schaeffers 5w40 change?

mxmotorhead24

Member
Joined
Oct 10, 2020
Location
wi
TDI
bew



I know not another oil thread!!! I have searched up n down this forum n read every thread and have found frank o6 reccomended schaeffers in tdis but the last thread of reccomending that is in 2013... I have an old schaeffers jug next to a new and noticed differences.My question has schaeffers changed to the point its not great for a tdi anymore?
 

mxmotorhead24

Member
Joined
Oct 10, 2020
Location
wi
TDI
bew
Heavy duty oil specs are not comparable to light duty oil specs:

https://www.lubrizol.com/Lubricant-...-Oil-Additives/ACEA/Relative-Performance-Tool

Having said that if it meets CK-4 you should not have any issues in my view (similar to using for example Mobil Delvac 1). I have Franko6 cam also but I am well over the three year warranty.
its just interesting how it changed from cj4 to ck4 along with some ratings/approvals l. hopefully its still got the zinc and moly
 

Mrrogers1

Veteran Member
Joined
Jun 25, 2006
Location
Omaha NEEEBRASKA
TDI
2011 Golf TDI 6MT, 2015 Golf Sportwagen S TDI DSG
I know not another oil thread!!! I have searched up n down this forum n read every thread and have found frank o6 reccomended schaeffers in tdis but the last thread of reccomending that is in 2013... I have an old schaeffers jug next to a new and noticed differences.My question has schaeffers changed to the point its not great for a tdi anymore?
I switched a couple buddies to the 9000 based on Frank's recommendation when I did one of his full cam conversions. I also now run 8008 in all my MK6/MK7 TDI, I like the products am impressed by the performance (UOA's prove this) and being made in the USA right down the highway from me is kind of cool.

Anyways, I digress... When I checked their site, it "appears" that the newly formulated 9000 is better in many important ways and I'd be terribly surprised if Frank wouldn't be strongly recommending the new 9000 based on what the site shows *https://www.schaefferoil.com/full-synthetic-5w40.html.

Performance Benefits
  • Improved wear protection – 71% less wear than conventional 5W-40 CJ-4 oils.
  • High thermal and oxidative stability for greater resistance to viscosity thickening and the formation of deposits, sludge and varnish.
  • Strong soot-busting, deposit-dispersing capability – 46% greater soot handling than conventional 5W-40 CJ-4 oils.
  • Excellent shear stability for stay-in-grade performance throughout the oil drain interval.
  • Superior low volatility characteristics to control oil consumption.
  • Improved and optimized engine durability and reliability – especially for older model engines.
  • Excellent protection against oil aeration and foaming.
  • Excellent cold crank startability and low temperature pumpability.

There is also the Technical Data sheet and this looks to be the some VOA info you'd be looking for but you'd need a proper analysis to see if the old vs new has the same levels of zinc and moly. The new tech data talks about a "Micron Moly®" and "Penetro" additives and it was updated 04/2019. Maybe Bob the Oil guy has some info on the new formula but would be pretty neat to see what @Franko6 has to say on the subject. :)
 

mxmotorhead24

Member
Joined
Oct 10, 2020
Location
wi
TDI
bew
i actually contacted schaeffers on this subject- Their tech states the moly is still there with the added penetro and the zinc content is the same range as before. They claim the oil has been made better than it was before and more improvements. Hopefully i can send some oil in next change for a voa as im still curious to see.
 

Franko6

Vendor , w/Business number
Joined
May 7, 2005
Location
Sw Missouri
TDI
Jetta, 99, Silver`
I have been asked about the new oil, and quite honestly, my initial impression was, "If it ain't broke, don't fix it". But truthfully, the CK-4 oil is the latest/ greatest diesel oil standard for the diesel industry,. I really did have to read a lot of background subject matter. And I am in favor of the new cert. But I was also fine with the Schaeffer 9000 5-40 CJ-4, too.

Here is your reality check... They have been using the new formula for the last 2 years, but couldn't actually print it on the label until the certification was complete.

That may sound like putting the cart before the horse, but the largest improvement, in my opinion, is the increased soot saturation point.
That to me means that the oil's can survive longer intervals, because the single most common cause on oil analysis to change oil is soot saturation. Once the oil cannot absorb any more soot, it's time to change.

Understanding the mentality of the common TDI driver, it's actually somewhat of a stretch to get them to hold to a 10,000 mile oil change. If the customer actually were to use oil analysis to judge a proper oil change interval, I think many would simply freak out. I actually think a 12-15,000 interval is not unreasonable if considering the CJ-4 rating and now, the soot saturation point has been raised, I don't think it will make any difference, because the customer won't 'take the chance' that engine damage can happen. The big trucking companies always change oil based on oil analysis. They use the oil to its potential. Even I, myself, tend to stick to a 10,000 mile oil change, only because it's easy to see on the odometer. I don't have to make another log. And few people can do a Schaeffer's oil change cheaper that me!

So, The reason I've not been verbal is it really doesn't matter whether you got the older CJ-4 oil or you can find the bottle with the CK-4 rating. For the last two years, the new formula, with the same old label was in the bottle. Now that the certs have been approved, all new bottles will show the CK-4 rating. There appears to be no difference in pricing.

Btw: To give you an idea how this certification process works, it's a bit ugly. As an example, the transmission oil Schaeffer's has for a well-known Allison transmission, they couldn't even get to the table to talk, UNTIL... they made a 'little payment'... and that's the way it works... sometimes you have to 'grease the skids'. They finally got their approval after 5 years of attempts.

Another little game just about made Schaeffer's quit selling their oil in California. The size of the printing for the oil weight was not to California Standard. Schaeffer's was subject to a fine for not knowing that. I'm not sure if the fine got waived, but the new bottles have the larger print. It's that kind of ignorant stuff big business has to put up with..

If you want to play with the big boys, you have to play the game. It's big money in a lucrative market.
 

CleverUserName

Veteran Member
Joined
Oct 25, 2014
Location
NorCal
TDI
'03 Golf 5MT Malone Stage 2
All the major oil manufacturers claimed a reduction in wear with their new Synthetic CK-4 formulas EXCEPT Mobil Delvac ESP. I believe the new D1 is actually a downgraded product made with cheaper base oils and inferior to the CJ-4 version.

The claims by Shaeffer are misleading as well. A synthetic oil will always have lower wear and better soot control than “conventional 5w40 CJ-4 oils”. What conventional 5w40 are they comparing it too?


  • Improved and optimized engine durability and reliability – especially for older model engines.
W.T.F. s this ^^^ ?

In all the UOAs I’ve seen in light duty diesels using the CJ-4 and CK-4 formulas, the limiting factor for oil change frequency is alkalinity depletion, not soot loading. When you approach 12k-15k miles the base number drops to the point where it would need to be changed anyway, while soot % would be low enough to not be a contributing factor.


I switched a couple buddies to the 9000 based on Frank's recommendation when I did one of his full cam conversions. I also now run 8008 in all my MK6/MK7 TDI, I like the products am impressed by the performance (UOA's prove this) and being made in the USA right down the highway from me is kind of cool.

Anyways, I digress... When I checked their site, it "appears" that the newly formulated 9000 is better in many important ways and I'd be terribly surprised if Frank wouldn't be strongly recommending the new 9000 based on what the site shows *https://www.schaefferoil.com/full-synthetic-5w40.html.

Performance Benefits
  • Improved wear protection – 71% less wear than conventional 5W-40 CJ-4 oils.
  • High thermal and oxidative stability for greater resistance to viscosity thickening and the formation of deposits, sludge and varnish.
  • Strong soot-busting, deposit-dispersing capability – 46% greater soot handling than conventional 5W-40 CJ-4 oils.
  • Excellent shear stability for stay-in-grade performance throughout the oil drain interval.
  • Superior low volatility characteristics to control oil consumption.
  • Improved and optimized engine durability and reliability – especially for older model engines.
  • Excellent protection against oil aeration and foaming.
  • Excellent cold crank startability and low temperature pumpability.

There is also the Technical Data sheet and this looks to be the some VOA info you'd be looking for but you'd need a proper analysis to see if the old vs new has the same levels of zinc and moly. The new tech data talks about a "Micron Moly®" and "Penetro" additives and it was updated 04/2019. Maybe Bob the Oil guy has some info on the new formula but would be pretty neat to see what @Franko6 has to say on the subject. :)
 

oilhammer

Certified Volkswagen Nut & Vendor
Joined
Dec 11, 2001
Location
outside St Louis (where it's safe)
TDI
There are just too many to list....
The "recommended for" and "meets AND/OR exceeds" phrases are the ones I like, LOL.

What I find somewhat interesting is that I am a native St. Louisan.... born and raised, and while I wisely moved to the outlying rural area to hang my hat, I still work in the suburbs of the area. I know this area very well. And I had never even heard of this company until a few years ago when Frank had mentioned them to me. Curious.

And "Penetro" sounds like a pornographic super hero name, doesn't it? :D

I have no experience with this product, but I do know that it is an easier (and safer) bet to be able to show a customer the specification in their car's technical manual (and in some cases, the tag under the hood) and show them the same thing on the lubricant container so there is no question. It limits any liability, too. FWIW, the MB 229.51 spec seems to be the toughest to meet. Meet. Not "exceed". Exceed is misleading, and is lawyer-speak for "not meeting".
 
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