Random loss of power, not limp mode?

Mdub707

Veteran Member
Joined
Sep 5, 2012
Location
Richfield Springs NY
TDI
2002 Jetta TDI
Ok so I've been driving my newly acquired 2002 jetta TDI. Occasionally when going up a long hill and I get into the throttle for any amount of time (usually has to be 5 seconds straight or more), the car will suddenly lose power. Being new to the VW scene, I thought it was "limp mode" that I've heard my other TDI buddies talk about. However, after consulting with a good friend who is a VW fanatic, he's telling me this isn't really "limp mode". The MIL/CEL does not come on at all, and I don't need to cycle the key to get it to reset back to normal power. It is a sudden loss of power, quite substantial. To the point where it wouldn't even accelerate in 3rd gear going up the hill. Usually I crest the hill and continue to cruise and the next time I really need to get on the throttle again, power is restored. I am going to try and hook up my scanner (sorry, not VAGCOM unfortunately) and see if I can capture a pending code or something when it's happening. I can pretty much do it on demand if the hill is big enough and all that's needed is a heavy right foot.

Everything I try searching is either actual limp mode cases, or a few cases that were similar, but power didn't come back and they found a loose intercooler tube etc...

Car only has 115k miles on it currently. No codes, no CEL/MIL.

Thanks.
 

Autobahn Jon

Member
Joined
Aug 22, 2012
Location
Colorado Springs
TDI
2004 2.0 Passat
I'm having about the same problem with my 04 Passat. I see under the "How to" thread that it could be the anti-shudder valve sticking which is located by the egr valve and both are prone to clogging up. Hope that helps.
 

Mdub707

Veteran Member
Joined
Sep 5, 2012
Location
Richfield Springs NY
TDI
2002 Jetta TDI
Good to know Jon. I'm sure the car has never had the EGR valve cleaned. I have the EGR delete kit sitting in the back seat, I hope to do that and the intake manifold cleaning very soon, so I will add that to my list of stuff to check. Let me know if you end up finding out anything else of if the anti-shudder valve is the culprit!
 

jettawreck

Top Post Dawg
Joined
Aug 2, 2004
Location
Northern Minnesota-55744
TDI
2001 Jetta and 2003 Jetta
When I've had true limp mode occur, its never thrown the CEL either. Sometimes there are codes that don't trigger the CEL, but I have not had any codes present after a "limp mode" event. Just cycled the ignition OFF/ON and back to normal.
Others have had different results with that issue, as the causes can be one (or more) of several. Although I've never known of the anti-shudder valve causing a real limp mode.
 
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KLXD

Top Post Dawg
Joined
Aug 22, 2009
Location
Lompoc, CA
TDI
'98, '2 Jettas
Could be the fuel filter or other restriction in the fuel system.

On the ALH the ASV is open before you ever turn the key to start it and never moves until you tun the key to off. Very unlikely to be your problem.

You're on the right track about logging data but you need to get VCDS.
 

Mad_Dasher

Veteran Member
Joined
Jan 10, 2005
Location
Indianapolis
TDI
2002 silver Jetta
Your vacuum lines could be old and collapsing to the actuator when you hit the pedal. Once you top the hill and release the accelerator, the lines open back up. Have you checked Canadian Grizzle's how to?
 

FranticFrank

Member
Joined
Aug 29, 2002
Location
Des Moines, Iowa
TDI
00 beetle tdi
Ours displayed those same symptoms, although a restart was required to regain normal engine ops. I could duplicate symptom at will. It was over boost due to incorrectly adjusted turbo actuating rod. Spend the money for VCDS and this repair alone will pay you back in spades.
 

SCM.com

Veteran Member
Joined
Aug 3, 2007
Location
Western Canada
TDI
Mr. Guetta - 2014 Jetta TDI Trimline +
Ok so I've been driving my newly acquired 2002 jetta TDI. Occasionally when going up a long hill and I get into the throttle for any amount of time (usually has to be 5 seconds straight or more), the car will suddenly lose power. Being new to the VW scene, I thought it was "limp mode" that I've heard my other TDI buddies talk about. However, after consulting with a good friend who is a VW fanatic, he's telling me this isn't really "limp mode". The MIL/CEL does not come on at all, and I don't need to cycle the key to get it to reset back to normal power. It is a sudden loss of power, quite substantial. To the point where it wouldn't even accelerate in 3rd gear going up the hill. Usually I crest the hill and continue to cruise and the next time I really need to get on the throttle again, power is restored. I am going to try and hook up my scanner (sorry, not VAGCOM unfortunately) and see if I can capture a pending code or something when it's happening. I can pretty much do it on demand if the hill is big enough and all that's needed is a heavy right foot.

Everything I try searching is either actual limp mode cases, or a few cases that were similar, but power didn't come back and they found a loose intercooler tube etc...

Car only has 115k miles on it currently. No codes, no CEL/MIL.

Thanks.
Hi Mdub707,

If you hit limp mode, you'll know right away, sometimes it'll jolt the car, and it will usually throw a CEL.

I'd definitely look in your intake first, are you getting any smoke when the car loses power? In general, black smoke means not enough air/too much fuel, blue/grey smoke means a clogged fuel system/burning oil and white smoke is a coolant problem or just a cold car. Your stock exhaust scrubber could be plugged too. I even found at least 5lbs of soot inside my stock muffler!@!

The EGR delete will help only if your upper intake is clean, (culvert into straw theory). Also, do you use any diesel treatment when you fill up?

I had the exact same problem when I first bought my car, and as a noob (ha ha) I thought I had bought a lemon. When I opened up the EGR/intake, I had about a quarter-sized hole for the air to move through!! My muffler and scrubber were both deleted.

This is also a great starting point...thanks to Member Canadian_Grizzly! http://forums.tdiclub.com/showthread.php?t=179589

Good luck,

-M.
 
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Mdub707

Veteran Member
Joined
Sep 5, 2012
Location
Richfield Springs NY
TDI
2002 Jetta TDI
Your vacuum lines could be old and collapsing to the actuator when you hit the pedal. Once you top the hill and release the accelerator, the lines open back up. Have you checked Canadian Grizzle's how to?
Ordered new vacuum lines already, will try that, but I don't see how they're collapsing. I have full power out of the car for a solid 15-20 seconds. I can literally hold the car wide open for a while, but getting towards the top of the hill it will all of a sudden lose a substantial amount of power and continues in low power until I crest the hill and start cruising again. I would think if the lines were collapsing they would do so as soon as I rolled into the throttle and boost came up. I don't know, the hoses are cheap enough I'm going to replace them all anyways, they're in the trunk right now.

When I've had true limp mode occur, its never thrown the CEL either. Sometimes there are codes that don't trigger the CEL, but I have not had any codes present after a "limp mode" event. Just cycled the ignition OFF/ON and back to normal.
Others have had different results with that issue, as the causes can be one (or more) of several. Although I've never known of the anti-shudder valve causing a real limp mode.
I could see it not triggering the CEL I guess, but every thing else I read says the car needs to have the key cycled to get power back, and that's not the case for me.

Have you ever heard of limp mode resetting without the key being cycled?
Exactly, I sure haven't, but I haven't been a TDI member for a long time either.

Ours displayed those same symptoms, although a restart was required to regain normal engine ops. I could duplicate symptom at will. It was over boost due to incorrectly adjusted turbo actuating rod. Spend the money for VCDS and this repair alone will pay you back in spades.
That's what I don't get, no restart required.

Hi Mdub707,

If you hit limp mode, you'll know right away, sometimes it'll jolt the car, and it will usually throw a CEL.

I'd definitely look in your intake first, are you getting any smoke when the car loses power? In general, black smoke means not enough air/too much fuel, blue/grey smoke means a clogged fuel system/burning oil and white smoke is a coolant problem or just a cold car. Your stock exhaust scrubber could be plugged too. I even found at least 5lbs of soot inside my stock muffler!@!

The EGR delete will help only if your upper intake is clean, (culvert into straw theory). Also, do you use any diesel treatment when you fill up?

I had the exact same problem when I first bought my car, and as a noob (ha ha) I thought I had bought a lemon. When I opened up the EGR/intake, I had about a quarter-sized hole for the air to move through!! My muffler and scrubber were both deleted.

This is also a great starting point...thanks to Member Canadian_Grizzly! http://forums.tdiclub.com/showthread.php?t=179589

Good luck,

-M.
I'm new to TDI's, but not new to diesels, coming from the truck side of things. No smoke at all, the car runs great and has full power for a while going up the hill. I need a really long hill to get these symptoms to show. I'm talking hills that are 1/2mile to 1 mile long. I can go at it and get almost to the top of the hill before it loses power, it's really odd. Definitely seems like it's cutting fuel to me. If it was an air issue and the turbo was snuffing out, I would expect the black smoke to start pouring, but I get nothing. To me that means fuel is cut. It's weird, it will have full power and pull the hill pretty good (considering it's only 90hp) and then all of a sudden a power loss and rpm's start dropping. So much power loss actually, it wont even accelerate up hill in 3rd gear, WOT and it was losing speed in 3rd.

I'm going to do the EGR delete, but I don't think that's the issue at hand here. I could be wrong though, but it seems like that would cause low power all the time, not just WOT up long hills?

I did read the write up about fixing limp mode, thus why I ordered the vacuum lines, figured it was an easy place to start. I will also check the MAF sensor too and probably just clean it too, I do have some MAF cleaner kicking around somewhere.

Oh, and as for getting the VAGCOM stuff... I know, I know. I just bought some software for my powerstroke not too long ago for the same price. Just hate spending more money right away haha.

Thanks for the input so far guys.
 
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Mdub707

Veteran Member
Joined
Sep 5, 2012
Location
Richfield Springs NY
TDI
2002 Jetta TDI
Ok guys, I tried this again... it does in fact appear that power is NOT restored like you guys suggested, until I cycle the key. I guess I'm just having a hard time telling the difference between 60 whp and 50 whp hahaha. It's a little different than driving my usual 430rwhp powerstroke.

However, I'm still not getting any check engine light. I will start going through the limp mode threads now (now that I've discovered it is more normal than I thought, ie power isn't coming back like everyone said). I'll keep you guys updated if I find anything.

I did pull the tube coming off the EGR valve, definitely some gunk in there, but not "clogged" by any means. No where near what I've seen others look like.
 

Mdub707

Veteran Member
Joined
Sep 5, 2012
Location
Richfield Springs NY
TDI
2002 Jetta TDI
Finally got ya!!!

Had a big long hill that is 30mph at the bottom and turns to 55mph just as the hill starts, take off in 3rd about 3/4 throttle, car pulls good and then boom... limp mode. But no CEL. So I shut it down, start it again and do it again, this time in 4th, got it to limp again, shut it down, restart, keep going... (still going up the hill) finally the 3rd time I got the car to limp again on the hill the CEL came on!!! NICE. Got home, pulled the codes and found a P0234, turbo under/over boost condition. Good, at least I have a place to start looking now. I am going to start by replacing all of the vacuum lines and go from there. I already have all new lines sitting here anyways so might as well get it done! Researching the P0234 now, lots of good info on it. I'll keep you guys posted.
 

KLXD

Top Post Dawg
Joined
Aug 22, 2009
Location
Lompoc, CA
TDI
'98, '2 Jettas
Pull of the intake hose and check the manifold for plugging as was suggested above.
 

rodanr77

Active member
Joined
Nov 10, 2011
Location
Vancouver
TDI
2003 JETTA TDI
Any update... I have same issue... New vacuum, cleaned intake, new fuel filter
... No cat.... No muffler.... New air filter....
 

GTRAMSAY

Well-known member
Joined
Dec 18, 2009
Location
Marlborough Connecticut
TDI
new beetle TDI 03 (Sold) and Jetta TDI 05-5
Finally got ya!!!

Had a big long hill that is 30mph at the bottom and turns to 55mph just as the hill starts, take off in 3rd about 3/4 throttle, car pulls good and then boom... limp mode. But no CEL. So I shut it down, start it again and do it again, this time in 4th, got it to limp again, shut it down, restart, keep going... (still going up the hill) finally the 3rd time I got the car to limp again on the hill the CEL came on!!! NICE. Got home, pulled the codes and found a P0234, turbo under/over boost condition. Good, at least I have a place to start looking now. I am going to start by replacing all of the vacuum lines and go from there. I already have all new lines sitting here anyways so might as well get it done! Researching the P0234 now, lots of good info on it.


I'll keep you guys posted.
We are waiting did you find the PROBLEM?
 

rodanr77

Active member
Joined
Nov 10, 2011
Location
Vancouver
TDI
2003 JETTA TDI
Hi all,

Seeing as I had a similar issue... I have gone to discover that even with good vacuum, I can still on occasion push my turbo actuator rod further. So my next step is chemically cleaning the turbo...

I'm quiet busy so this maybe a ways off... But coming.

Also please remember my issues is very infrequent, and I have NOT been able to reproduce it the last 3-4 days...

EDIT... SORRY ONE MORE VERY IMPORTANT THING... i changed ALL the clamps on the intake (POST TURBO, so pressure side) to SCREW TYPE clamps. i did notice some weeping of oil when i took the various pieces apart from the intake, and since then have not had P0234 code, or limp made... and its been 3 days... my boost shoots to MAX 22psi... then drops to normal 13-15 psi steady, and then drops again near MAX RPM which is about 4400rpm.

hope this helps...
 
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watchingcrow

Active member
Joined
Sep 19, 2016
Location
San Francisco CA
TDI
2003 VW Jetta
2003 seeming limp mode

Hi,
I have been dealing with this for some time. I had the classic limp mode 0234 code, cleaned MAF and changed air filter (It was filthy DUH!) went out to my closest BIG hill that in the past ALWAYS triggered the limp. No Problem was convinced i was a genius and saved myself loads of money. Then, took friend to airport (SFO) and on the way back, after 40 minutes of freeway driving, got what seemed like a limp but not nearly as significant as before. I did not key off (wife HATES when i do that on the freeway) got home and checked with OBDII and got a p0108, (MAP is WAY difficult to get to, hahaha, so didn't check it) spent days looking for sh_t. Went to airport again, same problem except NO CODE this time. Thinking it is my fuel filter and so new filter and diesel purge is what i was thinking. Going to run it hard and check code as soon as i get the problem rather than wait till i get home.
This is pissing me off. To make me madder, some years ago i drove to LA and going up the Grapevine i got a serious problem and smoke and took it to the Dealer and $1500 later, new Turbo and not problem (for a couple of years and then - classic limp mode). Any thoughts?
 

BobnOH

not-a-mechanic
Joined
May 29, 2004
Location
central Ohio
TDI
New Beetle 2003 manual
Lots of things, try the low power/limp mode thread (more or less interchangeable terms) or find some where they found solutions. If all the components check out, go over your wiring. Happened to me, took a year to track down, small nick in wire from IP to ECU, looked factory.
 

PrintSmith

Well-known member
Joined
Dec 28, 2005
Location
Bailey, CO
TDI
2003 Jetta TDI - RIP June 2016 - 470,000 on clock. 2004 Jetta TDI Sport new to me June 2016
I would suspect that the turbo actuator is leaking or sticky vanes in the turbo itself resulting in an over boost state and triggering the limp mode.
 

POWERSTROKE

Top Post Dawg
Joined
Jul 17, 2000
Location
Staten Island (The Dump)
TDI
2002 Golf
Vacuum issue? I would check the vacuum lines and test the actuator. I was getting loss of power only in the hills upstate ny, never around town. Would happen randomly, never tripped a code until a month ago. Had bad vacuum lines and my vacuum canister was rotted badly. I honestly don’t know how it was running as good as it was. Runs like a champ now.
 
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