PD cams

[mlemorie]

I agree with the statement earlier in this thread about any cam not making a difference with your fueling maxxed. Yes its an unfortunate situation, but how is making a thread about this going to change anything? You wont see any gains with any cam until you fix your fueling, so why not bite the bullet and spring for the nozzles to fix your problem. Then, just for ****s and giggles, why not put a stock cam back in it, do some dyno runs, then put franks cam back in it and do some more runs and get some definitive proof on whether or not franks cam did nothing for your car.

Also +1 for getting some specs instead of stages. I can understand a tuning stage, because thats about the easiest way to classify levels of map changes. But when cam swaps have been common for nearly as long as automobiles have been around and they used measurments, it would make sense to stick to that

 

[borachris]

From what I've read about Frank he seems like a decent guy offering some good products and services, however no one is perfect, and misunderstandings do happen. Creating a dumb assed thread like this is just a waste of time, no one is going to avoid dealing with Frank because of this thread, if that was the aim.

Like the other guys have said it's pretty simple stuff, a cam alone with maxed out injectors isn't going to yield any gains unless you've got a smokey tune then the extra air could help.

 

[Spdmini]

Sounds like you are tying to blame others for your ignorance. It is called Due Diligence.

Yes. Yes! YES!
Welcome to life, not everything will be explained explicitly.

 

[JFettig]

WOW 3 pages of you guys bashing this guy for being pissed about being misinformed, get a life.

And he did NOT start this thread, it was split from another.

 

[Curious Chris]

Frank06 is a great guy and those who are unhappy with him should contact him directly.

When a member bashes a good guy he will in turn get jumped on which I will not do but it is tempting.

 

[05_new_jetta]

I would go colt. have 2 cars with them and no issues.. no gains but wasnt wanting gains just reliabilty. cams change so much other then how much air the engine gets guys.. even if he is "maxed" out on fuel the right cam (if advertised as such) can feel like it makes more power without making any at all, which is what he is stating. I'm not here to bash anyone besides volkswagon for a bad design.

 

[A5INKY]

...cams change so much other then how much air the engine gets guys.. even if he is "maxed" out on fuel the right cam (if advertised as such) can feel like it makes more power without making any at all, which is what he is stating...

What?

Exactly how is the cam changing anything besides how much air is in the combustion chamber when the boom happens? If injector lobes were different, then of course. But they are not.

 

[Fix_Until_Broke]

..........I find it interesting that Colt nor Frank provide specs. Most high performance cams lead with specs. This silly "stage" rating being used seems geared toward the ricer package builds for kids, and is a bit played out IMHO.

How about marketing actual specs and letting modders have better info to fuel their expectations?

With the OP not providing any data (even vag logs of acceleration vs time on a 3rd gear pull with each cam or a g-tech like thing to back it up) - and I do recognize that the OP's OP was an off hand comment in another thread - he didn't start it, the moderators moved the first 10-15 posts from another thread into this thread.

And on the other hand none of the manufacturers will provide even basic lift and duration specifications (and yes, I've called and asked), not to mention any dyno data, and even further not to mention even what the cam claims to do (it's "better" - better at what?, or it's "billet" - ok, so what?). The best you'll get is "more power".

In most cases a cam change will have compomises, you'll gain top end power, but loose low end or vice versa. Typically the best you can hope for is to gain in one area and not loose any in another. Not often will a cam change improve power everywhere.

A long way to say - "This thread is useless without data!"

 

[oldpoopie]

I would go colt. have 2 cars with them and no issues.. no gains but wasnt wanting gains just reliabilty. cams change so much other then how much air the engine gets guys.. even if he is "maxed" out on fuel the right cam (if advertised as such) can feel like it makes more power without making any at all, which is what he is stating. I'm not here to bash anyone besides volkswagon for a bad design.

The only way something will FEEL like it makes more power is if it actually does or if you have an active imagination. Realists fall into the 1st category. Dudes with big wings on their car fall into the latter.

 

[jjordan11]

Also to add into the equation if there is more air getting into the engine the compression temps will increase. Thus if a cam is putting more air into the combustion chamber it will increase the dynamic CR, thermal efficiency and result in more power with the same amount of fuel.

 

[oldpoopie]

Also to add into the equation if there is more air getting into the engine the compression temps will increase. Thus if a cam is putting more air into the combustion chamber it will increase the dynamic CR, thermal efficiency and result in more power with the same amount of fuel.

Only if there is more fuel to burn

 

[jjordan11]

In simple terms, are you saying that an engine with a compression ratio of say 16:1 will get the same fuel economy as an engine with a CR of 19:1 with everything else the same (in theory)?

 

[VWBeamer]

This. and it's why I find fault with all the cam sellers. To give no hard data, and when the cam doesn't work to say" you should have known" is a cop out.

The sellers don't provide use enough info for us to know..

With the OP not providing any data (even vag logs of acceleration vs time on a 3rd gear pull with each cam or a g-tech like thing to back it up) - and I do recognize that the OP's OP was an off hand comment in another thread - he didn't start it, the moderators moved the first 10-15 posts from another thread into this thread.

And on the other hand none of the manufacturers will provide even basic lift and duration specifications (and yes, I've called and asked), not to mention any dyno data, and even further not to mention even what the cam claims to do (it's "better" - better at what?, or it's "billet" - ok, so what?). The best you'll get is "more power".

In most cases a cam change will have compomises, you'll gain top end power, but loose low end or vice versa. Typically the best you can hope for is to gain in one area and not loose any in another. Not often will a cam change improve power everywhere.

A long way to say - "This thread is useless without data!"

 

[VWDAVID]

I have driven this car and its not under fueled its overfueled for the turbo it has. Not getting into the cam debate just stating my observation.

 

[05_new_jetta]

What?
Exactly how is the cam changing anything besides how much air is in the combustion chamber when the boom happens? If injector lobes were different, then of course. But they are not.

It controls WHEN and HOW MUCH air... If it brings the torque.on sooner its gonna FEEL like it makes more on the butt dyno.. or it could go the other way and feel like ya lost power but you gain it in top end just as someone mentioned. If you swap an aftermarket cam you should feel something. Imho

 

[oilhammer]

Beyond a dyno plot, wouldn't a simple study of the MAF and MAP give enough data to show if a camshaft was allowing more air into the engine?

From what I understand of forced induction diesels, camshaft profile matters less than it would on an old-fashioned naturally aspirated carburetted gasoline engine. Which is probably why you can take a stock 90hp ALH and DOUBLE its output without even touching the camshaft.

 

[faboka]

Beyond a dyno plot, wouldn't a simple study of the MAF and MAP give enough data to show if a camshaft was allowing more air into the engine?

I was thinking this also.

 

[eddie_1]

I always thought misinformation stateside was considered smart advertising. It's like when I'm dealing with Ryan he is trying not to sell me stuff!!!! I had to readjust my brain a bit.

 

[A5INKY]

Beyond a dyno plot, wouldn't a simple study of the MAF and MAP give enough data to show if a camshaft was allowing more air into the engine?

From what I understand of forced induction diesels, camshaft profile matters less than it would on an old-fashioned naturally aspirated carburetted gasoline engine. Which is probably why you can take a stock 90hp ALH and DOUBLE its output without even touching the camshaft.

Due to the many variables involved with MAP data, least of which is not the ECU control of the VNT, I think MAP data would show little. In theory, MAF data should be a better indicator but also has significant other variables that effect readings. Perhaps with some serious data logging that would include ambient temp and barometric pressure (amoung many other variables) it might produce data to compare by.

I do agree that the cam in a TDI is way down on the list of worthwhile mods, especially on lightly modded cars. This is one reason I think the "stage" marketing strategy used by the stateside cam providers is a disservice.

Also, it is not lost on me the dynamics of cam design altering where in the RPM range that power is produced. I just question how much effect is present in a force induced diesel engine with comparably little to no int/exh overlap. NA gas engines can be greatly altered in power character by cams of different lobe separation that actually increase VE over that which 'should' occur from atmospheric pressure alone in certain RPM ranges. Though using this effect produced by narrower lobe seperation angle narrows and rasies RPM of the power band.

Again, I would prefer specs of the cam and not "stage" ratings based on what? Dyno of a car or three? How it feels?

 

[oilhammer]

Agreed. So really, someone needs to invest in one of these:

Then purchase any party's camshaft, measure and map its profile, and post the findings in a public forum. Mystery solved.

 

[JFettig]

OH: why not just use a rotary table on a mill and an indicator?

 

[oilhammer]

OH: why not just use a rotary table on a mill and an indicator?

I don't have one of those, either.

 

[A5INKY]

One would have to have a very accurate way to measure rotation angles and dirctly correlate that data to measured lift. Possible but tough to do manually.

The cam grinders already have this data. Perhaps they should voluntarily post it up for a sticky.

 

[A5INKY]

Plus, shouldn't forget that cams are manufactured and therefore have production dimensional tolerances. Measuring one cam would no be statistically significant in finding either nomiminal dimensions nor production tolerance.

Another reason the cam producers should provided the specs over one of us recreating them.

 

[oldpoopie]

Just send he camshaft to Techtonics Tuning for analysis. They have one of these:
http://powermechanics.com/camdoctor.html

 

[Alex22]

Comp Cams offers camshaft analysis on an Adcole machine, extreme accuracy (0.00001 of an inch), which is great for grind chatter as well as checking the rest of the specs.
http://www.compcams.com/catalog/COMP2011/pdf/COMP_Catalog_2011_422.pdf
It looks like the camshaft manufacturers are sticking to the typical TDI style, secrecy.
~Alex

 

[Franko6]

JEEZ!

The company we work with has a very nice Adcole machine, with computer generated imaging.. a REALLY BIG ONE... they do caterpillar cams too, you know...
That is how the cam design was initiated and what is used to modify the cam to the design we created. This is not a fly-by-night company I chose to work with.


Here is what I'm going to do right now....

nothing

for now.

I have right now about a 1% complaint ratio for my cams. I can live with that...

I am going to enjoy time with my wife and go do something other than TDI stuff until sometime around Tuesday. I would suggest that some of you try the same thing.

After all, it is Christmas time, you know, 'Good Will to Men.. Peace on Earth'; that thing.

I wish you all a very Merry Christmas.

 

[Sky King]

I am going to enjoy time with my wife and go do something other than TDI stuff until sometime around Tuesday. I would suggest that some of you try the same thing.

After all, it is Christmas time, you know, 'Good Will to Men.. Peace on Earth'; that thing.

I wish you all a very Merry Christmas.

Ha ha. Lazy old Gene just removed his old TDI engine from the Bug yesterday. I'm just gettin cranked up. I'm gonna separate the trans. today and have a look at the DMF. I want to install this engine...ONCE. I'm in no hurry though, easy to see. Car's been broke since March.

Merry Christmas all !!

Frank, enjoy your much needed time away !!

 

[A5INKY]

Enjoy your well deserved holiday break Frank.

If I am reading your post right, sounds like you might be willing to share the specs of your cam after you return. I'd wager you have Colt's PD cam specs too...

Just a thought.

Until then, Merry Christmas.

 

[VWBeamer]

No reason not to release the cam specs, anyone that has the ability to make a cam has the ability to copy current grinds.