New 5th Gear Choice

IndigoBlueWagon

TDIClub Enthusiast, Principal IDParts, Vendor , w/
Joined
Aug 16, 2004
Location
South of Boston
TDI
'97 Passat, '99.5 Golf, '02 Jetta Wagon, '15 GSW
Funny, driving home I was wondering where IBW would top out. I've had it up to 125 in the past when it was making more power, and it got there pretty quickly. I suspect this gearing would help, and it would get to 120-130 without a lot of trouble. That would be around 4000 RPM, before power drops off too much.
 

Rrusse11

Veteran Member
Joined
Jan 23, 2014
Location
PA Deutsch Country
TDI
2002 Golf, 5spd; 05 Jeep CRD
In order to get beyond 130mph with you definitely need at least .658 fifth gearing I would think.
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

With my .717 and 25.3"od tires, I'd be at 4200rpm @ 130. Haven't had the chance,
or nerve, to try it yet. Gotta' get out west somewhere. I've got the grunt
with my mods and tune, I can be at a 100 ez doing 3200rpm, car's really
starting to pull. I've been thinking about getting my tuner to delete the
speed and rpm limiters, Ve? Should hit 150 at 4850.

Interesting to note IBWs pic, I'm at nearly the same revs with a correct speedo, 2400rpm=74mph.
The difference in tire size makes my speedo read true, 24.9 vs 25.3.
 

red16vdub

Veteran Member
Joined
Aug 26, 2013
Location
(617) City of CHAMPIONS
TDI
03 JSW 5spd
With my .717 and 25.3"od tires, I'd be at 4200rpm @ 130. Haven't had the chance,
or nerve, to try it yet. Gotta' get out west somewhere. I've got the grunt
with my mods and tune, I can be at a 100 ez doing 3200rpm, car's really
starting to pull. I've been thinking about getting my tuner to delete the
speed and rpm limiters, Ve? Should hit 150 at 4850.

Interesting to note IBWs pic, I'm at nearly the same revs with a correct speedo, 2400rpm=74mph.
The difference in tire size makes my speedo read true, 24.9 vs 25.3.


Pulling anywhere near 4800 rpm in fifth require some power though. I’m not aware of any rev limiters with the Ve tdi’s .


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
 

Rrusse11

Veteran Member
Joined
Jan 23, 2014
Location
PA Deutsch Country
TDI
2002 Golf, 5spd; 05 Jeep CRD
Pulling anywhere near 4800 rpm in fifth require some power though. I’m not aware of any rev limiters with the Ve tdi’s .
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


My "Ve" reference is a term I've run into here on the forums referencing
the speed limiter, circa 132mph. The ECU cuts the power at that point.
There is also a rev limiter ~4500rpm redline. Both of these can be reset by
a good tuner. Eg. remove the speed limit, and bump the rev limit to 6000rpm.
Both options can definitely be considered hazardous to health and engine
well being. Aproach with caution!

I've been caught once or twice pushing
the rev limit, car goes into limp mode. Never tried to push 132mph, yet.
With both limiters removed, and under appropriate conditions, I believe
I could hit 150mph. Lol, I'd only do it once. I do know the car feels
comfortable at a 100, eminently sustainable for a cannonball run.


Interestingly with IBWs .700 5th, the numbers only vary by1-2mph.
Change tire size and they're , for all practical purposes, identical.


http://johnmaherracing.com/calculators/gear-ratio-calculator/


I used the above to plan my 5th gear swap, and found the #s generated
to be very good.
 

IndigoBlueWagon

TDIClub Enthusiast, Principal IDParts, Vendor , w/
Joined
Aug 16, 2004
Location
South of Boston
TDI
'97 Passat, '99.5 Golf, '02 Jetta Wagon, '15 GSW
I had a 6000 RPM tune in IBW for years. On the track I'd go til the tach stops (5400 RPM), count to three, then shift. No limp mode. But lots of heat. Had one in the Golf, too: Here's a dyno with the HP and Torque numbers crossing at 5200 RPM:



I've never heard of a speed limiter on our cars/engines.

The difference between .717 and .700 isn't that big. Of course it increases as speeds rise, but with the .717 2600 RPM is an indicated 78-9, and with the .700 it's 82-3. Same tires. Our speedos don't have a lot of markings, but I'd say I pick up 3 MPH at 2400, and 4 at 2600. I love running at 2400 on trips so getting an indicated 75-6 at those revs is perfect for me.

Driving yesterday I was also able to easily run at 45 in 5th, 1400 RPM. Of course I'd downshift to accelerate more than very gently, but I'd do that anyway. So far I really like this gear.

I still have the .717 in my worn out transmission, might put that in the '99.5.
 
Last edited:

chuckthemech

Well-known member
Joined
Jun 18, 2006
Location
Skook, PA
TDI
2001 Jetta GLS
3.16 rp

I have about the same setup as Russel. I started out with a .681(?) and it was tall. It later exploded with my kid driving... I then installed a rebuilt O2J/3.16 RP/Wavetrac and stock 5th. With my modes, the ring gear helped thru-out the driving range, not just at cruise. The taller RP was much, or at least more, nicer than the 5th only change. I also drive around 75 indicated (71 actual) and I think my setup would support a slightly taller 5th on flat interstate driving but no so much here in the mountains. Overall, not worth the $'s to try.
 

IndigoBlueWagon

TDIClub Enthusiast, Principal IDParts, Vendor , w/
Joined
Aug 16, 2004
Location
South of Boston
TDI
'97 Passat, '99.5 Golf, '02 Jetta Wagon, '15 GSW
I agree the 3.16 R&P is the best option. I had one in my Golf briefly, then killed the car so I didn't get to drive it much. i'd do it again but they're no longer available, and it's a much more expensive mod than the 5th gear only. I think the .717 with a 3.16 would be the best of both worlds.
 

Rrusse11

Veteran Member
Joined
Jan 23, 2014
Location
PA Deutsch Country
TDI
2002 Golf, 5spd; 05 Jeep CRD

300D

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Joined
Jun 8, 2018
Location
Coast of Maine
TDI
2003 Jetta Wagon TDI, 5-speed, 270K
Finally got the 0.70 installed yesterday. Drove it back from the shop this AM. Sorry for the crappy pic, very bright day and apparently my phone was obsessed with the boost gauge.


I think this is just about perfect for my needs. I usually run at 75 indicated on trips which is right around 2400 RPM, about a 200 RPM drop compared to stock ALH gearing. If I want to go faster 90 MPH is about 2900.


How much was it to have it installed by your trusted guru?
 

sriracha

Veteran Member
Joined
Oct 8, 2014
Location
805
TDI
2005 Jetta Wagon 5mt, 1982 Rabbit truck (gas)
Are the stock 5th gears different between an ALH and a BEW?

My BEW wagon cruises right along in 5th going an indicated 75 mph at 2500 rpm. I wouldn’t mind a taller gear, but 75/2500 seems like a sweet spot for the car. Plus, it keeps me out of trouble on the 101. So many CHP’s.
 

Rrusse11

Veteran Member
Joined
Jan 23, 2014
Location
PA Deutsch Country
TDI
2002 Golf, 5spd; 05 Jeep CRD
Are the stock 5th gears different between an ALH and a BEW?

My BEW wagon cruises right along in 5th going an indicated 75 mph at 2500 rpm. I wouldn’t mind a taller gear, but 75/2500 seems like a sweet spot for the car. Plus, it keeps me out of trouble on the 101. So many CHP’s.

It would depend on your tranny code, but you could have a .744 5th.
Reference this source that lists the gear ratios. There's a listing for
EUH & CDN that appears to be for 2002-2007 gearboxes that is "almost"
identical to the reference for TDIs.


https://www.zelek.com/diagram_charts/diagramlist.htm
 

rwthomas1

Veteran Member
Joined
Oct 16, 2002
Location
Wakefield, RI
TDI
'03 Jetta
Hello,
I finally got to the 5th gear swap today. Not too bad. Heat the gears to 250-300* with a heat gun and they just slid off with a small prybar. I didn't remove the shift selector adjustment thingy. Same going back on, just heat them up, grab them with a glove and push on. The synchro/selector gear only went on halfway, but the bolt pulled it the rest of the way on easily. Heavy leather glove and fiddling with the shift fork is required, but not bad at all.

So what do I think of the 717? It's great. My commute is @45 miles one way, 50-65mph for half and 70-80mph for the rest. The 717 is a subtle difference, but the ride is noticeably quieter, less "buzzy". It's not too big of a jump that I feel I'm downshifting a whole lot sooner, nor does it feel like it's lugging at say 45-50mph in 5th. The 700 might be slightly better, but was a good bit more coin. I think the 717 aftermarket is a great bargain upgrade.

Keep in mind I'm in fairly flat southern NE. If I drove a lot in real mountains, I'd probably want a 6speed. But for what I paid, and the effort to install, I'm quite pleased.
 

sriracha

Veteran Member
Joined
Oct 8, 2014
Location
805
TDI
2005 Jetta Wagon 5mt, 1982 Rabbit truck (gas)
It would depend on your tranny code, but you could have a .744 5th.
Reference this source that lists the gear ratios. There's a listing for
EUH & CDN that appears to be for 2002-2007 gearboxes that is "almost"
identical to the reference for TDIs.


https://www.zelek.com/diagram_charts/diagramlist.htm
Thanks for the link. You are correct! I just checked, I have the EUH 5-speed transmission. According to the chart, it has the 0.744 5th gear.
 

rwthomas1

Veteran Member
Joined
Oct 16, 2002
Location
Wakefield, RI
TDI
'03 Jetta
An Update:
I drive pretty much the same route and mileage every week. I have been tracking the mpg carefully since the 5th gear swap. Pre-gear swap mpg was 46.7, averaged over 6 tanks. The 717 gear has resulted in 48.1mpg over 6 tanks, average. That'll take a while to pay off the cost of the gears, but an interesting data point nonetheless.
 

Rrusse11

Veteran Member
Joined
Jan 23, 2014
Location
PA Deutsch Country
TDI
2002 Golf, 5spd; 05 Jeep CRD
rw,
Close to a 3% improvement, not bad at all. My take is that FE isn't much of a
reason to change the 5th; rpm range at speed and driveability are.
 

rwthomas1

Veteran Member
Joined
Oct 16, 2002
Location
Wakefield, RI
TDI
'03 Jetta
Rrusse11,
I agree 100%, I cruise 75-80mph and the rpm difference is very nice. I'll take the minor fuel saving though...
 

IndigoBlueWagon

TDIClub Enthusiast, Principal IDParts, Vendor , w/
Joined
Aug 16, 2004
Location
South of Boston
TDI
'97 Passat, '99.5 Golf, '02 Jetta Wagon, '15 GSW
That fuel savings may or may not be real. Lots of variables that are hard to control: fuel quality, extent to which the fuel was winterized, weather during the time the tank was used, differences in traffic, etc.

Regardless, I like the .700. Best 5th I've had in the car.
 

IndigoBlueWagon

TDIClub Enthusiast, Principal IDParts, Vendor , w/
Joined
Aug 16, 2004
Location
South of Boston
TDI
'97 Passat, '99.5 Golf, '02 Jetta Wagon, '15 GSW
I had a .717 for years. Liked that very much, too. I still have it in an worn out transmission, so it might end up in another TDI yet. I also have a .717 in my B4, which I think is ideal for that car. The .700 might be too tall.
 
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