r&r rusted brake lines

[dieseljunkie]

They are NLA from VW so must fab ur own. Any tips to make the job easier? The one that sprung a leak is the transverse one (L to R) on the rear.

 

[TonyJetta]

I would use stainless tubing.

I'll have to look later; there is a supplier I came across on the tdiclub that sells some tubing that is flexible & easy to bend by hand.

Tony

 

[Alchemist]

Most auto parts stores have premade lines in various lengths, so you should be able to find something that will work.

Paul

 

[dieseljunkie]

Stainless brakeline? Wouldn't that be brittle and difficult to flare without special equiment?

Anyone know diameter and type of flare so I can have all parts and tools ready?

 

[burpod]

i use cunifer line from fedhillusa.com good stuff, great prices... they also have all the fittings/etc you would want, and they are based in MA, so shipping around here is fast. and i have a couple basic bending tools from eastwood, works great

 

[TonyJetta]

i use cunifer line from fedhillusa.com

That's the company I was trying to remember!

Tony

 

[schultp]

Poly-Armour line is available at any of the national auto parts chains. It comes in a large roll or in various lengths with pre-flared ends with nuts. I went with the roll and cut and flared the ends myself when I fixed a similar problem on my wife's car last year. However, if you can find the right length the pre-flared lines are a better choice on hindsight since the flares are factory made and of higher quality that the homebrew flared ends.

I used a flaring tool I bought from Harbor Freight and learned as I went so this could have been a factor though!

Good luck,

 

[burpod]

i got a mastercool bubble flare tool kit on amazon.. it was ~$70-$90 iirc. absolutely love it, works awesome

 

[dieseljunkie]

i use cunifer line from fedhillusa.com good stuff, great prices... they also have all the fittings/etc you would want, and they are based in MA, so shipping around here is fast. and i have a couple basic bending tools from eastwood, works great

Thanks burpod, checked out their website. Using plumber's solder as a measuring tape is brilliant in their FAG! The lines look great also - so easy to bend! I will order a 25' roll of 3/16.

Got under the car and got the heat shield off and I am now faced with badly rusted flare nuts (rounded out) and the clip that secures it to chassis bracket to the flex rubber line is also rusted out. Gotta find the Dremel to cut it off.

Do you know the type of flare used and the size of flare nut? I would assume it is DIN ISO/bubble 10 mm x 1.0 but without being able to get it off (yet) I'm not sure what to order.

Can you provide a link to the flaring tool you got on Amazon that would do the DIN bubble flare? My flaring tool only do inverted double SAE inverted flares damm!

Maybe I can find a Poly Armour pre-flared line of the right length and DIN ends that would save me some bucks.

 

[dieseljunkie]

Just got back from Autozone and bought pre flared Cu Ni Fe alloy lines, very soft, easy to bend. expensive though. a 40 inch and a 50 inch piece is 17 and 20 dollars respectively. hopefully 1 of them will fit. Borrowed their flaring tool in case I need to make it shorter.

 

[burpod]

http://www.amazon.com/Mastercool-IS...90499&sr=8-3&keywords=mastercool+bubble+flare

that's the mastercool flaring tool i got, works great.

the nuts i used:
http://store.fedhillusa.com/14nutpack.aspx

 

[schultp]

Just got back from Autozone and bought pre flared Cu Ni Fe alloy lines, very soft, easy to bend. expensive though. a 40 inch and a 50 inch piece is 17 and 20 dollars respectively.

Wow, that is expensive. Maybe that's why I went with buying the roll and flaring kit last year.

 

[burpod]

50' of cunifer line from fedhill is $100 pack of nuts.. $12 and you're all set

these are the bending tools i have - $50 from eastwood:

http://www.amazon.com/Eastwood-Tubi...28&sr=8-3&keywords=eastwood+brake+line+bender

great for making fuel lines too! i'm very happy with the relatively small investment in buying these tools...

 

[dieseljunkie]

Thanks for the links burpod

25' from Ebay $43 shipped

http://www.ebay.com/itm/BEST-BRAKE-...Parts_Accessories&hash=item1c2999320b&vxp=mtr

25' from Fedhill $55, shipping not included

The Amazon flaring tool looks similar to the one from Autozone for $30. I'll let you know how it works.

 

[schultp]

Or,

Poly-Armour 25' for 24.99 from Autozone.

Poly-Armour bends by hand without kinking. Pull your old rusted line and use it as a template to make your new line.

 

[dieseljunkie]

Or,

Poly-Armour 25' for 24.99 from Autozone.

Poly-Armour bends by hand without kinking. Pull your old rusted line and use it as a template to make your new line.

We played with that stuff while at Autozone. They were nice enough to bring a roll out to demonstrate the loaner flaring tool. It is bendable by hand but no where as soft the the Cu Ni Fe line.

I found an old 3/16 brake line made of copper from an old Peugeot that must be 30 years old and did a practice flare on the Autozone loaner tool

Here it is being flared. The nut end is a factory flare.

The finished product, which looks pretty good, much better than the Poly Armour steel flare that looked like crap and would not have sealed.

 

[dieseljunkie]

My thinking is that copper will last the life of the car as demonstrated by the 30 year old Peugeot copper line that I made a test flare from.

A 25' roll of 3/16 copper is $25 shipped Ebay from the UK. Not as exotic as the Cunifer stuff but probably just as easy to bend but half the cost.

http://www.ebay.com/itm/3-16-X-25-F...763?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_3&hash=item2ebfa6365b

I am going to see if I can find some 3/16 copper locally at a reasonable price tomorrow.

 

[burpod]

wow... that's an amazing price for being shipped from the UK! who would have thought lol...

 

[dieseljunkie]

wow... that's an amazing price for being shipped from the UK! who would have thought lol...

Thhat particular Ebayer don't ship to the US though. There's another from the UK that will about $34 shipped to US.

I called around locally and found

Autozone has 25' roll of Cu Ni Fe 3/16 25' by Nicopp for $50

NAPA has it for $45 different brand (American grease stick co)

A local auto parts place has Surr 25' for $40

Looked up Surr and found it on Amazon for $29 + $8 shipping

http://www.amazon.com/SUR-Auto-Parts-SRRBREZ100-Tubing/dp/B002YKE7DU

Looks like the same stuff as Cunifer?

I'll just buy a roll locally for $40.

 

[dieseljunkie]

Looked up the stuff NAPA sells and apparently it is the same stuff Autozone sells

http://www.agscompany.com/automotive/brake-fuel-transmission-lines/nicopp/11

This link mentions several Euro brands including Audi who used the Cu Ni Fe brake lines. Why didn't VW use it? I talked to a VW dealer parts guy today and he said new VW's still use the crappy rust prone steel brake lines.

 

[dieseljunkie]

http://www.amazon.com/Mastercool-IS...90499&sr=8-3&keywords=mastercool+bubble+flare

that's the mastercool flaring tool i got, works great.

the nuts i used:
http://store.fedhillusa.com/14nutpack.aspx

That's a great price on Amazon for the Mastercool 7100 set. Are the adapters on the Mastercool self centering or threaded into the yoke ram screw like this OTC 4504?

http://www.ebay.com/itm/OTC-4504-Me..._Automotive_Tools&hash=item1c27dce168&vxp=mtr

 

[burpod]

i dunno what "self-center" is, i just pop them in and use it. they thread on, but there is some wiggle room, so i think it self-centers? my first flare came out almost perfect then every other one i've done has been 100% perfect. no issues. i also got a mastercool cut tool, iirc it was ~$25 or so shipped also from amazon. pretty nice for my occaisional use. but hey, pretty much once you make new brake lines for your car with decent stuff.. it should most likely be the last time you ever have to do that.

i have used that flare tool to also make a little bit of a lip when redoing some metal fuel lines that i've cut to make room to fit an inline pump etc..

 

[dieseljunkie]

The loaner Autozoo flaring tool (in pic above) cannot make consistent good bubble flares. 4 out of 5 are crooked and that's unacceptable. I attribute it to the yoke floating in respect to the bar, instead of keyed to the bar like the Mastercool.

I didn't want to mail order and found this Brasscraft set at Home Depot for $25! The yoke is keyed, just like the Mastercool. I tested it and it made a good bubble first try! This is what it looks like, along with the Cu Ni Fe brake line. It does not come with the buttons for the bubble flare but that's ok, I have a set.

 

[burpod]

making your own brake lines is the best

fwiw, i never found it helpful to use an existing brake line to use as a prototype, other than to eyeball it

 

[dieseljunkie]

making your own brake lines is the best

fwiw, i never found it helpful to use an existing brake line to use as a prototype, other than to eyeball it

Yeah I figured that I'd have to make more than one line and the pre flared line is never the right length so I have to cut and flare one end anyway (and too damn expensive).

I got the flare nut off one end of the rubber line and got the spring clip off. The top spring clip rotted out and the flare nut rusted out so bad there is nothing to grap onto. I can't get the top flare apart. Any tips? It's also i a tight spot.

 

[burpod]

dood. cut all that **** out. get new rubber (or stainless) lines.. germanautoparts.com has them. while you're doing that rebuild your front calipers at least. it's easy. pop out the pistons, use some paint thinner and a scrubby and clean them out, get out some of the gunk and blast some brake cleaner thru the pinholes. and if you know someone, sandblast and paint them while it's all apart before doing the final cleaning

one thing i hate the most is some of the ridiculous vw clips/etc that hold on parking brakes and some lines.. ughhhh

 

[Abacus]

I left those clips right off since they're a pain and I had to do my rear bushings once a year (but it's been fine since I put in the latest set). Speaking of which, your rear bushings aren't looking that great, those are crusty!

When redoing brake lines, it's often easier to not piecemeal them together.

 

[dieseljunkie]

I left those clips right off since they're a pain and I had to do my rear bushings once a year (but it's been fine since I put in the latest set). Speaking of which, your rear bushings aren't looking that great, those are crusty!

When redoing brake lines, it's often easier to not piecemeal them together.

What's the purpose of those spring clips? My guess is they prevent movement of the hard line when braking so they don't continually flex and break over time? Did you put the line and hose through the hole in the chassis bracket or left them hanging? zip tied?

How do I test them rear bushings?

These are the clips we're talkin about

 

[dieseljunkie]

making your own brake lines is the best

fwiw, i never found it helpful to use an existing brake line to use as a prototype, other than to eyeball it

Can you please describe your procedure to make your own line, getting the lengths and bends right to thread into the fittings and snap into the plastic line holders. I know that with steel (very stiff) brake lines, unless the line is bent so it gets a straight shot at the fitting, you can never get thread started. Is this problem eliminated with the Cunifer lines?

 

[burpod]

i really didn't have much of a procedure. i used some string + tape to get the basic length right.. i had the car up on all fours, looked at some of the original line, and started bending, test fitting, then take a measurement for the next bend.. bend it... rinse and repeat. the cunifer is easily bendable by hand so it all works out as far as clipping into place for brake line holders or if you didn't get a bend just right and now there's not enough room to fit your bend tool in. unfortunately i never took any pics of this, but i'm quite happy with the result. it's not as "perfect" as oem lines, but came out exactly as i had hoped.

of course it was a little easier in my case, because my car was still mostly a shell and had no engine in it when i did the brake lines... and the mk1 lines are simpler back at the rear beam