Okay to sit at light with clutch depressed?

[k1xv]

Yes, on my other car with a torque converter automatic, I shift into neutral as well. Not to save the transmission, but I think it is safer, especially if hit from behind.

 

[macoombi]

I always put mine in neutral and disengage the clutch if I'm going to be a light for a while. I even do that with the wife's autotragic Nissan if I'm not near the front of the line. I do this just because I'm lazy. Probably makes no difference as some of said. Heck, I even engage the e-brake too. Might as well save the headlights and brake lights too (but only if there's another car stopped behind me already).

 

[dubStrom]

The DSG has both clutches fully engaged at the stop light. Two clutches "pressed" the whole time you are sitting there

Bad joke really- Actually...a DSG doesn't have any throwout bearings. No heavy spring assembly to make the contact to the flywheel... Instead, hydraulic force compresses the plates together. But it's in gear when it is stopped at the light. Lifting your foot off the brake just triggers the circuit that hydraulically engages one of the clutches.

But I have replaced clutches on two of my Toyota trucks (about 100k miles). Of course, I change the throwout bearing (and pilot bearing) when I installed the new clutch. But the throwout bearings seemed to have plenty of life left, even though I routinely hold the clutch in while sitting at a stop light. As many folks have stated, it does not matter. Do whichever you want to, as long as you hold the clutch all the way down if you choose to so it does not wear the friction surfaces out.

 

[JB05]

In my limited experience with a manual, a five speed IH truck back in the '70's, the only time I kept my foot on the heavy duty clutch was on an incline waiting for the light to turn green. Had to act fast so as not to roll back which is what I did when I first learned to handle this truck. Air brakes only operate when the engine is running.

 

[vwdiesel101]

people who brag about clutch life are idiots, congratulations your car has no ****ing torque! my girlfriend learned how to drive a standard in like 2 days it really isn't that much of a art lol.

 

[VeeDubTDI]

people who brag about clutch life are idiots, congratulations your car has no ****ing torque! my girlfriend learned how to drive a standard in like 2 days it really isn't that much of a art lol.

Why don't you try communicating a bit more maturely.

 

[Abacus]

Why don't you try communicating a bit more maturely.

Are you kidding, I think that was the limit. I could have sworn I smelled smoke when I read his post.

 

[993er]

Why would you?

Its the surest way to a shorter clutch release bearing life.

 

[JohnWilder]

people who brag about clutch life are idiots, congratulations your car has no ****ing torque! my girlfriend learned how to drive a standard in like 2 days it really isn't that much of a art lol.

No, people who get long clutch life know how to drive a manual properly. That is all.

 

[Rico567]

We have driven manual transmission cars for 50 years, still do, and all cars have been driven by two drivers. Our other car still has one, although we were compelled to buy the DSG on our Passat to get a top trim vehicle. In that half-century, we have replaced one (1) clutch, and that was in a well-used car when we bought it. The rules have been stated at length in this thred:

1. Clutch is fully in or fully out.

2. Do not ride (let left foot rest on) the clutch.

3. At a stop, car goes in neutral and clutch out, unless there is some immediate reason to do otherwise.

These things will minimize clutch wear.

 

[Slurry Pumper]

The sooner you toast your OEM cluitch, the quicker you can install a clutch with a smf in its place and get a short throw shifter in its place. Well the short throw thing really isn't really related but a while your at it type of thing.

After you toast the first clutch however, thats when you drive like you care.

 

[40X40]

<snip> Air brakes only operate when the engine is running.

Boy, that revelation is gonna surprise a lot of folks that actually drive trucks with AIRBRAKES.

Bill

 

[Rapidrob]

For what it is worth, I started driving a clutch car in 1968. I have had a throw-out bearing fail because of me holding the clutch in while at stop lights in the city.
After that, I have always put the car into neutral at the stop lights,signs.
I have always had a clutch vehicle for my personal use since then and I will continue to not hold the clutch down at all stops.
My two cents.

 

[Genesis]

people who brag about clutch life are idiots, congratulations your car has no ****ing torque! my girlfriend learned how to drive a standard in like 2 days it really isn't that much of a art lol.

Meh, says the guy with nozzles in his car since before the warranty expired, now at 200k on the clock, and on the stock clutch.

Torque, she's got.

 

[Tom Brown]

This entire *thread* is about shaving the odds... since the average clutch throwout bearing is gonna outlast us all.

I've replaced a few throw-out bearings in my day. Never on a VW or Japanese car, though.

I wonder if the concern for bearing life comes from the North American vehicle owners from decades past when the bearing would be completely shot after 60~70K miles?

The VW gear box is built with tons more longevity than the old Borg-Warner gear boxes of old.

 

[FlyTDI Guy]

Like above, I've been driving clutches for over 40 years and my habits are definitely old-school. I used to work in the clutch business and, in those days, bearing failures were not all that uncommon.

 

[Dieselducky]

I always keep it in gear and hold the clutch down....makes for a quick getaway if you about to get rear ended which has saved me a few times..i changed out my first clutch at 560k the clutch just started to slip....no issues with the bearing....actually....all my manual cars are high mileage and non have had any throw-out bearing issues either...drive more worry less i say!!!

 

[Louis_TDI]

Defensive driving schools teaches you to be ready with 1st gear at a stop light not to get rear ended this is how I learnt and how I'v been driving for over 10year with the same car with no issues my sister dose the same and we both have golfs

 

[ezshift5]

.....used to work in the clutch business and, in those days, bearing failures were not all that uncommon.

.....my first (and last) three year old 'Vette had a noisy throw-out bearing.

Never had a problem (and sold it at a HUGE profit > circa 4 years later. ...........

it's all good.

ez

 

[VeeDubTDI]

The sooner you toast your OEM cluitch, the quicker you can install a clutch with a smf in its place and get a short throw shifter in its place. Well the short throw thing really isn't really related but a while your at it type of thing.

After you toast the first clutch however, thats when you drive like you care.

And the sooner you separate several hundred dollars from your wallet for no particular reason.

 

[TurboDieselPoint]

Here's another angle on the issue I have thought of...it may be pure untrue and speculated BS, but...

If one makes a habit of holding in the clutch pedal all the time, that means the pressure plate springs are very regularly being stretched to the disengaged position for extended periods of time. Perhaps over time this could reduce the clamping force of the pressure plate, causing clutch slip and requiring a premature installation of a new clutch kit.

Just a thought.

 

[bollweevil]

It is common sense that the less you use your clutch, the longer it will last.

How you drive is personal preference, and you can shift and go pretty fast whether car is in neutral or not. I'm sure a split second won't matter much and if some truck is coming at you, you could get nervous, release clutch and stall out !!

Replaced my VW clutch at 160k. Bent fork, smoked t/o, trashed p-plate & disc.
Installed all including flywheel & slave. Worst clutch components I have ever seen.

Now I'm relying on my plastic t/o to last a long, long time !!

 

[icecap]

Interesting post as I've just read this entire thread. One thing everyone here missed is that if you think it through when you load a release bearing to disengage a clutch, what are you ultimately thrusting against? The answer is the thrust face of a crankshaft against the thrust face of a main bearing. The only thing that separates metal to metal contact is a thin oil film.

I've been retired for a year from a 46 year career as a wrench on transport trucks, construction machinery and even did a 5 year stint at a Ford dealership. On 3406 CAT engines I have witnessed crankshaft thrust bearing failures probably caused by excessive holding of the clutch released or a clutch that has been badly out of adjustment for a long time so that it could not release completely. On this engine the 2 thrust bearings are "C" shaped and held in a machined groove in the block by the main bearing cap. The thrusts bearings do not form a complete circle and only have an upper. I have seen the one that carries the clutch release load wear so badly that is falls out of its groove into the oil pan. What happens next is that you have so much end play that the opposite thrust falls out giving you more than 1/2" of crankshaft endplay and a clutch that can no longer release properly and some major engine damage.

I've driven standards since I was 16 and have always engaged the clutch in Neutral when stopped with the exception of a brief stop start. Knowing what is going on inside is what caused me make my decision. There is no right or wrong only consequences and my example of consequences is that I just recently did the brakes on my car for the first time in 75,000 miles. I'm always amazed at the people that blow past me because I start slowing down by coasting and gearing down when approaching a red light when they have to brake aggressively to come to a stop. These must the same drivers that go 40 miles an hour through a parking lot and angrily blare their horn as you have the audacity to slowly back out of your stall and get in their way.

 

[jjblbi]

I have to admit I am spoiled by the last two DSGs. I never sit with a manual vehicle in gear. Always press to the floor, put in gear and go. Get on it and off it; match revs when you can. I've never had to replace a clutch in any vehicle purchased new, usually 200+k miles when i get rid of them. YMMV, John

 

[mtbr297]

Safety is the reason to put the car in neutral. Any safe driving class will teach you that.

 

[AndyBees]

I drive more and worry less. It must be working because the last clutch I replaced was at 337,000 miles and the bearing was still fine when I replaced it.

So, the correct answer is to drive more and worry less.

Agree ...............
But, just in case someone may be wondering what I do, I am a neutral guy at the traffic light! (pressing the clutch and back pain are not compatible)

 

[turbovan+tdi]

Sitting at the light in first gear with the clutch depressed is a safety hazard IMHO... if your foot slips you are going to suddenly lurch into traffic.

Sitting at the light in neutral with the clutch depressed just causes wear and tear on the clutch release bearing *and* the crank thrust bearing. The car is already in neutral... no need to also depress the clutch. Again, IMHO.

My theory is: for maximum life of both...depress the clutch as little as possible.

Not sure in the US but in England, it was illegal to put the car in neutral at a stop light because if you have to move out of the way quickly, you can't react fast enough. You will fail the driving test if you do that. Same reason you shouldn't sit at a stop sign/light in neutral on a bike, if you have to make an emergency reaction, you can't. Same reason you leave enough space between you and the car in front so you can get out of the way if you have too.

Quick google search it is illegal in some US states-

http://skeptics.stackexchange.com/q...-jurisdiction-to-be-in-neutral-at-a-red-light

A stock clutch will NOT wear faster sitting at a stop light or kill the throwout bearing or wear out the tension of the fingers, but a heavy duty version that is harder to push can wear the thrust bearing.

If you sit at an intersection with the car in gear and the clutch depressed, and another car bumps you from the rear, your foot will come off the clutch pedal and you will lurch forward from the impact of the car hitting you, and then continue to move forward under engine power. And if you had the wheels turned at all, you might go into oncoming traffic.

You are safer to have the vehicle in neutral, and your right foot covering the brake.

See above. If your sitting at a light/stop sign with the wheels turned, you need to learn how to drive.

Here's another angle on the issue I have thought of...it may be pure untrue and speculated BS, but...

If one makes a habit of holding in the clutch pedal all the time, that means the pressure plate springs are very regularly being stretched to the disengaged position for extended periods of time. Perhaps over time this could reduce the clamping force of the pressure plate, causing clutch slip and requiring a premature installation of a new clutch kit.

Just a thought.

Nope, lol.

Safety is the reason to put the car in neutral. Any safe driving class will teach you that.

Then they are a massive fail and shouldn't be teaching anyone how to drive.

 

[DPM]

http://www.iam-bristol.org.uk/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=225&Itemid=1

it's not "illegal" to put the car in neutral. That's rubbish. Driving Test theory has flexibility- at the front of a queue or while waiting for another car to approach behind? be ready to move off. But stationary car in front and behind? Neutral.
Each way offers the most protection for that situation.

 

[WrEkkED]

Would do whatever's comfortable. Really a non-issue.

 

[VeeDubTDI]

http://www.iam-bristol.org.uk/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=225&Itemid=1

it's not "illegal" to put the car in neutral. That's rubbish. Driving Test theory has flexibility- at the front of a queue or while waiting for another car to approach behind? be ready to move off. But stationary car in front and behind? Neutral.
Each way offers the most protection for that situation.

It depends on where you live. In some states in the US, it is indeed against the law to be stopped at a red light with the car in neutral and your foot off the clutch. They can't easily enforce that and it may not be the best practice for all situations, but it doesn't change the fact that it is illegal.

As mentioned by turbovan+tdi, you will fail the driver's test for doing that in some places. People may or may not agree with that, but that's the way it is.