Project Kill Da Auto Wabbit!, Or how I learned to love the Manual Swap

[Shifty]

OKay guys you're going to love this:

We have no continuity from TCM red/yellow to the ECM, and we DO NOT HAVE an ECM pin 19. We're working with a Bentley manual and GdB instructions. At this point none of the colors or pins listed on the GdB scematic is matching anything we're seeing (beyond the pedal switches and reverse switch pigtail). Basically, we're stuck at the ECM pinning step.

If anyone can help tonight, please call us! 405-474-7551

TIA

 

[Shifty]

Oops double post.

Anyway a little update, according to the Bentley, the GdB instructions are only going to work on a 2.0 Auto, which makes no sense, although we have no yellow/red at the ECM. We're back to square one, trying to rig it to run without the clutch switch(es). Good times. Again, any help is appreciated.

 

[alphaseinor]

The old wiring instructions were an experiment... I need to go back and fix a couple of things...

 

[Losha]

Oops double post.

Anyway a little update, according to the Bentley, the GdB instructions are only going to work on a 2.0 Auto, which makes no sense, although we have no yellow/red at the ECM. We're back to square one, trying to rig it to run without the clutch switch(es). Good times. Again, any help is appreciated.

There are two yellow/red wires at TCU, one is ticker & other one is tinner. You need to find continuty from Pin #63 at TCU connector that should be yellow/red to yellow/red Pin #19 at ECU connector (the black connector) then remove that yellow/red Pin#19 (from black ECU connector) and insert into Pin #66 on white ECU connector.

The clutch switch wire colors are always different, so you can connect to either one of wire at clutch swith. I will be in shop tomorrow morning & at night by my car so you can give me call and I will walk you thru the wiring. My cell 605-929-9614 Alex

 

[Shifty]

There are two yellow/red wires at TCU, one is ticker & other one is tinner. You need to find continuty from Pin #63 at TCU connector that should be yellow/red to yellow/red Pin #19 at ECU connector (the black connector) then remove that yellow/red Pin#19 (from black ECU connector) and insert into Pin #66 on white ECU connector.

Thats the problem - I have no yellow/red at the ECU. We have the yellow/red from the TCM but there is no continuity between that wire and anything into the ECU. Remember this swap is on a 2002 Beetle... I have yet to see anyone working this swap on this late of a Bug, and I wonder if the wiring is just plain different.

I know I'm being a PITA, but would someone mind labeling pins 19 and 66? With the colors seemingly different on my car, labeling the pins might at least help give me an idea on where to start. The numbers on the plastic connector don't seem to help, as they're sporatic and seem to be random.

SO... The reverse lamps and starter interlock seem to be finished. At this point we're stumped on the TCM/ECM portion. I will try and get some pics up tonight so you guys can see the colors I'm working with in there.

 

[Shifty]

Also, what ever came of this method posted back on P.20? I keep going back to it and thinking about going this route since it seems to eliminate the ECM step. I also read conflicting reports on the 53 relay, and whether or not it's needed. The below method doesn't mention a 53. I went ahead and ordered one, as I am trying to use the GdB instructions.

Automatic to Manual wiring instructions for a 2002 Jetta Wagon TDI: (should work for all A4s but YMMV)

Pop the lower dash panels off and pull out the relay panel.
Find relay 175

Cut the red/grey wire and red/yellow wires and ground them.

Now you get to decide how you want your car to work, and wire accordingly.

Cranking options:
1) To start only in reverse, but still with no clutch safety switch just follow the engine bay instructions below
2) To start with no clutch safety switch, but also no gear requirement just connect the yellow/blue to the green/black on the back of relay 175.
3) To crank like a normal manual (no gear requirement, clutch must be pushed in) then connect the yellow/blue to one side of the white clutch switch and connect the green/black to the other side of the white clutch switch. * NOTE: Do NOT cut the green/black or yellow/blue but connect into them.

** Note: I'll leave the method of connection up to you. Some prefer to remove pins and insert new wires with pins properly into the harness, some prefer to solder, some may want to try clamp-on connectors. I went with the soldering method personally, and won't get into a which is best debate which I'm sure will ensue.

Now Go to the engine bay

Pull the airbox access panel by removing the 4 phillips screws and sliding it out and up.

Slide the TCU connector off by pushing the handle on the driver's side of the TCU toward the driver's side of the car (it is a sliding lock)
You can remove the TCU and try to ebay it, or just leave it sitting there.

Located in the wiring under the airbox area: take the transmission switch connector (pictured many pages back), and using your method of choice connect the yellow/blue wire to one side of the manual transmission reverse lamp switch. Connect the green/black wire to the other side of the transmission reverse lamp switch. (reverse lamp switch also pictured many pages back).

Tada! That should be it for the wiring.

I need to go back out and test my new clutch safety switch idea, but I see no reason at all why it wouldn't work.

 

[alphaseinor]

Also, what ever came of this method posted back on P.20? I keep going back to it and thinking about going this route since it seems to eliminate the ECM step. I also read conflicting reports on the 53 relay, and whether or not it's needed. The below method doesn't mention a 53. I went ahead and ordered one, as I am trying to use the GdB instructions.

That only works on a few models. it worked on mine, but I have yet to get it to work on any other car.

Basically what you want is to have the switched +12 (momentary switch for start) go to the clutch pedal, the clutch pedal will now go to the side of the new manual relay with the coil, the other side of the coil is grounded.

the other side of the relay will have the switched +12 (run) and the other side will go to the starter motor.

since the colors are different you will need to get this right... would you report back the colors you have when this is working?

the reverse switch needs +12v accessory... I use the transmission controller's +12 lead. the other side will need to have the connector in the rain tray moved to another connector, see the bentley for it's location.

The cruise will need to be wired in... on automatic cars there isn't a pin in #16, so you are supposed to use a pin from the TCU, or get a spice connector from the dealer.

Let us know how it's going.

 

[alphaseinor]

I've updated the first page with the wiring instructions, in PDF format

 

[Losha]

Thats the problem - I have no yellow/red at the ECU. We have the yellow/red from the TCM but there is no continuity between that wire and anything into the ECU. Remember this swap is on a 2002 Beetle... I have yet to see anyone working this swap on this late of a Bug, and I wonder if the wiring is just plain different.

I know I'm being a PITA, but would someone mind labeling pins 19 and 66? With the colors seemingly different on my car, labeling the pins might at least help give me an idea on where to start. The numbers on the plastic connector don't seem to help, as they're sporatic and seem to be random.

SO... The reverse lamps and starter interlock seem to be finished. At this point we're stumped on the TCM/ECM portion. I will try and get some pics up tonight so you guys can see the colors I'm working with in there.

The last manual swap I did was on 01 NB so the wiring would be the same I think as yours. If you don't mind I will give you call once I will be in shop by my car tonight around 6pm. Then I will look how exactly I did on my golf and help you get it to work. I had same issue as you do and I had to use some different wire and get it to work correctly, can't remember which one for sure of my head.

 

[Shifty]

Let us know how it's going.

That info should help a lot! Just having it laid out in words makes my headache less painful.

I appreicate you guys bearing with me - I don't claim to be good at wiring by any stretch, and the guy helping me out with the wiring is not very familiar with this platform. The Bentley is little help.

Now, theorhetically, if I wanted to make the cruise and reverse lamps work but I don't care about the clutch switches, I only need to pin the ECM... but what about the relay area? Am I wrong in thinking it would aleviate some headaches in doing away with those? Being that I will be the only one driving this car I'm not too concerned with the clutch switches.

 

[Shifty]

If you don't mind I will give you call once I will be in shop by my car tonight around 6pm. Then I will look how exactly I did on my golf and help you get it to work. I had same issue as you do and I had to use some different wire and get it to work correctly, can't remember which one for sure of my head.

That would be awesome. I will send cookies if you get my car to start and run.

 

[Losha]

That would be awesome. I will send cookies if you get my car to start and run.

Sounds good. You want me PM my address, where to ship them?

 

[alphaseinor]

it's not a good idea to run that much current through the ignition switch. That's why there's a relay.

 

[TN2002tdi]

I've got most of my parts for the swap, but I've a got a few questions.

1. Has it been determined that both protective tins for the manual cars are required or can one or both of the tins on the auto trans cars be used with equal results? It looks like I can get both from IMPEX for about $30 if required.

2. I haven't been able to find the engine to trans steel plate/flange at a salvage yard. Does anyone have a part # for it or have this part to sell?

3. I did find a power steering pump to rack line. Does anyone have a parts # for the washer/seals for it? I think 2 are required on each end.

4. Does anyone have parts # and/or sizes of the starter mounting bolts?

5. Can the rear main crankshaft seal be easily changed with the trans removed? If so, this seems like it would be good preventative maint. Has anyone done this?

6. I got both axles from the salvage yard but the bearing grease looks contaminated with dirt on the diff end. It looks like a gasket holding the bearings in place. How do I clean these? Do I need new seals or gaskets?

 

[alphaseinor]

1) 2) The tins from the automatic will actually work, however the tins are on any 4 cyl engine. the junkyard won't know what you're talking about... I got mine for free.

3) The Crush washers are standard copper crush washers... I get mine at Home Depot, or the dealer.

4) the automatic ones worked for me.

5) The rear seal can be removed easily, however you should make sure you do it right the first time, otherwise you've got to remove a bunch of stuff to get back there. you will need some white seal "pookie" from VW.

6) just clean the grease out with brake cleaner, get new grease from VW, pack in as much as you can while rotating the shaft until it's smooth, then fill it up to the brim. You will need the seals, and new bolts, don't reuse the old ones.

 

[Losha]

For automatic tin to work with manual you will need to grind off ridges on it so it won't grind against flywheel. The bad part about using auto tins is that it makes little bit diffecult to install/remove transmission compare to manual one.

It would be wise thing to replace rear mainshaft seal while you have tranny out, so you won't have to remove transmission twice. The seal comes with plastic ring inserted inside DO NOT remove it before installing. What you do is you align center hole of plastic cap inside of seal with crankshaft and slide seal over the crankshaft and that cap will slide out at sametime. This will prevent you from damaging seal and make installation easier.

 

[TN2002tdi]

Thanks for your advice guys.

Would you happen to have a part # for white seal "pookie"? Is this white lithium grease?

I found some good axle rebuild kits that I am going to buy for piece of mind. The outer CV joints feel good, but I don't want to have to worry about it in the future. They did come out of a 6yr. old car w/ 74K.

These kits include everything you need to overhaul the joints and new axle bolts.

I found this kit for the outer joints at MJM:
http://www.mjmautohaus.com/catalog/product_info.php?cPath=2_7_23_57_390&info=OEM_VAG_1H0498203A_CV_Joint_Boot_Kit_for_5-spd_Outer_OEM&products_id=2328

I found these kits for the inner. The left and right side are different parts.

Right: http://www.worldimpex.com/item_detail.html?sku=50943

Left: http://www.worldimpex.com/item_detail.html?sku=849057

There is also a kit available if your outer CV joints are bad. Take a close look at your axle nut threads if they came from salvage. One of mine was banged up pretty bad. http://www.mjmautohaus.com/catalog/product_info.php?cPath=2_7_23_57_390&info=Meyle_357498099EMY_CV_Joint_and_Boot_Kit_Outer&products_id=2807

 

[alphaseinor]

it's the hardening sealant for the oil pan. not lithium grease.

 

[Shifty]

Well tomorrow's the night - my 53 relay comes in the mail and Losha plans to help walk me through some things over the phone. She MIGHT just run!

 

[Losha]

Well tomorrow's the night - my 53 relay comes in the mail and Losha plans to help walk me through some things over the phone. She MIGHT just run!

Don't worry she will run better then before. Once everything gets to work properly, you will love your TDI with manual trans, and you will not regret that you had to go thru all of this trouble.

Can you please PM me DIY instructions on painting and sanding. thanks

 

[alphaseinor]

Paint and sand... I like PPG Delstar... but then again, mine's white...

 

[TN2002tdi]

it's the hardening sealant for the oil pan. not lithium grease.

The part # for this product is: D176404A2

http://www.mjmautohaus.com/catalog/product_info.php?products_id=2340http://www.tdiparts.com/catalog/product_info.php?cPath=24_44&products_id=715

 

[Losha]

Paint and sand... I like PPG Delstar... but then again, mine's white...

I know that paint and sand. I got it all primed already but I got little bit confuse with what grid of paper to use & when. My is white too, after its gets painted it should look nice with R32 front bumper.

 

[aja8888]

I know that paint and sand. I got it all primed already but I got little bit confuse with what grid of paper to use & when. My is white too, after its gets painted it should look nice with R32 front bumper.

Use wet sandpaper. The smaller the grit number the coarser. Use 240 or 320 for a starter (wet, lots of water). For finish priming (if you are going to prime), sand with 600 or higher. The finer the paper, the smaller the sanding scratches. If you use a paint basecoat (color) and finish with clear (ureathane + hardener), then sand the clear with 1000 grit (wet) and rub with good rubbing compound. I worked in a paint shop years ago and sanded my hands off!

 

[Losha]

Use wet sandpaper. The smaller the grit number the coarser. Use 240 or 320 for a starter (wet, lots of water). For finish priming (if you are going to prime), sand with 600 or higher. The finer the paper, the smaller the sanding scratches. If you use a paint basecoat (color) and finish with clear (ureathane + hardener), then sand the clear with 1000 grit (wet) and rub with good rubbing compound. I worked in a paint shop years ago and sanded my hands off!

Thanks for info. I got everything all primer coated but got confused with which grit number to use to wet sand primer before color coat. I started with 400 in one spot and someone told me thats too hard and need to use like 600. I'm planning to go with 600 then 800 and color coat followed by clear coat then like 1200 & higher then buff and wax later.

 

[aja8888]

Losha: For two stage paint (color, then clear/hardener), finish (after color coating) with three wet coats of clear, allowing 10 -15 minutes between each coat to take a set. When dried to paint mfr's standard time interval, then you can sand (water) using 1200+ and rub, rub, rub....with compund! You can machine rub and finish with a bonnet that will remove swirl marks using a suitable product. Should be GREAT!!

 

[alphaseinor]

I use 600 for the really bad orangepeel, then move to 1000 lightly, then 1500 to get the rest of the bumps out... then of course rubbing compound.

I'm still hand rubbing mine...

 

[aja8888]

I use 600 for the really bad orangepeel, then move to 1000 lightly, then 1500 to get the rest of the bumps out... then of course rubbing compound.

I'm still hand rubbing mine...

Brian, is the Golf painted then?

 

[alphaseinor]

well... the doors are now mostly done, unfortunately we had an attack of cottonwood late in the day, so I get to scrub down the drivers door later next week. The glass is in the back doors, and I'm changing the switches on the door lock actuators.

Now on to the engine...

 

[aja8888]

well... the doors are now mostly done, unfortunately we had an attack of cottonwood late in the day, so I get to scrub down the drivers door later next week. The glass is in the back doors, and I'm changing the switches on the door lock actuators.

Now on to the engine...

Progress!! can't wait for a ride one of these days.