Raising Car for Off-Road Crawling or Rally

coalminer16

Top Post Dawg
Joined
Dec 11, 2008
Location
Central Wisconsin
TDI
Golf 2004
I was thinking on the attaching points for a bull bar would be going through the lower side grills on the points that people have attached there light bars but then attaching that piece to something bolted on to the front of the skid plate bracket so it would prevent it from twisting if you hit something and as an added benefit it would protect your radiator from a log or a cement tire stop in a parking lot. I can get that much figured out but until I get a welder (getting a 110 Volt with bottles and aluminum welder set up for $450 from an ex-welder, I don't have access to 220). From there if I could get some bent pipes and some straight sections or even find a cheap used bar to chop up I think I could make one. Just a matter of money for each thing.
 

JungleDeath

Veteran Member
Joined
Aug 27, 2005
Location
Reno, NV, USA
TDI
00 Golf_11 JSW
It's hard to explain what would tear this car apart and what would not. For the last 3 years (including today) I have been soft wheeling my Golf on some of northern Nevada's an nor Cal's most remote wilderness areas. I am continually blown away and just laugh at what a heavy motor and front drive can get through and retrace to come back from. Even with an open diff.

It seems that you (op) have taken enough risk and have been enlightened to the capability of your car. You can wheel these cars if you take some precautions. They are not perfect, but not every body needs perfect.

Anytime you can remove a variable that has the potential to leave you stranded is money well spent.

1. Get a skid plate. Whether you are lifted no inches or 4 inches, you will hit. 2/3 seasons later, the terrain changes. Sometimes we just make poor judgment. Sooner or later you will hit.

2. Traction is your best friend. Disconnect one side of your swaybar (keep a 16mm wrench in the trunk) and let the suspension articulate. At the dirt trail entrance turn the wheel full lock in either direction, shut the car off, unbolt one swaybar link, pull it forward an inch or two, drop the bolt in the door pocket and go. It helps a lot. I've tried it both ways.

3. Tires. Get the most aggressive tread that works well for your area. Upsize to something reasonable (205/70, 205/75, 215/65, on 15" rims) b/c you will gain traction and a slight lift.

4. Lift. Since you will be navigating logging roads, I will assume you will be driving rutted terrain. Low clearance vehicles don't do well in this arena. This is where the skid plate will save your a$$. This is where traction will make you her b!tch. So, the more the better? How you achieve it is up to you.

5. Injectors. Bigger injectors offer more torque. Since you are driving a 5 spd, you will need more idle-3000 rpm torque to keep forward momentum. .205's are good, pp 520's are better. An alternative to injectors is to do the hammer mod to up your injection quantity. The larger wheels has a surprising effect (reduced) on first gear grunt.

6. LSD. Wavetrac would win my vote. The zero load = open diff behavior of Quaif/Peloquin does not turn me on. Please note: I have no experience with any of the above manufactures. They are cost prohibitive to me at the moment. But I read a lot....

Things I would not do:
1. Brakes. The ones that came on your car are fine. The expense of doing smaller brakes to get a taller tire sidewall imo is wasting your money and time. If you could put your energy into sourcing a tougher rack and pinion assembly and some stout ball joints/ tie rod ends, would be much more fruitful. The longevity and longer service interval would be better for your free time.
I'm also thinking that the taller sidewall on a 5.5" rim is not a great combo for on road driveability (the other 90+% of the time).

2. Trailer. The current crop of U.S. hitches (Hidden Hitch et.al.) all hang too low and drag. I ended up pulling mine off. It hit so much it was a little bent. Also, if you have to back out of a sticky situation and that thing hangs you up? Ooof. A euro hitch is your best bet but they are bucks. Not DOT legal either...
An alternative? Roof rack with a 30 something inch wide, 60 something inch long cargo box. That will fit your gear in it, I would think. Mine sure as hell does. And I can lock it all up.

I hope I don't sound like a fatherly know it all. These are things I have observed over the years. I figured I'd just through it out there.

No, these cars were not designed to do what Jeeps do. But, how many people max out the capacity of their Jeeps? The A4 body cars are surprisingly capable. I figure if you are scraping the underside of your car constantly, you are in the wrong vehicle. I only scrape every so often, so I justify it. I would rather max out the capacity of this car before I move on. The learning experience from driving properly and consciously is priceless.
 
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manual_tranny

Smyth Performance- Intern
Joined
Jan 5, 2010
Location
New Bedford, MA
TDI
2001 Golf @182K; 2000 Jetta @290K
JungleDeath said:
For the last 3 years (including today) I have been soft wheeling my Golf on some of northern Nevada's an nor Cal's most remote wilderness areas. I am continually blown away and just laugh at what a heavy motor and front drive can get through and retrace to come back from. Even with an open diff.

No, these cars were not designed to do what Jeeps do. I would rather max out the capacity of this car before I move on.
♫♪♫♪ to my ears.

I already have a roof rack that holds a giant 7-day cooler and my crash pad. It makes the whole setup about 7' tall. I would love the european trailer hitch, I did not know the DOT had a problem with it. ╒∩εk the • for approving hitches that drill through the bottom of a thin metal unibody and not the uprated european version actually designed for the car.

My power mod plans are to start with an improved clutch, differential, and a 6-speed trans conversion. I think I'm going to want a low first gear. I may get an increased size fuel pump early on, but when I finally buy injectors I plan on pairing them with a huge intercooler and a kermatdi turbo setup.
 

manual_tranny

Smyth Performance- Intern
Joined
Jan 5, 2010
Location
New Bedford, MA
TDI
2001 Golf @182K; 2000 Jetta @290K
Thanks for the picture, that looks awesome!!

And it should be easier to get in and out of!!!

P.S. The dog makes the Golf look like a beast! Until I realize the wheel height means it is a small dog...
 
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coalminer16

Top Post Dawg
Joined
Dec 11, 2008
Location
Central Wisconsin
TDI
Golf 2004
Ya, pit bull terrier/blue healer mix (pound dog, 50 lbs). It does help a lot with mountain travel on the back roads and with snow. I did get spikes spider for the front wheels. I got the chain ones. Used them twice so far and they are really fast to get on and off.
 

manual_tranny

Smyth Performance- Intern
Joined
Jan 5, 2010
Location
New Bedford, MA
TDI
2001 Golf @182K; 2000 Jetta @290K
coalminer16 said:
Ya, pit bull terrier/blue healer mix (pound dog, 50 lbs). It does help a lot with mountain travel on the back roads and with snow. I did get spikes spider for the front wheels. I got the chain ones. Used them twice so far and they are really fast to get on and off.
I just looked up spikes spider. Have I been living under a freakin rock? Why haven't I heard of/seen these things? They look amazing. I can't figure out how to get my chains on even on a warm sunny day.

My plan B might now be to get 4 upsized off-road tires for regular driving, but keep two small wheels and tires for using spikes on the front. I don't know. I keep thinking that maybe increasing my front wheel well diameter might pay off allowing me both bigger on-off-road tires and room for those spikes... well... this is a project for another day. I'm going to get back to cleaning my garage so I can do this timing belt change without loosing anything in the mess, and so that I can continue having a car to modify in the future. :)
 

manual_tranny

Smyth Performance- Intern
Joined
Jan 5, 2010
Location
New Bedford, MA
TDI
2001 Golf @182K; 2000 Jetta @290K
F250_JR said:
About the whole bull bar/bumper thing. I have wished multiple times that I could see some diagrams and schematics for the unibody and frame of the Golf model we are dealing with. I have looked online, but I can't find anything like that. Could somebody possibly find something like that? I would imagine that even the Bentley manual might have some type of diagram for the frame, and it would make it a lot easier to figure out where the best mounting points would be.
Found a picture, uploaded it to the forums.

http://pics.tdiclub.com/showphoto.php?photo=62426
 

coalminer16

Top Post Dawg
Joined
Dec 11, 2008
Location
Central Wisconsin
TDI
Golf 2004

You didn't post the code to upload the photo so I did if for you. Thanks for finding that though for us all. The hardest thing about the spikes spider is the cost. But in about 30 seconds you can install and another 30 seconds you can take off. Faster with a partner. I got stuck going up a hill on a back street full of snow and a truck followed behind me. He didn't even get impatient. I took right of with them on. They do take up more space then the old style chains/cables in the trunk. Hope the timing belt goes good.
 
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gidb36

Veteran Member
Joined
Jan 28, 2005
Location
Sioux Falls,SD
TDI
Beetle,1998,White,1988 Suzuki Samurai with Ecodiesel installed
If you guys show me how to post pics i'll show you what my beetle looks like with 27 inch tires and about 4 inches of lift.

Currently seeing if I can get some 15 inch tires so I could fit 215/75/15. The reason for the 15 inch rim is the offset puts it further away from the shock which is what is impeding any larger sizes. Might even try 225/75/15 which would make a 28.3 inch tire if I can get it in there. Either way whichever tire I end up shoosing it will probably be General Grabber AT2 again.
 

gidb36

Veteran Member
Joined
Jan 28, 2005
Location
Sioux Falls,SD
TDI
Beetle,1998,White,1988 Suzuki Samurai with Ecodiesel installed
Alright boys and girls.




The lift was acheived with a kit not unlike the Metalnerd kit, however it was made much earlier and before Metalnerd even sold one. I also have VR6 springs, and 215/65/16 AT2 tires. This gives me a total of about 4 inches of lift. But I'm not stopping there.
 

DCELL

Veteran Member
Joined
Apr 15, 2002
Location
Sheridan, IN
TDI
'01 GOLF 2DR, ‘15 Passat SEL TDI
that's awesome! Do the tires throw your speedo off much? What kind of fuel mileage hit did you take, if any?
 

gidb36

Veteran Member
Joined
Jan 28, 2005
Location
Sioux Falls,SD
TDI
Beetle,1998,White,1988 Suzuki Samurai with Ecodiesel installed
Speedo is off by 8.5 percent. Mileage did take a hit, however I can still get 50 MPG on a rare occasion.

Tell me what you think. I wanna switch to a 15 inch rim with a 42mm offset so I can facilitate a 225/75/15. This is a 28.3 inch tire and i'm wondering if I can fit it in besides the strut tower. I'm willing to do sidewall trimming just as long as I can horse shoe it in there.
 

manual_tranny

Smyth Performance- Intern
Joined
Jan 5, 2010
Location
New Bedford, MA
TDI
2001 Golf @182K; 2000 Jetta @290K
gidb36 said:
Haha don't everyone get up and shout at once.
HAHAHA I'm sorry man thanks very much for uploading that it looks awesome! I'm sorry I have been too busy screwing around with my timing belt to comment!!!
 

manual_tranny

Smyth Performance- Intern
Joined
Jan 5, 2010
Location
New Bedford, MA
TDI
2001 Golf @182K; 2000 Jetta @290K
gidb36 said:
Speedo is off by 8.5 percent. Mileage did take a hit, however I can still get 50 MPG on a rare occasion.

Tell me what you think. I wanna switch to a 15 inch rim with a 42mm offset so I can facilitate a 225/75/15. This is a 28.3 inch tire and i'm wondering if I can fit it in besides the strut tower. I'm willing to do sidewall trimming just as long as I can horse shoe it in there.
This is what I'm thinking. I plan on figuring this part out someday!
 

coalminer16

Top Post Dawg
Joined
Dec 11, 2008
Location
Central Wisconsin
TDI
Golf 2004
You could always ask a tire shop to barrow on in the parking lot as you want to mock it up to see if it will fit. Just get the rubber tire with out the rim and tell them that you are trying to see if it fits and if it does you are strongly considering buying from them so they are more willing to let you do it. Just bring the tools to take a tire off in there parking lot so they don't think you ran off with there tire.
 

HysteriaRunRiot

Veteran Member
Joined
Jun 20, 2009
Location
Long Island New York
TDI
2016 A7 Prestige S-Line TDI
I know you're apposed to buying a jeep. But my suggestion, because i used to own a wrangler before my current golf, and kind of miss it, but do not miss the mileage the 4.0L straight 6 gave, is to take a vw tdi engine, and put it in a Suzuki Samurai.

Money wise, you're not talking too crazy if you have the engine already, and there's already a kit out there make it easy, trust me, I looked into it, it's common.

http://www.acmeadapters.com/index.php?sound=Y

just my idea, if you're real gung ho on converting the jetta, then go for it

it'll be an interesting looking beast when all is said and done :)
 

JungleDeath

Veteran Member
Joined
Aug 27, 2005
Location
Reno, NV, USA
TDI
00 Golf_11 JSW
C'mon manual_tranny. Hurry up...

Getting stuffed...

[/IMG]

Three wheels touching...

[/IMG]

and one not...

[/IMG]

Waiting to hear about your progress. :)
 

JungleDeath

Veteran Member
Joined
Aug 27, 2005
Location
Reno, NV, USA
TDI
00 Golf_11 JSW
indiana542003 said:
LOL, articulation photos of a golf. I thought i was looking at an issue of an offroad magazine for a second! Love it!
If the front wheels are not touching, you are out of luck. So yes, I'm a big fan of articulation; no swaybar.

Need a diff lock...

Btw, I have no lift. I plan on scouting out a new area this weekend. Hopefully it won't snow tonight. More pics?
 

JungleDeath

Veteran Member
Joined
Aug 27, 2005
Location
Reno, NV, USA
TDI
00 Golf_11 JSW
coalminer16 said:
Impressive.
Pfff. I have been in places where there is NO turn around. Places where you say "damn, if sh1t happens, I'm hours away from a tow truck, or any body coming around soon. Hmm. Let's see where this leads to..." and I made it. The picture size to prove it are not excepted by the Club server. So...

This was potentially a skid plate ripper getting here, last summer.

http://picasaweb.google.com/lh/photo/i10b8aG477-K9ZHWdvu4YA?feat=directlink

and this one is the last photo I have of the "holy crap, I'm really on my own", two hours later....

http://picasaweb.google.com/pgirard26/A4Stuff#5233293897597634578

The other photos are too big to host, but what ever. This past summer I dropped my daughter off at tennis and...I ran into a desert wash area (thinking, would a Toureg get through that????) So I turned @ and went back. Oh well.

I grew up on the eastern seaboard but I love Nevada.

Manual_Tranny...where you at?
 

JungleDeath

Veteran Member
Joined
Aug 27, 2005
Location
Reno, NV, USA
TDI
00 Golf_11 JSW
Oh, btw. Notice the treads. All season touring tires. Not great but doable. My version of "traction sucks during the wet, but, you would be surprised...".

I really am a fan of heavy motor, front wheel traction.

It is not real 4 wheeling but...damn it's surprising what it can do, right gidb36?

manual_tranny are you out there??? Get your t-belt done. Go wheeling.

Edit: I'm going to Vag Com into RC2 and try that (for more early torque) and see if that is helpful while slow speed wheeling. I'll report back.
 
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manual_tranny

Smyth Performance- Intern
Joined
Jan 5, 2010
Location
New Bedford, MA
TDI
2001 Golf @182K; 2000 Jetta @290K
JungleDeath said:
Pfff. I have been in places where there is NO turn around. Places where you say "damn, if sh1t happens, I'm hours away from a tow truck, or any body coming around soon. Hmm. Let's see where this leads to..." and I made it. The picture size to prove it are not excepted by the Club server. So...

This was potentially a skid plate ripper getting here, last summer.
When I went to replace my timing belt, I was 'surprised' to see that I'd lost my plastic skid plate and the side protectors. Ripped right off for some reason. Ha. For some reason. I share your passion for fwd offroading + engine weight. I wish I could get this project off the ground faster but I'll have to wait until March or April.
 

gidb36

Veteran Member
Joined
Jan 28, 2005
Location
Sioux Falls,SD
TDI
Beetle,1998,White,1988 Suzuki Samurai with Ecodiesel installed
The machines can really hold there own in places I never thought I would ever take a little Beetle. Just this last summer after a trip up Pikes Peak I found some interesting mountain logging roads around that area and tested my vehicles prowess on sharp rocks and razor sharp turns, that if were performed incorrectly would end at the bottum of a 500 foot drop to the side of the cliff.

On a side note I actually built a Suzuki Samurai diesel myself with an Acme Adapters kit. The little thing was awesome at going through just about anything, and the 1.6L Ecodiesel was more than enough to power the thing and returned 34 MPG. It was very simple and and easy to work on once all the cooling kinks were worked out.

My only complaint with the project is I had to sell it because I couldn't affor to keep two cars running or have the space to keep both. So just this past fall I sold it to a nice man in WI.

Boy I miss that car.

Just out of curiosity does anyone know how to get 15 inch rims for real cheap locally in Sioux Falls SD?
 

coalminer16

Top Post Dawg
Joined
Dec 11, 2008
Location
Central Wisconsin
TDI
Golf 2004
Sioux Falls? I lived in Brookings for 5 years going to school and spent many a weekend going to SUFU. I would ask some salavage yards for rims. Otherwise Tirerack.com has rims. If you are looking to put tires on and don't own the tires yet tirerack is one of the cheapest sources even with shipping as you don't pay tax. They come mounted and balanced.

I might have to take some pictures of the off road stuff I will be going through again this spring to train to run the Big horn trail run again (100 miles). Several times at the trail heads people couldn't believe I made it that far (after my lift). The snow, mud and rocks on the back roads of the Big horns that I didn't even know existed till before I entered the race. I was going over skull sized rocks. I find the skid plate really does skid over the rocks. Just really slow. Clear the ones off the road that you can. I was able to make it to one trail head but my wife said that for the race I had to barrow a truck as she didn't think she could. By fall I will be putting my VR6 front springs I bought on (still have to buy shocks and rear wagon springs) and do my timing belt. Also going to get my PD 150 injectors put in since I just bought a EGT/Boost gauge, only after I have the oil press/temp gauge as well (also found a used pod). And block off the EGR to put the EGT probe in and then have Kerma retun my car again. Keep the pictures coming everyone with a lifted car in use. Kind of a show what you tow only a show your lift in use. I like the front sway bar trick. That is something I learned but it makes sense.
 
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