stick with G52 in your tranny - here's why...

[bl00tdi]

You need an API, GL-4 fluid regardless of viscosity. The Amsoil, 5w-30 Syncromesh fluid is a GL-1, as are most of these fluids. These really shouldn't be used in this transaxle due to the differential gears. The Amsoil Hydraulic/Transmission fluid lists GL-4 performance - I've toyed with the idea of trying that. But I won't recommend it before experimenting on my own vehicle.

Redline MTL is one of the thinner GL-4 fluids out there.

I'd agree the OEM stuff is really a 70w-80 grade.

TS

According to this thread both GM and Pennzoil synchromesh fluids contain GL-4 additive packs.

http://www.bobistheoilguy.com/forums/ubbthreads.php/topics/3073107/2

Interesting discussion.

 

[robnitro]

The OEM is not even a 70w80, which should be around 10 Cst@100C.
The OEM is more around 7, even a bit thinner than the syncromesh fluids according to BITOG forum post from bl00tdi (thanks!).
Meanwhile the Pennzoil syncromesh is around 9.3cst, close to the 70w80 group.
The GM syncromesh being around a 10.5, is a 70w80... Both thicker than the OEM garbage, yet shift great in the cold AND hot!

Now that we know it has a GL-4 add pack, even better!

Seeing how the 75w90 fluids are in the 15 cst viscosity range, you see how this phony VW rating of 75w90 is ridiculously wrong, as their fluid is not even a 70w80.

 

[bl00tdi]

Agree on all points. I believe G070 to be unsuitable for use in hot climates or cold areas during the summer. Shifting action just plummets when its hot out and the diff whine is disconcerting to say the least. Synchromesh-type fluids seem to be a happy compromise for all climates. The Pennzoil product seems to not be as shear stable as some OEM products according to UOA's, however. This would coincide with what I experienced in my gearbox. I'm going to give the AC Delco FM fluid a spin as soon as I feel better and see how it performs.

 

[bl00tdi]

First impressions of AC Delco FM synchromesh fluid are highly favorable. G070 never allowed for the shifter to slide into place like this. It really makes the gearbox feel sophisticated combined with the DG short throw. Hope it remains this good.

Interesting that it lacks the sulfur smell of most gear lubes. I guess since the Synchromesh fluids are meant for specific gearboxes without hypoid gears it doesn't need the same EP additive packs. But it meets GL-4 protection gear protection specs, so I'm good.

 

[FXDL]

Amsoil MTG sucks when the temp., is cool out 5C and under from 1st gear to second mostly until it has warmed. Think I will try the GM synchromesh fluid as that is what GM uses in 600 hp Vett. Amsoil makes a synchromesh fluid and I wonder if that is any good. Anyone out tried the Amsoil synchromesh fluid?

 

[FXDL]

How about Redline as they are a GL-4 and they have 3 ATF's to choice from that just might be wright for our manual trans.

 

[Lensdude_com]

How about Redline as they are a GL-4 and they have 3 ATF's to choice from that just might be wright for our manual trans.

I wouldn't put anybody's ATF in my manual trans...and Redline MTL will affect the 1-2 shift and selecting 1st when the temps get below -15C/5F if the rumours are true

 

[Jr mason]

I dumped a GL4 for a Pennzoil Synchromesh and it shifts exponentially better than what was previously in there. I won't run anything else now.

 

[PhotoWrite]

Mtl

I wouldn't put anybody's ATF in my manual trans...and Redline MTL will affect the 1-2 shift and selecting 1st when the temps get below -15C/5F if the rumours are true

Interesting that you posted this about the 1-2 shift and MTL. I put MTL in the transaxle of our 2013 JSW early, car now has 20k logged. The 1-2 shift is not smooth like it was for a decade with MTL in the transaxle of our 2000 Golf TDI.

I've been considering trying MT-90 in the JSW (I like Red Line), what I'll be putting into my Ram/Cummins truck 6-speed G56 transmission, but maybe that will be too thick. I know MT-90 is much thicker than the current lube recommended by VW.

 

[Lensdude_com]

Here's a list of manual transmission fluids from BITOG:
Manual Transmission Fluids (MTL) Fluids containing MTL Application Specific Additive Packages with GL-4 Ratings

Choosing a Manual Transmission fluid can be confusing.

Many times there is simply a specification referenced and no information about the viscosity of a fluid at 100C, where the oil viscosity is documented at the higher testing temperature.

What I recommend you do when looking for a replacement fluid is to determine the viscosity of the fluid at 100C either from the manufacturer's Product Data Sheet or from a New oil Analysis or VOA.

After knowing the viscosity at 100C (212F), one can then attempt to match up the fluid to one or more of those below:

A. The four MTL fluids closest to a Kinematic Viscosity of 6.1 (About the same viscosity as a DexronVI) or so are:

1. Castrol Syntrans FE 75W,

2. BMW (Pentosin) MTF-LT-3,

3. Honda MTII or MTF 2.

4. Ford FML-XT-11-QDC


B. The next higher viscosity MTL would be the 7.5 cSt versions (About the same viscosity as a DexronIII)

1. Royal Purple's Synchromax

2. Ravenol MTF-2

3. Honda MTF

4. VW part number G052512A2

5. GM Manual Transmission and Transfer Case Fluid

6. BMW (Pentosin) MTF-LT-1, 2


C. The next higher viscosity MTL would be Castrol Syntrans V FE 75W-80 8.0cSt

D. The next higher viscosity MTL would be BG Synchroshift II 8.2 cSt

E. The next higher viscosity is Mopar Type MS-9417 MTL 9.0cSt

F. The next higher viscosity MTL would be Pennzoil Synchromesh 9.3 cSt




G. The next group of MTL’s are in the 10.x cSt range are:

1. Redline MTL 70W80.

2. Amsoil MTL

3. GM Synchromeshs’

4. Volvo MTF 645

5. Ford Motor Craft XT-M5-QS


H. The next higher viscosity MTL would be:

1. Redline MT-85 – 12.0 cSt



I. The next higher viscosity MTLs would be:

1. Amsoil MTG 14.5 cSt

2. Redline MT-90 15.6 cSt

3. Castrol Syntrans Multivehicle 75W-90

 

[kwong7]

I just swapped out my 80K mile old Redline MT90 with GM Synchromesh and it's noticeably smoother, especially in 1st and 2nd gear. It took about 1.8 qts to refill after a level draining of the old fluid. Bought the MTF through a vendor on Amazon.com for $12/qt with $6 shipping. We'll see how it holds up.

 

[Richard55]

I rebuild transmissions and do fluid changes all the time. In a high mileage 5 speed I would never go back to VW fluid. It just doesn't work effectively. I am sold on Penzoil Syncomesh in the yellow bottle. Smooth shifting and a longer lasting box. You can get it at any Advance Auto, it is my choice. I think the main problem with the 5 speed is that no one ever changes the fluid until they start to have shifting challenges. Change the fluid at least every 3 years or at the timing belt change.

 

[jimbote]

I rebuild transmissions and do fluid changes all the time. In a high mileage 5 speed I would never go back to VW fluid. It just doesn't work effectively. I am sold on Penzoil Syncomesh in the yellow bottle. Smooth shifting and a longer lasting box. You can get it at any Advance Auto, it is my choice. I think the main problem with the 5 speed is that no one ever changes the fluid until they start to have shifting challenges. Change the fluid at least every 3 years or at the timing belt change.

this^^.... do your trans a favor and dump the OEM stuff for synchromesh ... your trans and right arm will thank you

 

[PhotoWrite]

I rebuild transmissions and do fluid changes all the time. In a high mileage 5 speed I would never go back to VW fluid. It just doesn't work effectively. I am sold on Penzoil Syncomesh in the yellow bottle. Smooth shifting and a longer lasting box. You can get it at any Advance Auto, it is my choice. I think the main problem with the 5 speed is that no one ever changes the fluid until they start to have shifting challenges. Change the fluid at least every 3 years or at the timing belt change.

this^^.... do your trans a favor and dump the OEM stuff for synchromesh ... your trans and right arm will thank you

These last two posts lead me to believe my preferred Red Line MTL might still be a very good choice...
I put MTL in the transaxle of our 2013 JSW at the first oil change, and ran it for years/125,000 miles in our 2000 Golf.
What do you think of using MTL (75w-80) in the newer 6-speed manual transmissions? Long term protection and low wear is my priority.

 

[robnitro]

MTL was notchy below 30F for me. Syncromesh and OEM g052 g070 were not, though.

 

[PhotoWrite]

I'm generally a low, patient shifter, but with both the OE fluid and MTL our '13 JSW seems notchy going from 1-2, most but not every time. If I wait longer, rev first higher and then let it spin down, wait, then use more pressure before shifting, as if waiting for the gears to slow and mesh, seems better.

My wife is the regular driver of our TDI. She drives a manual well, but I'm not sure she feels they same thing, or if her technique is different or better. As long as the tranny is not wearing quickly I can live with the 1-2 shift. For me it's not just in cold temps, but much of the time. I use MTL in another application and it would be nice to continue using in the '13 TDI as well.

 

[bl00tdi]

Glad to see the synchromesh style fluids catching traction here but I think it'd be useful to specify the brand, as they are not all the same. Valvoline/Pennzoil/AC Delco/Amsoil..


The real advantage of MTL over the synchromesh's are drain intervals since Group IV/V oils are highly resistant to shear. If the intervals are kept between 20-30k I'd be surprised if there was much difference in protection. MTL has similar viscosity @ 100C to the GM Synchromesh which seems to do fairly well in cold temps. It must have a lower viscosity index than the GM fluid so it starts off thicker when cold. Just guessing aloud here based on robnitro's experience with both fluids.

 

[robnitro]

I looked up some specs quickly to compare syncromesh to MTL.
I couldn't find a proper spec sheet for the GM / ACDelco syncromesh so this is from Pennzoil Syncromesh.

Gear oil Viscosity@40C Viscosity@100C Viscosity Index
MTL 50.8 10.2 171
P Syncromesh 41.6 9.08 208

So yeah, the MTL thickens up quicker, even at 40C which is 104F!
The viscosity index would just make the thickening effect more pronounced down in the lower temperatures, where cold weather shifting happens.

 

[ezshift5]

.................altho' at 20k my JSW TDI 6M 1-2 shift seems easy (notchless) and I've a long way to go until transmission service:

Does any member have feedback on GMSFM?

I put 80,000 miles on this goo (Accord 6M with difficult 3rd gear shift).


best.ez

 

[tikal]

Is the Pennzoil manual transmission oil suitable for a five speed TDI (EEN gearbox in my case) this one?

http://www.pennzoil.com/other-car-p...luids-and-gear-oil/manual-transmission-fluid/

 

[robnitro]

Not sure what is the normal vw oem spec fluid. If it is g70 g60 g52, the pennzoil syncromesh is ok. The gm/ac delco synchromesh is better and you can find it on ebay.
I have been using the gm synchromesh friction modified and its been much better than the g70 even in the winter cold.

 

[ezshift5]

GM SynchroMesh Friction Modified

I have been using the gm synchromesh friction modified and its been much better than the g70 even in the winter cold.

Thanks Rob...............

GMSFM cured the resistive shift into 3rd gear - due to the synchro system design flaw - noted on Honda/Acura 6M units circa mid 2000s............


Holidays best.

ez

 

[Paul in Denver]

Help!

I'm new to both TDI and auto transmission world. Just bought 2005 TDI Wagon with 135k. Tiptronic auto. Some folks have said I need to consult with VW Dealership regarding which fluid to use. I'm in northern FL and won't be home (Denver) for several weeks and several thousand miles. I'd really like to do a shady tree flush/replace of transmission fluid. Suggestions for kits etc...or any recommendations is much appreciated. I have the Bentley tech manual..haven't even cracked the binding.

 

[roadhard1960]

Paul in Denver, I believe you may be lost. This thread was about manual transmissions and gear lubes for said transmission. ;-)

There is a search function inside the group or a Google/Bing search may also give you some answers.

 

[HopefulFred]

I'm having a little data overload wading through this thread - haven't been logging in much lately. So please humor me and help me with a fluid choice.

My '06 Golf (BEW, O2J [EUH]) has about 145,000 miles. I drive it hard and have replaced the gear oil several times over the life - first around 60K, then around 90K, then I think once more around 120K, always with G52 fluids (sometimes from the dealership, sometimes other reputable sources). Just after 140K I began to notice significant trouble into second (both down and up, but especially down) and into third, both down and up. I recently replaced the fluid - about three weeks ago - in hopes that I could smooth that out. I used Febi Nr. 21829 (bottle says SAE 75W GL-4) which I think is OE equivalent, though not actually OE. Anyway, there has been no improvement at all in my shifting troubles. I occasionally grind a little as a result, but mostly it has just made revv-matching more demanding and often slower, as I occasionally get a little bit stranded in nuetral, trying to avoid forcing the shifter.

Does this sound like a problem that I can mitigate with a different fluid? If so, which one?

Fred

 

[robnitro]

Yes, GM syncromesh helped me and others a lot with hard shifting. The OEM way back used to be a great synthetic but has become less smooth with newer versions.
It also works well in BMWs that spec atf or bmw manual lubes.

 

[HopefulFred]

Thanks for the quick feedback Rob. I'll start shopping.

 

[bl00tdi]

HopefulFred you may be suffering from a shifter linkage issue. I'd recommend searching (or posting as a last resort) in the MKIV forum for further information.

 

[BLKGTTDI]

I've read this thread and researched elsewhere for days and not found the information I need. Apologies if I've missed anything but my head is absolutely spinning with info, names, makes & numbers!

I have a 54 plate Mk5 VW Golf GT TDI 140 with a 6 speed box

The one & only specified gear oil that I see for this vehicle is G052 171 A2!

Due to 1st to 2 gear grind (only when cold) I'm desperate to try one of the synchromesh style fluids but am completely clueless which brand may be compatible if any Valvoline/Pennzoil/GM/AC Delco/Amsoil.

Has any Mk5 owners with a 6 speed gearbox tried any synchromesh fluids for better shifting with success?

Many thanks!

 

[jimbote]

I've read this thread and researched elsewhere for days and not found the information I need. Apologies if I've missed anything but my head is absolutely spinning with info, names, makes & numbers!
I have a 54 plate Mk5 VW Golf GT TDI 140 with a 6 speed box
The one & only specified gear oil that I see for this vehicle is G052 171 A2!
Due to 1st to 2 gear grind (only when cold) I'm desperate to try one of the synchromesh style fluids but am completely clueless which brand may be compatible if any Valvoline/Pennzoil/GM/AC Delco/Amsoil.
Has any Mk5 owners with a 6 speed gearbox tried any synchromesh fluids for better shifting with success?
Many thanks!

any of the SM fluids will work fine in your box ... i've used them in 02M's with no issue