed by VW" or "505.01 -- Marketing Speak"?????

Irrelevant to the situation at hand.

Pete thought DEO was a 15w40 dino, while in fact it's a 5w40 synthetic.

Why Amsoil changed recommendation of DEO (CJ-4) back in favor of AFL (505.01) for VEs, I don't know.

 

[tditom]

How come now when I go to the Amsoil Online Product Application Guide the DEO no longer appears for my 2002 Golf. The recommendation is now for the Synthetic 5W-40 European Engine Oil (about the same price per quart).

Any technical reason for this? I live in SE Texas with relatively mild winters. I would like to order soon for my next oil change.

Thanks in advance for any inputs.

I'll bet its because the Euro oil more closely matches the OE specs (VW505.00) of the vehicle, instead of a generic standard that is more geared for HD diesel apps.

 

[wjdell]

USE DEO - not AFL

 

[Bob_Fout]

I'm going to e-mail them and ask why they've changed the recommendation twice now.

 

[TornadoRed]

USE DEO - not AFL

Yes, it does appear that the DEO 5w40 performs better than the AFL 5w40.

So if you have a VE engine (2003-and-earlier), use the DEO. If you have a PD engine, use a a motor oil not made by Amsoil.

 

[Bob_Fout]

Yes, it does appear that the DEO 5w40 performs better than the AFL 5w40.

So if you have a VE engine (2003-and-earlier), use the DEO. If you have a PD engine, use a a motor oil not made by Amsoil.

Where is this info coming from?

 

[wjdell]

It does not matter what 505.01 you use, if your engine is doing poorly then the counts will be high - DID - AFL - Specific - TXT - TS. They all have had good UOA's and bad UOA's. I just saw a UOA were the guy did normal with ELF CRV - 30 PPM and then switched to DID and had 100 PPM in 10k OCI's. I had good Specific UOA's and a good AFL, switched to SLX and it was good also. ITS NOT THE OIL. Its the current state of the motor, the fuel and the driver..

 

[tikal]

Thanks for the responses guys, I am going to order the DEO 5w40 like I did last year.

 

[VFchicago88]

injection pump, yes. engine wear? not so sure. I thought there was actually a danger to the engine lube from high bd concentrations. Polymerization was the issue. The standing advice has been to lower the OCI for engines running bd > 30%, IIRC.

i would imagine using b2-b11 would act as a "upper cylinder lubricant" and reduce ring wear and cylinder wall wear perhaps

 

[Bob_Fout]

I'm going to e-mail them and ask why they've changed the recommendation twice now.

"We list the AFL over DEO because it is closer to the Volkswagen
performance specification. The DEO would also be perfectly suitable for
your application, but we are not claiming to meet VW 505.00 with the
DEO."

 

[mannytranny]

FWIW.....I changed from 5W30 HDD in the VE car to the AFL (the goal was to use the same oil in the PD and VE) and I noticed a longer (quite a bit) tapping noise on startup with the 505.01 (AFL) oil. I have since ordered 507 ELF which I intend to use in both cars.

 

[dhdenney]

I went from AFL to LL3 but noticed no change in startup or idle characteristics.

 

[wjdell]

I went from AFL to LL3 and did not notice any change. But as the oil aged the mileage seem to increase. My mileage is way recently and the oil is but a tiny part of that. The A/C off took me up almost 3 mpg. Then I found out the cold start penalty is much greater than I thought. My last tank was up over 45. That is driving normally and I have never been able to do that without great effort before this. So I think a combination of factors are making the difference. Engine now has 28k, the LL3 is the thinnest oil I have run. Its winter so A/C use is minimal, but the cold start may be the biggest factor.

 

[Bob_Fout]

"Cold start" penalty in central FL? *eyebrow*

 

[wjdell]

Bob Bob -- when I start my engine in Florida its takes 4 miles in summer and 5 to 6 miles in winter to come to temp. Oil does not work well below 180F. Anything below 190 F in a 06 PD is cold. I put a 180 watt block heater in and I now hit 190 in less than 2.5 miles.

 

[Bob_Fout]

Bob Bob -- when I start my engine in Florida its takes 4 miles in summer and 5 to 6 miles in winter to come to temp. Oil does not work well below 180F. Anything below 190 F in a 06 PD is cold. I put a 180 watt block heater in and I now hit 190 in less than 2.5 miles.

Cold vs. warm vs. hot.

Pete's famous driving style tips....When the temp needle comes off of cold (the three lines) you are free to rev the warm motor past 2500 RPM, the oil is sufficiently warm to allow that. Motor's not hot until you get to 190*F on the gauge (really 160*F and up). Supposedly the additives don't kick in until 160*F, so you need to get the oil up to and past that temp quicky?

My comment was more along the lines of... the cold start penalty in Florida negligible (low temps of 40*F to 60*F and such) compared to places where it gets cold.

Your cold start penalty is a few MPG?

 

[wjdell]

48F is the lowest I have recorded in my garage, three times 2006-07. Most mournings its 55F and usually 58F. They say 90% of wear is at startup and 80% is due to condensation on the cylinder walls during cold combustion. If thats true then my wear numbers should decrease.

 

[Diesel Addict]

Pete's famous driving style tips....When the temp needle comes off of cold (the three lines) you are free to rev the warm motor past 2500 RPM, the oil is sufficiently warm to allow that. Motor's not hot until you get to 190*F on the gauge (really 160*F and up). Supposedly the additives don't kick in until 160*F, so you need to get the oil up to and past that temp quicky?

Not revving the engine too high while it's cold is a good idea but it has nothing to do with additives and everything to do with viscosity. Cold oil is viscous and has a hard time flowing to where it needs to be. The anti-wear additives build up over time on metal surfaces due to heat and pressure and they don't go dormant when the oil cools, at least I never heard of such a thing.

 

[SUNRG]

Bob Bob -- when I start my engine in Florida its takes 4 miles in summer and 5 to 6 miles in winter to come to temp. Oil does not work well below 180F. Anything below 190 F in a 06 PD is cold. I put a 180 watt block heater in and I now hit 190 in less than 2.5 miles.

how long does the block heater need to be powered before driving your TDI to achieve this?

 

[Bob_Fout]

Another thought wjdell about heaters and the like, a TDI heater would be better than a block heater. You'd have no cold start pentalty then, water temp of 160*F or more right at startup, along with warm oil and warm tranny fluid.

 

[wjdell]

The frost heater was intrusive and as well over 750 watts. The block heater strapped to the oil pan. At 180 watts the electric will be very little at night. My temp is above 100 F before I get on the hwy about 4/10 mile. Then 2 miles later I am at 190F. The heat from the oil pan rises up and warms the block. The heater was $ 25.88

 

[Bob_Fout]

The frost heater was intrusive and as well over 750 watts. The block heater strapped to the oil pan. At 180 watts the electric will be very little at night. My temp is above 100 F before I get on the hwy about 4/10 mile. Then 2 miles later I am at 190F. The heat from the oil pan rises up and warms the block. The heater was $ 25.88

TDI heater is 1000 watts, only one kW-hour. With a timer, an hour or two and everything would be toasty. And less risk of fire.

Intrusive? Maybe the MK V one is made differently?

Wait, you have highway driving? "Cold start penalty " applies even more.

I thought of something last night. Do we know at what temp the ECU stops injecting more fuel than normal due to a cold engine?

 

[wjdell]

I do not know about the ECU but I imagine the soner its warm the better.

FIRE - I will take its temp but I am sure its no more than 350 on the plate, 2 3/4 x 3 3/4. I could touch the housing and hold my hand to it without discomfort. I will make sure it stays clean every OC. The wire was carefully supported and I checked the wire at 2 amps it does not even get warm. I am not going to worry about fire anymore than the element of a frost heater, its got elec running to it also. I will write the company and express concern see what they say. I imagine it has a internal link that would burn up just like a starter.

 

[dhdenney]

TDI Heater is not intrusive on A5 Jetta. It mounts right below the oil filter housing. It's tight, but it's a great fit and doesn't touch anything.