Simplified Setting of PD Injector Lash

jimbote

Vendor
Joined
Jul 10, 2006
Location
spiral arm, milky way (aka central NC)
TDI
Tacoma 4x4 converted to TDI
I won't gamble then and I'll pull the belly pan and side shield and turn at the crankshaft. I am changing injectors and one thing I had in mind was to use my Frostheater to warm the block a bit. Hoping that the block will heat up a few degrees warmer than the injector body to help with getting the injectors out. Running the engine to warm it up runs warm oil across the injector, plus the spring makes heat, and the injector pump makes heat. I've seen in other threads that the injectors pull easier on a warm engine, and I think the Frostheater method might make a teeny bit of difference in temp between cylinder head and injector body. I can do the same thing to put the new injectors in. Any thoughts pro or con?
warm might help .... I found that prying the injector body toward the clamp side helps as they tend to wear grooves into the head opposite the clamp and can hang up damaging the bore
 

Nutsnbolts

Vendor , w/Business number
Joined
Nov 1, 2001
Location
Weare, NH
TDI
2000 Jetta, Silver Arrow
I've never had a problem getting the PD injectors out, hot or cold, using the puller. Jimbote's advice is good though, as I can see it happening. Because the injectors have O-rings that seal them, they don't seem to stick like something threaded (think glow plug) does.

-Rich
 

Richptl

Vendor
Joined
Jan 11, 2011
Location
Apalachin, NY
TDI
2004 Jetta TDI automatic 305,000 miles
Thanks for the tips all I got the PD150's installed yesterday and car is running now. I'll have to check the idle stabilization #'s in a couple days with VCDS to see how well I did, but this lash check worked out easy. Some observations:

* Old PD100 038 130 073 BF injectors were stuck in pretty well. I turned them back and forth with vice grips holding onto the octagonal end of the injector solenoid and pulled. The motor was warmed up with my Frostheater. Warm, not hot.
* I did get the Bosch model injector seal kits which cost under $15 each, much less than the VW part #. The seals went on easily, careful not to roll them. Used Dieselpurge to lube them up.
* I had the used PD150 injectors soaking (old seals removed, new seals not on yet) for 1 1/2 weeks in Dieselpurge.

Another thing I did because I have a Racor 645 2 micron fuel filter with test ports and a gauge test port at the tandem pump, I installed a hose between Racor filter outlet and tandem pump outlet and ran a wire to the electric fuel pump. Ran several minutes and pushed about 2 quarts of fuel from return line into a gallon jug. Took hose off, hooked up fuel pump normally. Car started in 2 seconds and ran smoothly almost immediately.

There was some good fretting in the injector bores and the injectors on the side opposite the hold down clamp. I cleaned up the bore with emery cloth. Flushed that junk down into the cylinder with a small rinse with Dieselpurge. Blew all fuel out of cylinders with glow plugs pulled with a 2 second crank prior to the fuel prime.

Removing and installing my skid plate is a little tricky due to the side shield on the pulley end of the engine being a tight fit around my modified 1.8 T pancake pipe and beefed up intercooler piping.

I check MPG every fill-up and have been noticing a drop off this winter, down to about 40 mpg. I'll see what happens in the next few tankfulls with the PD150's.
 

rentstdi

Veteran Member
Joined
Feb 18, 2005
Location
River of fall
TDI
jetta, 05, platnum
I would say cold. Warm or hot settings are wayyyyy to difficult to complete before engines cool off... Plus it's not a scientific method
 

Ivan77

New member
Joined
Sep 29, 2013
Location
Argentina
TDI
VW BORA 06
valve setting, any help please

Apologies for thread revival...
i'm going to be doing this procedure on my mk5 as it wasnt done when we changed the injectors 22,000 miles ago and i'm trying to eliminate things for my current 'best' of 43mpg (UK) motorway mileage....
am i correct in understanding the procedure is as follows:
1) remove rocker cover
2) Rotate CAM using 18mm spanner until the rear of the roller of the rocker arm is at its highest point... (thus compressing the injector the most)
3) screw the adjusting screw in all the way in until resistance is felt
4) turn the adjusting screw BACK 180 degrees
5) maintain position of adjusting screw and tighten the lock nut
6) repeat the procedure 1-5 with the other 3 injectors
i'm guessing the use of the dial gauge in the bentley manual/vw workshop manual is to ensure the rocker follower is at its highest point and the injector is compressed the most?
many thanks for any help

What is the correct method for the job? which is the order of valves adjustment 1,3,4 2 or 4,3,2,1? Could someone please describe the method BENTLEY.
My valve setting is fail, I use a dial indicator and 1,3,4,2 order, but failed. When last valve is adjusted (number two) the valves 1 and 3 are very big gap.
Thank you very much!!!!!

*sorry for my English!*
 

tdivaughn

Member
Joined
Mar 7, 2013
Location
Colorado Springs, CO
TDI
1997(ahu motor) and 2006 Jettas
Item number #2 on Apples12 is incorrect.

The cam should not be turned until the injector is completely compressed. If you do this you will cause an interference condition, which may break the timing belt and/or bend the valves.

Valve lash - like injector lash - needs to be performed when the cam is on base circle (when the the injector lobe is at lowest point). If you read the instructions at the top of the post, Frank06 tells you to do lash when the intake lobe is at it's highest point relative to the head (and then the injector is on it's lowest point on the cam) - but it SHOULD BE DONE when the intake valve is closing, which makes the exhaust valve lobe the thing that is highest above the head that you must align with the roller pivot . If you look at Frank06's picture again, you will see that the EXHAUST valve lobe should be right across from the injectors roller pivot. Frank06 said as much in his post (about the intake lobe, but should be the exhaust lobe), if you are careful to read it.

Again, the injector lobe needs to be at it's lowest point, which is just after the intake valve closes and the exhaust lobe lines up with the roller pivot on the injector rocker arm (motor turns clockwise at the crank bolt). After you back off the lash by 180 degrees, the rocker arm should have just a little play in it. If you turn the motor over by hand (twice, to make sure there is no interference in the motor), the rocker arm should NEVER be loose except for a little bit of play when it is on base circle.

If you don't know which is the exhaust lobe, line up the valve with the exhaust manifold, you will see which is the exhaust and which is the intake for every cylinder.

Yes, I know I am dredging up an old post, but since I was doing injector install and injector lash on a BLS/BRM motor swap- and this is the first post that my search on injector lash showed up - I thought it might be important to correct before someone trashes their engine.

I also looked through the Bentley manual and a Haynes manual - they both have it wrong too. Yes, it is possible for people to make a mistake printing out the manual, and it can be propagated throughout other reference materials. I attepmted it their way initially, but the engine locked up and the spring inside the timing belt idler stretched (causing the timing belt timing to become incorrect). The way they have it posted in the reference material is simply wrong.
 
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Dimitri16V

Top Post Dawg
Joined
Jan 30, 2005
Location
DE
TDI
01 Golf, 04 Golf
Just did this today . The injectors were untouched since the factory
Inj quantity deviation had been increasing for 3 cylinders
I found the lock nuts definitely not torqued to spec. I readjusted the injectors ( Thanks Frank06) and the values came down to some degree
It is definitely a good idea to check them especially on a high mileage vehicle and maybe compensate for wear on the ball studs
 

Dimitri16V

Top Post Dawg
Joined
Jan 30, 2005
Location
DE
TDI
01 Golf, 04 Golf
Item number #2 on Apples12 is incorrect.

The cam should not be turned until the injector is completely compressed. If you do this you will cause an interference condition, which may break the timing belt and/or bend the valves.

Valve lash - like injector lash - needs to be performed when the cam is on base circle (when the the injector lobe is at lowest point). If you read the instructions at the top of the post, Frank06 tells you to do lash when the intake lobe is at it's highest point relative to the head (and then the injector is on it's lowest point on the cam) - but it SHOULD BE DONE when the intake valve is closing, which makes the exhaust valve lobe the thing that is highest above the head that you must align with the roller pivot . If you look at Frank06's picture again, you will see that the EXHAUST valve lobe should be right across from the injectors roller pivot. Frank06 said as much in his post (about the intake lobe, but should be the exhaust lobe), if you are careful to read it.

Again, the injector lobe needs to be at it's lowest point, which is just after the intake valve closes and the exhaust lobe lines up with the roller pivot on the injector rocker arm (motor turns clockwise at the crank bolt). After you back off the lash by 180 degrees, the rocker arm should have just a little play in it. If you turn the motor over by hand (twice, to make sure there is no interference in the motor), the rocker arm should NEVER be loose except for a little bit of play when it is on base circle.

If you don't know which is the exhaust lobe, line up the valve with the exhaust manifold, you will see which is the exhaust and which is the intake for every cylinder.

Yes, I know I am dredging up an old post, but since I was doing injector install and injector lash on a BLS/BRM motor swap- and this is the first post that my search on injector lash showed up - I thought it might be important to correct before someone trashes their engine.

I also looked through the Bentley manual and a Haynes manual - they both have it wrong too. Yes, it is possible for people to make a mistake printing out the manual, and it can be propagated throughout other reference materials. I attepmted it their way initially, but the engine locked up and the spring inside the timing belt idler stretched (causing the timing belt timing to become incorrect). The way they have it posted in the reference material is simply wrong.
This post makes no sense
 

Tyanu888

Member
Joined
Apr 3, 2009
Location
Malta, Europe
TDI
Golf Mk5 TDi 2.0ltr
It is very confusing. I had my injectors reconditioned and cleaned by a bosch authorised garage and they told me to lash the injectors I must turn back 270degrees. Here they say 180 degrees. Did they say 270 because they spray heavier atomised diesel? I times the injectors at 180 degrees and result is no power until 2800revs and lots of vibration until the engine boosts. Dmf is new and all vacuum pipes are new. Turbo is perfect also. I guess it is all about the injector/Rocker arm clearance. 180, 225 or 270 degrees?? I have a 2.0ltr tdi 16v BKD 2006 model. Any help would be appreciated. Tyanu888@hotmail.com
Thanks.
 

oldpoopie

Vendor
Joined
May 14, 2001
Location
Portland Oregon
TDI
2001 golf gl, 2006 jetta, 1981 ALH swapped rabbit pickup, 1998 beetle
270 was the early instructions for PD. Later instructions say 180. No hardware changes so most do 180 now.
 

ig109

Veteran Member
Joined
Jun 26, 2009
Location
Columbus IN
TDI
2004 PD Jetta Wagon 5 speed
BEW with 270k on the clock.. did timing belt and camshaft change on the car over an evening fired up the car (cam sensor code came active when I washed the engine prior to beginning this project and a new one is on the way)

I have a 0 in the torsion value due to no cam sensor.. was 1.5 before I started this. My friend and I ran across this thread and thought "why not at least check them".

Inj 3 took a turn and a half of adjustment while the other three took only half a turn. Now the idle fuel deviation is way off compared to where it was.

Is this value something that the engine will have to trim back once the cam sensor is in place and the torsion value is set? I assume it is so unhappy at the moment due to lack of knowledge of where the cam is.

Sorry.. I know this is lengthy.. I intend to post elsewhere as well.
 

fakitol

Active member
Joined
Jan 10, 2015
Location
Lithuania
TDI
Audi A3, 2005, 2L 16V
Hi,

my BKD engine had cold start problem. All 4 injectors were not seating correctly. The problem was successfully fixed. Car starts fine in the mornings, but now I've got low rev.
torque problems. Is it injector adjustment problem or what?

Injection qty at idle is 5,8mg/str, Torsion 0.0. Cyl. deviations are slightly above/below 0.0.
 

540ess

New member
Joined
Nov 10, 2019
Location
Norway
TDI
Passat 3B AVF
It is very confusing. I had my injectors reconditioned and cleaned by a bosch authorised garage and they told me to lash the injectors I must turn back 270degrees. Here they say 180 degrees. Did they say 270 because they spray heavier atomised diesel? I times the injectors at 180 degrees and result is no power until 2800revs and lots of vibration until the engine boosts. Dmf is new and all vacuum pipes are new. Turbo is perfect also. I guess it is all about the injector/Rocker arm clearance. 180, 225 or 270 degrees?? I have a 2.0ltr tdi 16v BKD 2006 model. Any help would be appreciated. Tyanu888@hotmail.com
Thanks.
Hi there. I am working as a mechanic in a indy shop, an to help a friend I changed the camshaft on his 2005 1,9 tdi AVF B3 Passat. This is a 130 hp engine, but after my work it feels like 75ish.., just like Tyanu888 cars above.
I set the injectors at 180 degrees like described,

When I am driving with VCDS all the values look normal,torsion value at 0, putting the pedal to the flor in 3.gear-turbo pressure over 2000, maf 8-900, injection time 35-40 m/s ,so the thing should be running fine, but not untill 2800 rpm it starts to pull.

Can a injector setting using the old 270 degrees help? Anything else?
 

PakProtector

Veteran Member
Joined
Jan 5, 2014
Location
AnnArbor, MI
TDI
Mk.4 and the Cummins-es
Now this has me a bit confused...

It makes sense that the injectors would be adjusted at maximum stroke( rockers pushing them down ), then backed off half a turn. Brought down to interference, and then backed off at maximum 'lift'.

How wide is the nose of that cam lobe? I can see the need for an indicator, as if you are not at the real max lift point then setting like it is will result in an interference.

I don't see how adjusting to interference on the base circle will result in anything but disaster when( IFF ) the engine gets rotated.
cheers,
Douglas
 

Mike_04GolfTDI

Top Post Dawg
Joined
Nov 19, 2003
Location
Richmond, BC, Canada
TDI
Mine: 2019 Golf R DSG, Wife's: 2015 Golf Comfortline TDI
Injector rocker lash adjustment doesn’t make much difference. As long as there’s enough clearance, it doesn’t really matter if there’s a bit too much (within reason). I’ve messed with that setting a little bit and it barely makes any difference that you would notice.

If the car is severely lacking power it’s probably not the injector adjustment unless it’s too tight and damaged the injectors.

It’s probably something else.

A torsion value of zero can mean that it’s too far out of range. I would try adjusting it until you can get a reading other than zero, like 0.5 for example, and then go from there trying to adjust it to zero.

When you were setting the torsion value if you found that you got to zero very easily then it’s probably wrong. It usually takes many adjustments to get it to zero once you can get it reading something within range.

Make a very tiny adjustment. If it still says zero after that then you’re way off.
 
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540ess

New member
Joined
Nov 10, 2019
Location
Norway
TDI
Passat 3B AVF
Thanks for help guys, I will check the car again this week, do the settings all over again
 

540ess

New member
Joined
Nov 10, 2019
Location
Norway
TDI
Passat 3B AVF
End of my story: the car got rear ended and written off before I got to look more at it..
But there are more 1,9 Pdi`s left with worn camshafts so more opportunities wil come :)
 
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