Raising Car for Off-Road Crawling or Rally

[Aquaticmind]

This brings up a different question. What adapters are made for the !.9L TDI to fit to other transmission/ transaxles?

 

[xiledsavior]

I hate to be with the crowd of nay sayers, and I'll gladly admit I'm wrong if/when you prove me wrong, but there's a right tool for the job of off-roading, and sadly a mk4 isn't it. If you're looking for milage and offroadability, many people have dropped a Cummins 4bt into jeeps where they then get ~30-35 mpg highway. The added benifit is that the 4bt is essentially a 6 cylinder with the front two cylinders cut off, so it runs on a far tougher drivetrain than an avg 4 cyl diesel. This also gives the jeep more torque, and is in general easier to mod for more peformance. It's well documented over at www.jeepforums.com and www.4btswaps.com. otherwise, going for an older VW would prob turn out better.

 

[LRTDI]

I've been off roading in a LR hence that part of my name, for over 15 years. however I am totally unfamiliar with the parts that you are talking about for the suspension lift.

Tire/wheelarch clearance: Try stuffing a tire into the wheelarch and then you'll see how quickly the space disappears.

You'll have to lengthen the brake lines/abs sensor lines, possibly modify the steering and suspension mounts.

However many of your questions may be answered by tracking down more specs on this VW http://carscoop.blogspot.com/2009/05/ebay-find-1991-volkswagen-golf-country.html

Winch. I would probably want to suggest, if you really think this is necessary that you have a rear class III custom fabbed and secure a removeable winch inside the vehicle until needed. A 6k winch would be plenty. Then winch yourself backwards.

 

[manual_tranny]

The best bet in my opinion (though I realize your trying to start with a MK4 car)...

Would be to make a B4V Passat Wagon TDI Synchro...
then lift it a couple inches and run some aggressive tires.

I think that would be the best of almost all worlds.

Well, I only live in this world with the car I have, so I'm gonna make due. I have to tell every one of you that I really appreciate your opinions and advice, in the next 2 years I plan on having a lot of these modifications done.

I have a new question that probably deserves to be put into the "conversions" topic. A friend of mine is driving a FWD Audi TT... and his 1.8 T engine is the same as VW...

IS MY ENGINE COMPATABLE WITH AWD TT??????

I think no matter what I do, I would be better off scrapping my body and parting out my car, while keeping my engine and necessary parts to have an AWD car that is capable of being lifted and has a 200hp TDi engine in it and gets 45mpg. NO?

 

[Pat Dolan]

Well, I only live in this world with the car I have, so I'm gonna make due. I have to tell every one of you that I really appreciate your opinions and advice, in the next 2 years I plan on having a lot of these modifications done.

I have a new question that probably deserves to be put into the "conversions" topic. A friend of mine is driving a FWD Audi TT... and his 1.8 T engine is the same as VW...

IS MY ENGINE COMPATABLE WITH AWD TT??????

I think no matter what I do, I would be better off scrapping my body and parting out my car, while keeping my engine and necessary parts to have an AWD car that is capable of being lifted and has a 200hp TDi engine in it and gets 45mpg. NO?

If you stick with the first gen TTQ, it is nearly a bolt in deal. You will need some ECU help, though, since I am pretty sure it must talk to the rear diff, but if you go stand alone Haldex controller (again, easily available) the rest of the car looks, to your ECU, just like what it is: an A4 series New Beetle. You would lose EDL in the rear (but I think the aftermarket controllers CAN keep that). Again, go Wavetrac up front, Haldex/EDL rear and you have a REAL 4WD system.

You would have to check out the rallye guys to know how far and how to go about lifting an A4 4 motion, but I am sure it has been done a thousand times.

 

[F250_JR]

Well, I only live in this world with the car I have, so I'm gonna make due. I have to tell every one of you that I really appreciate your opinions and advice, in the next 2 years I plan on having a lot of these modifications done.

I have a new question that probably deserves to be put into the "conversions" topic. A friend of mine is driving a FWD Audi TT... and his 1.8 T engine is the same as VW...

IS MY ENGINE COMPATABLE WITH AWD TT??????

I think no matter what I do, I would be better off scrapping my body and parting out my car, while keeping my engine and necessary parts to have an AWD car that is capable of being lifted and has a 200hp TDi engine in it and gets 45mpg. NO?

So you are now saying you might keep your current engine and tranny to swap into a 4Motion Audi?

Does anybody know what type of chassis/frame technology Audi uses? Is it just another unibody, or is it an actual frame?

 

[manual_tranny]

realistically

Sorry, I was mostly dreaming when I said I might go to the awd TT, (not anytime soon, anyway). I'm not made of $$ though I dream like I am. I've decided what I'm going to do for this winter, and depending on how it all works out I may keep the project going.

Next week I'll be buying:

1. 2" lift from Metalnerd
2. VR6 Front springs found used on Craigslist
3. 100K Timing belt upgrade from dieselgeek
4. Timing belt tools from dieselgeek
5. 14x6 to 14x7.5 steel or alloy wheels (still looking for used)
6. General grabber 27x8.5 r14 $88 ea.
http://www.tirerack.com/tires/TireSearchResults.jsp?width=27X&ratio=8.5&diameter=14&x=19&y=14

I am postponing skidplate, power mods, european jetta wagon tow shocks, winch/lights/external spare mounts, wavetrac diff, and 6-speed. I'll start tackling those mods in April. For now, I realize that the timing belt needs to come first, followed by the most effective height raise per $$. I am planning on eventually taking out the spacers and having a suspension that travels further.

Thanks for the help, I'll keep y'all posted ASAP!

 

[rustwagen]

FWIW,
I've been running the metalnerd 2" lift/vr6 front spring/TT LCA bushings combo with the General Grabber at2 205/75/15 both on and off road for the past 2.5 years. The suspension is MUCH stiffer - closer to the feel of a TT. It does fine on the fire road/forest road trails out here in NM. The stiff suspension and rebound will effectively limit your speed offroad. I usually slow to a speed that will limit the brain rattle . If you're going to carry gear you'll need to find some rear wagon springs. The TDI and VR6 rear springs (the same, I believe) will not help with weight.

-Jason
2000 Baja Jetta

-And I still can get 50 mpg @ 65 on the freeway.

 

[manual_tranny]

I hate to be with the crowd of nay sayers, and I'll gladly admit I'm wrong if/when you prove me wrong, but there's a right tool for the job of off-roading, and sadly a mk4 isn't it. If you're looking for milage and offroadability, many people have dropped a Cummins 4bt into jeeps where they then get ~30-35 mpg highway. The added benifit is that the 4bt is essentially a 6 cylinder with the front two cylinders cut off, so it runs on a far tougher drivetrain than an avg 4 cyl diesel. This also gives the jeep more torque, and is in general easier to mod for more peformance. It's well documented over at www.jeepforums.com and www.4btswaps.com. otherwise, going for an older VW would prob turn out better.

I know I sound like an idiot asking how to do these mods. I'm not, really... I do know that a Jeep is always going to be better at off-road than MKIV.

I may sound really crazy, but 30-35mpg isn't close enough to 40-50 in my opinion. If anything, I'd rather have a 1.6TDI in a raised fwd chassis than the Cummins.

All I really want to be able to do is make it up and down some logging roads, and not get stuck in 8" snow. I used to have a fwd mk2 that was amazing in the snow even with crappy clearance... I believe my mk4 will be adequate for the kind of occational cautious adventuring I want to do.

If I get really desperate to do serious off-roading, I'll just put my dual-sport Chinese motorbike on a trailer and tow it.

 

[manual_tranny]

FWIW,
I've been running the metalnerd 2" lift/vr6 front spring/TT LCA bushings combo with the General Grabber at2 205/75/15 both on and off road for the past 2.5 years. The suspension is MUCH stiffer - closer to the feel of a TT. It does fine on the fire road/forest road trails out here in NM. The stiff suspension and rebound will effectively limit your speed offroad. I usually slow to a speed that will limit the brain rattle . If you're going to carry gear you'll need to find some rear wagon springs. The TDI and VR6 rear springs (the same, I believe) will not help with weight.

-Jason
2000 Baja Jetta

-And I still can get 50 mpg @ 65 on the freeway.

YES!! AWESOME!!! That was my first tire choice actually, until I found that I could get the AT Grabber in the 14" wheel size and have even more tire. The fact you can still get 50mpg with this combination just MADE MY DAY!!!!!

I hope I can find a way to keep the clearance up and get my suspension a little softer for off-road, especially to "fix" the brain-rattle problem you describe. =)

Any pictures of your lifted Jetta with these tires? Please!? ;-)

 

[shizzler]

Will a 14" wheel clear Mk4 brakes?? I was under the impression that they didn't.

 

[lekolite]

Don't skip the skid plate. That needs to be done first. I love what you're going for and would hate to see you lose your oilpan to a rock, or possum on the road.

 

[rustwagen]

YES!! AWESOME!!! That was my first tire choice actually, until I found that I could get the AT Grabber in the 14" wheel size and have even more tire. The fact you can still get 50mpg with this combination just MADE MY DAY!!!!!

I hope I can find a way to keep the clearance up and get my suspension a little softer for off-road, especially to "fix" the brain-rattle problem you describe. =)

Any pictures of your lifted Jetta with these tires? Please!? ;-)

Here's one with my craptacular photo skills:

Unfortunately, the metalnerd kit achieves lift by compressing the springs. Compressed springs = harsh ride. To keep a nice ride would require progressive rate coilovers ($$$) or different/longer struts (???), I'm thinking. Or the Audi Allroad solution - 4 airbag struts and spacers between the body and subframes.

-Jason
2000 Baja Jetta

 

[Aquaticmind]

Don't skip the skid plate.

2x. This is the first thing you should buy. Seriously the other things you can plan for, a busted oil pan is much harder to cope with.

Put the skid plate at the top of the list, plus it will help you get the lift correct as it will cause the front to drop a bit b/c of the weight.

 

[darkhorse]

Unfortunately, the metalnerd kit achieves lift by compressing the springs. Compressed springs = harsh ride.
2000 Baja Jetta[/quote]

Jason, I love the look of you raised car. I'd like a little more ground clearance too. I thought the Metalnard kit would fill the bill for reasonable $$'s but I don't like the idea of the harsh ride. I'll probably go with springs alone. Are your vr6 springs taller than the Jetta wagon springs? TDI parts says the front are good for an inch , the rear 2.

 

[xiledsavior]

I know I sound like an idiot asking how to do these mods. I'm not, really... I do know that a Jeep is always going to be better at off-road than MKIV.

I may sound really crazy, but 30-35mpg isn't close enough to 40-50 in my opinion. If anything, I'd rather have a 1.6TDI in a raised fwd chassis than the Cummins.

All I really want to be able to do is make it up and down some logging roads, and not get stuck in 8" snow. I used to have a fwd mk2 that was amazing in the snow even with crappy clearance... I believe my mk4 will be adequate for the kind of occational cautious adventuring I want to do.

If I get really desperate to do serious off-roading, I'll just put my dual-sport Chinese motorbike on a trailer and tow it.

I see what you're saying, I guess I didn't read very closely originally, if you're just running up little logging roads and doing very light off-roading, I imagine the mk4 would work out fine. I do want to agree with every single person who's bumped the skid plate, armor will keep you running far longer then the highest lift you can find.

 

[rustwagen]

Jason, I love the look of you raised car. I'd like a little more ground clearance too. I thought the Metalnard kit would fill the bill for reasonable $$'s but I don't like the idea of the harsh ride. I'll probably go with springs alone. Are your vr6 springs taller than the Jetta wagon springs? TDI parts says the front are good for an inch , the rear 2.

The used VR6 springs I got did lift the front about an inch, but the rear springs were the same as my TDI springs (same paint marks). I'm not sure if any of the rear springs will lift the car. I lifted my wife's Jetta an inch in the rear just using a metalnerd-type spacer under the spring. Maybe the VR6 front springs and an inch spacer in the rear would work for you.

The ride is harsh mainly on very bumpy roads or over speed bumps. Otherwise it's great on pavement - like a TT.

-Jason
2000 Baja Jetta

 

[coalminer16]

Couple things. Get the Skid plate. Unless you want to be stranded 30miles away on a logging road. I don't care how much money you have or don't have. Get the skid plate. Don't get the lift till you get the skid plate so you have the money for the skid plate. The lift will help you from getting stuck in mud. The plate will help with getting stuck with a $6K engine bill to replace and getting stranded. Do you know how weak cast aluminum is.

Next thing, let me explain the Metalnerd kit to those that done have it. The rear does NOT compress the springs. It has a puck that goes under the rear spring and an bracket to raise the mounting point of the shock as well. The front is a compressed spring in terms of when all the weight is off the car it is compressed. Hard to explain really. The lifting part goes between the spring and the top of the shock mount. So it more or less takes the travel out of the shock but the spring is still under normal compression. It's limits are just limited by the shock (it will max the shock length wise easier but not compressing it to the max). I used the same shocks before as after (keeped the used shocks) and it road EXACTLY the same. Most people say it rides rough for two reasons. First is they changed the shocks which are what makes the ride rougher from not letting the spring compress fast enough for the bump (or lets the spring compress to easily and it comes off as very soft on corners then). The other thing is if they go over bumps fast enough the shocks can max there length out easier and do so over certain conditions. Again most of the time it is the shocks that causes the harsh ride after the lift and not the lift itself. The VR6 springs and wagon rears will make it a rougher ride then the lift as it will take more weight in the car to create the spring to act as designed and compress for that weight of car. Clear as mud? Hard to explain and put down in writing. I did study some on springs and shocks in some of my engineering classes.

If nothing is read other then one thing from my post it is this. GET A SKID PLATE.

 

[darkhorse]

TDI parts says the Jetta wagon springs lift the rear 2". They don't carry vr6 springs. They cost a lot more than the Metalnerd spacers but I bet they ride better. I think I'll go with springs first & add the spacers if I think I need more. I don't want to destroy the sporty highway handling.

 

[darkhorse]

I get your point coalminer. I may have to rethink my priorities. BTW, I do have a skid plate.

 

[lekolite]

Darkhorse- the skidplate comments are directed at the original poster.

 

[darkhorse]

I know. That was just my way of agreeing with their primary importance.

 

[Aquaticmind]

It should be said that you don't have to VR6 springs, if you have a manual tranny the 2blue/2white springs from an auto wagen will give you about 1" lift.

 

[manual_tranny]

Will a 14" wheel clear Mk4 brakes?? I was under the impression that they didn't.

I will be looking into this immediately.

 

[TDICADDGUY]

Will a 14" wheel clear Mk4 brakes?? I was under the impression that they didn't.

I doubt it. It is fairly close tolerances even on 15" wheels.

To the statement that the metalnerd 2" lift increases ride harshness, I disagree. It is the VR6 springs that firms up the ride. When used with stock springs, the 2" lift does not compress the springs anymore than what the weight of the car does.

In my mind it is like this: If you strap springs onto your shoes, your weight compresses them by a certain amount. Stick a 2x4 in between the spring and your shoe, you're standing 2" taller but the springs are still compressed the same amount.

Even with the lift and VR6 springs, I feel that the ride is firm but still compliant and comfortable.

 

[manual_tranny]

Gorsch

Couple things. Get the Skid plate. Unless you want to be stranded 30miles away on a logging road. I don't care how much money you have or don't have. Get the skid plate. Don't get the lift till you get the skid plate so you have the money for the skid plate. The lift will help you from getting stuck in mud. The plate will help with getting stuck with a $6K engine bill to replace and getting stranded. Do you know how weak cast aluminum is.

I said I was planning on getting a skid plate in April. I don't know why you're so worried about my car between now and April while I don't have one.

Just because I lift my car it doesn't mean I will start driving it like an idiot. I believe that having taken it up logging roads already with no ill-effects, I ought to be able to drive around my paved town for a couple months raised without a skid plate. Unless you really believe that after installing a lift kit I might go crazy and start trying to hop curbs and dive into snow drifts... I think maybe you over-reacted. Heck, it's so cold out I don't even want to go driving.

 

[darkhorse]

I think maybe you over-reacted. Heck, it's so cold out I don't even want to go driving.

I hear you about the cold! I'm sure some have over reacted but don't take it personally. They haven't been riding with you. I appreciate the thread as I'd like a little more clearance too. Still not sure what I'll do.

 

[coalminer16]

Well said on the lifting part TDICADDGUY. As for the skid plate. Don't take me wrong. I doubt anyone wants to ruin there car. It is just that one time on the hyw that you are following someone and all of the sudden a board, road kill, ice chunk, rock, tire scrapp, etc is right in front of you and you can swerve because of traffic around you. My father thought the same thing on the skid plat. He will get it when it was convenient for him. He only drives on paved roads in MN and even went about 1.5 years with out a plate. Then he got one and a couple months latter he was thanking me. Again it is the unexpected that gets the oil pan. I have read in the 1 year I have been on this forum LOTS of horror stories on people without skid plates. A lot of venders on here will install for free (even if you don't buy from them, oil hammer does this and a few others) just because they believe it is that important. I can take a picture of my skid plate if you want and show you how scratched it is and I have the lift. The skid plate was my first thing and the lift was second months latter. Again don't take me wrong but I and many others don't want to see you stranded (even locally) because your pan just blew apart. On that note. I would love to see some of these mods for the logging trails as I would like some ideas for my local trails in the Big Horns MTS.

 

[lekolite]

The remarks about getting a skid plate have nothing whatsoever to do with your driving. There are countless stories on this board of people on the road hitting a chunk of ice or a small animal or a rock when they had no way to avoid it.

Edit: beaten to it.

 

[DCELL]

My heavy skid plate saved my ass a few weeks ago when a chunk of firewood fell out of a truck in front of me at 70mph. It was really loud and the plate got a little bent, but the car is fine. Just my $0.02.

I've wanted a lifted golf ever since I first read an article about them back in the early 90's. My golfs have always been utility vehicles for me, and in stock form, they have taken me places most cars shouldn't go. HOWEVER: to be a truly capable off road vehicle, it would require more money and time than I have! I keep a real 4x4 for anything truly off road.