Raising Car for Off-Road Crawling or Rally

[manual_tranny]

Thanks for checking guys, I finally found time to install the 2" lift and I've got some things to say about it. First thing first, I took the car to an auto-cross to see how badly handling was effected. I pulled a time within one second of a golf GTI 1.8T gasser at stock height. I was happy with that!

The height is great but I was under the impression that 2" would not totally destroy my fuel economy. Well, this is true under 55-60mph... but at 70mph+ my economy takes a pretty big hit.

I think a 1" lift with slightly larger outer diameter tires would have been sufficient for my needs. Air bags in the back would have given me the option to raise or lower the rear depending on load. The skid plate is surprisingly strong too.

I'd like to rally the thing but I'm also in need of a donor for my G3F car, so I'm looking at 2 years before the earliest I might try and get an actual rally car prepared.

 

[coalminer16]

My brother installed just airbags. He said they basically maintain the height and not add to it. It just prevents the load from sagging it down. They did 4 adults, 3 dogs, 3 chainsaws and all there weekend warrior gear for a cabin stay while cutting trees. Didn't sag at all (car top carrier Yakima Pro 21=21 cubic feet).

 

[rperks]

Bilstien HD compatible Lift

I figured this is good a place as any to document the home brewed 2" lift kit I ran on my 2000 Golf for almost 100,000 miles. At the time of fabrication I had recently installed new Bilstein HD shocks and struts in hopes and dreams of less suspension dive. The kicker was that the beta test lift kits at the time would not work with the HD system, so I made up my own kit.

The rear was fairly easy, I went with the H&R adustible rear perches.
H&R Rear Adjustible Perch by rperks1, on Flickr


H&R Rear Adjustible Perch by rperks1, on Flickr

I thought at the time that I would run these with a set of wagon springs and adjust them up and down when I had heavy camping loads, and the roof top tent on. After playing with it a bit I ended up runing the stock rear springs with the perches set at full lift.

The front presented the greatest engineering challenge. The HD struts have a thicker than normal shaft and would not work with the availble spacers on the market. I ended up using two factory spring perches with a section of 1/4" wall DOM tubing welded in between. The bottom perch was then milled out in the center to clear the HD shaft. The factory drain holes all are still corectly oriented and the assemble never collected water. I ran a 2blue/3white "sport" spring.

Front Bilstein HD compatible 2" Lift by rperks1, on Flickr

Front Bilstein HD compatible 2" Lift by rperks1, on Flickr

This setup worked great on and off the pavement. With 265 wide tires I still saw fuel economy in the 40mpg range at highway speeds. The ride and handling were firm but passible as would be expected with the HD / sport spring combo. This went fine even on the crappy SoCal highways until my wife was preagnant.

Enter stage 3 of my car where it now sits at factory height on Koni Reds. The fuel economy is about the same, the ride is smoother but controled, and I have to actually pay attention not to scape the bumper trim. Plus side is the wife and baby are happy.

Feel free to hit me with questions re. this setup if you are looking to make similar. Also, as this has been sitting on my work bench for 6 months now I am sending it off to the for sale pages (Sold - Thank you).

 

[manual_tranny]

Very cool! I like the adjustable perches, I didn't know they existed..

 

[Quanger]

I have airbags at the back of the golf with OEM springs and bilstein HD. I find that I have to let out quite a bit of air for it not to be too bouncy if i'm not towing.

For the fronts, I bought two sets of 10mm washers and bilstein HD that has yet to be installed.

 

[manual_tranny]

bleachedbora tried to convince me to do the spacers up front, and now that I've finally seen how the parts go together I think spacers are the best way to go. They're a lot cheaper and they do the same thing; also it's easy to choose the exact amount of lift.

 

[NoJoke]

I'm very interested in installing a height adjustable(in cabin) suspension and was looking at Firestone airbag systems. I have a B4 and understand that this is going to be a custom job(thanks Matt) what would be the best approach? Any other systems I should be looking at?

 

[NoJoke]

Found the solution...
http://www.mason-tech.com/airrideCW1.asp
Adjust the ride even on the fly

 

[LukeWilson]

You might want to send a PM to AlphaWerks, he has a TDI converted MK3 golf with swapped in syncro drive train. He said it rides 5" higher than a normal golf. I hope he doesn't mind me posting a picture of it:

 

[Scott02]

Oh man.... ^^^That looks amazing.

 

[JungleDeath]

bleachedbora tried to convince me to do the spacers up front, and ...

http://www.autotech.com/prod_susp_suspbush.htm

scroll down and look for the poly spacers. They come in 10mm lift and 19mm lift for the rear of any 99-06 A4 body. About $50. shipped.

I found my second set of vw oe 10mm spacers (by accident) in a pair of struts I purchased from a junk yard. However, Boraparts has em for @ $20. shipped.

So, about 70 bucks an inch. Then add your oversize tires. Maybe some Billy HD's up front for another half inch.

Probably will still need a front alignment, but it would be worth it.

 

[sweetjeep]

So do we have any updates?

 

[JDub8]

just a headsup: Avus wheels (stock 15") shoould be 17 pounds even. I weighed a bare rim myself and that was the result every time.

Though you probably want steel wheels over alloys.

 

[manual_tranny]

My brother installed just airbags. He said they basically maintain the height and not add to it. It just prevents the load from sagging it down. They did 4 adults, 3 dogs, 3 chainsaws and all there weekend warrior gear for a cabin stay while cutting trees. Didn't sag at all (car top carrier Yakima Pro 21=21 cubic feet).

I'm still trying to picture how they got all that into a Golf... holy crap man.

So do we have any updates?

OK yes, but nothing exciting. I'm spending a lot of my free time trying to keep the Golf in shape recently... I broke the left mirror off, the horn stopped working, and every piece of plastic that is typically broken is now broken. It's little stuff, but it seems to take up a lot of time tracking down good parts. I'd rather have junkyard parts than Chinese replacement auto parts. (c.r.a.p.) Last time I avoided Ebay I got scammed at full-price by a non-tdiclub retailer that sent me a headlight that is already fogging up less than a year later. The Chinese VW market is OUT OF CONTROL, and it's starting to get personal.

So, updates: I found a 2000 Jetta TDI for $3K here on the club. It came with extra gauges, OMI, mufflerectomy, and other goodies like a set of steel wheels. I can use this for my Smyth kit-car project this winter. I won't be cutting apart my Golf because it's got too much life left in it.

I sold my house and took my friends 2003 GTI (24V VR6) as part of the house trade. So... yeah... now I have THREE MK4 vee dubs. How did this happen, I keep asking myself...

The GTI would make a proper rally car. 2.8 liter 24V engine could be easily modified to put out more power than any 1.9 TDI could dream of. However, it's gasoline and fwd... and that combination makes me think I should repair a few minor things and sell it. The other option is to swap engines with my 4-Door golf and sell that as a gasser. The GTI is in nicer shape inside and out, all that is missing now is a good diesel engine.

As if I didn't have enough cars, I am finally getting a repaired '93 RX7 back from the shop in a week or two. I had plans to sell that to support the Smyth car conversion... but... it will have more than 450hp when I get it back. It might be difficult to let go; I've had it since I was 17 and it's only been running 2 of those 11 years.

PLEASE GIVE ME ADVICE! I am pulling my hair out trying to figure out what to keep and what to sell.

just a headsup: Avus wheels (stock 15") shoould be 17 pounds even. I weighed a bare rim myself and that was the result every time.

Though you probably want steel wheels over alloys.

On the bright side, I've got a set of steel and three sets of Avus now... I won't be heart-broken if the aluminum ones get broken while racing off-road. I'm just having a hard time finding and understanding race prep regulations... if I could only figure out which classes MK4 Golfs are eligible for and what style(s) of roll cages are suitable, I'd be prepping a car for real racing right now. Has anybody else tried to read through their insanely confusing rules? I guess SCCA Solo will be the bestI can do for now... and the RX7 is the ideal choice for dancing around the cones...

 

[loudspl]

I vote you keep the RX7.

Fix the GTI and turn it around for some $$ on the project

The rotary may be a PIA to maintain but nothing like > 450hp to play with!!

 

[coalminer16]

It was a jetta wagon. Only thing my Golf couldn't handle well is 3 large dogs in the back. I could do 2 fine but 3 dogs would really have to like each other to be all back there at once.

 

[GardRail]

I finally made it through this topic! lots of good information for raising a Golf/Jetta and giving it a bit of lift. It sounds like the vr6/wagon springs and new struts/shocks are a sure bet especially if they need to be replaced anyways.

I love the discussion about alternate energy as well with a replacement geared rear end, electric motor, ultra-capacitors and batteries. It was well worth the read!

 

[manual_tranny]

Thanks for reading! I hope that someday the alternate energy and electric geared rear end will be more than just a discussion.

I've really only done a lift and panzer plate and that was all I needed for better clearance. I'm probably not going to increase my tire size because it will end up costing me mpg.

Unfortunately, life happens... and I haven't been on any more climbing trips since I got the car lifted due to injury and major life changes...

I will use the Golf to get to climbing spots again someday soon..

 

[YoungDieselstein]

**Just noticed there were more pages in the thread.... my profile does say newbie.**

Fascinating thread from a couple years ago. Did anything ever come of it?

My opinion is: Overkill. But then again, I have no idea *exactly* what the roads you find yourself on look like. When I climb, we usually drive to a logical trailhead and hike in. I am not a serious climber, though. Just for fun; common climbs with people that know the areas. I'm not in setting new routes, first ascending anything.
I get the opposition to SUV's but what about a nice van? I have seen some pretty sweet Sportsman setups on Ford 7.3 TDs (the reliable one) that *claim* upwards of 23mpg with a Banks kit and a good tune.
As I read I could see that the only way you're going to get all of this onto a GOLF without likely torquing the unibody into a funny shape would be to weld a full cage/subframe setup a la rally. Then you'd have plenty of places to mount your gizmos! The true starting point would actually be a donor car for the 1.9 TDI, then have a fab shop weld you a frame that the TDI and supporting systems will bolt up to. There goes your 10k, into CAD design and materials and welding. It sure would be fun to do, though!

 

[FloridaMutt]

update?

 

[manual_tranny]

update?

Ah yes, my first thread. So much has changed. My obsession with my Golf lead me to work at Smyth Performance, where I am now a founder and engineer. This means that at the moment I am too busy starting up a new car company to build a rally Golf. While I am a little sad that the off-road version of my Golf didn't materialize as expected, I am gaining some incredible experience in engineering, fabrication, and every detail involved in starting up a company. Suddenly I find myself with years of experience finding flexible points on the chassis and fixing them, cutting/welding/bolting new stuff on, and testing my designs. If I ever decide to tackle the off-road Golf, I am now much better prepared to do it right the first time.
The Golf originally slated for an off-road build did get a 2" lift. At some point, there was some discussion that this might make the handling worse. That could not have been further from the truth. Lifting the MKIV chassis improves the camber under load. I took my lifted Golf to autocross and track events and found that there was a lot more grip and control with the lift than there was at a stock or lowered height.

As you can see from the front of the car, I hit a deer before this event:

It also had a brief but successful career as a tow truck:

The Golf is actually going to become a 2-door mid-engine sports car now. I've got some fancy uber-wide custom offset 18" wheels, a 2260 turbo, an 11mm pump, and a European close ratio 6-speed diesel 02M transmission that should make my G3F darn quick!
Here's a picture of the current build progress:

When I finally do an off-road build of the Golf or Jetta, it will most likely be with one of the Jetta truck kits we are developing. We stiffen up the chassis to make up for the steel we cut away.

 

[Kraiger]

wow. sir... Congrats!! Looks like you have your hands full for sure.

 

[30_Yr_Dsl_Veteran]

I could do 2 fine but 3 dogs would really have to like each other to be all back there at once.

Well then, put one on the roof in a box just like Mitt Romney did, you stooge maniac!!!