New 5th Gear Choice

Rrusse11

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2002 Golf, 5spd; 05 Jeep CRD
"One of the things I miss most about my mk6 is that 6-speed transmission."
Siracha

I too had a MkVI with the 6spd. I prefer my 02J, better ratios.
My .717 5th is a proper overdrive IMO, leastways with my setup.
 

Rrusse11

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PA Deutsch Country
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2002 Golf, 5spd; 05 Jeep CRD
http://johnmaherracing.com/calculators/gear-ratio-calculator/


Here's an excellent calculator for working out what various gear ratios do for speed and revs.
 

sriracha

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805
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2005 Jetta Wagon 5mt, 1982 Rabbit truck (gas)
I too had a MkVI with the 6spd. I prefer my 02J, better ratios.
My .717 5th is a proper overdrive IMO, leastways with my setup.

I never directly compared the two and at this point have kinda forgotten, in what way do you prefer the 02J ratios?
 

Rrusse11

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PA Deutsch Country
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2002 Golf, 5spd; 05 Jeep CRD
I never directly compared the two and at this point have kinda forgotten, in what way do you prefer the 02J ratios?
I just felt the 1-6 gears were unnecessarily close. With my admittedly heavily modded ALH the spread between gears is better. If we had no
speed limit autobahns, where you could cruise at 100+mph, then perhaps
it would be usefull. In 6th at highway speeds of 70, I feel that really the motor wasn't working enough.

Like IBW, I actually prefer the driving experience of the ALH. Simpler,
easier to work on, more durable, and much cheaper to mod. Hell, even I can manage some of the mechanicals myself. I like being in contact with
the road. Lol, I suppose the kids would call me "retro".

Your Mileage WILL Vary.
 

Rrusse11

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2002 Golf, 5spd; 05 Jeep CRD
Douglas,

Let us know what you think. I have no experience with a PD. I do find myself using 4th more cruising the secondary roads at 55mph.
I can run 5th, but for passing, I'll hit 4th.

Cheers,
R*2
 

PakProtector

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AnnArbor, MI
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Mk.4 and the Cummins-es
Douglas,

Let us know what you think. I have no experience with a PD. I do find myself using 4th more cruising the secondary roads at 55mph.
I can run 5th, but for passing, I'll hit 4th.

Cheers,
R*2
Will do. Heck, I'll drop by and let you drive it...meet me at Dutch haven, I'll be grabbing a Shoo Fly Pie...:) They don't seem very available in MI.
cheers,
Douglas
 

Rrusse11

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PA Deutsch Country
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2002 Golf, 5spd; 05 Jeep CRD
Shoe Fly Pie, unique to the area, basically molasses in a crust. That and sauerkraut are the 2 things that stand out to me as local specialty foods.
Lol, neither appeal to me, but hey, there's no accounting for tastes.

If you get close to my area, drop me a line. {:eek:)
 

boertje

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Coeur d'Alene, ID
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'01, '01, '03 - TDIs all.
Cruise will work on an ALH.

Where did you find the .700? I ran a .717 for years and liked it, had a .681 before. .681 wasn't suitable for me. .700 would be sweet.
When I had a five speed in my bug I installed a .681. I found it a little too tall for my liking and would have preferred the .717.
 

IndigoBlueWagon

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'97 Passat, '99.5 Golf, '02 Jetta Wagon, '15 GSW
I've had both in my car. Same impression of the .681 as you. I just wish the .717 is a bit taller, especially when running at 80+. That's why I wonder if the .700 may be the sweet spot for road trips.
 

VW Ron

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Sep 25, 2019
Location
Troutman, NC
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2003 Jetta TDI
I just found this RPM Chart on an old trend looking at the .681 and .658. Well the .681 is no longer available but it gives some interesting numbers on the .658.

In my opinion 1600 RPM at 53mph would not be lugging the engine at all . Sure you would not want to slam it but it should be fine if your just light with the go pedal. I also think 73mph 2200RPM would be in the sweet spot. Please feel free to comment.

Thanks
Ron

Sorry for the cut and past job but it goes as follows:


RPM4th MPH RPM5th StockMPH .681MPH .658MPH

1000 21.25 1000 29.39 32.11 33.23
1100 23.38 1100 32.33 35.32 36.56
1200 25.50 1200 35.27 38.53 39.88
1300 27.63 1300 38.21 41.74 43.20
1400 29.75 1400 41.15 44.95 46.53
1500 31.88 1500 44.09 48.17 49.85
1600 34.00 1600 47.03 51.38 53.17
1700 36.13 1700 49.96 54.59 56.50
1800 38.25 1800 52.90 57.80 59.82
1900 40.38 1900 55.84 61.01 63.14
2000 42.50 2000 58.78 64.22 66.46
2100 44.63 2100 61.72 67.43 69.79
2200 46.75 2200 64.66 70.64 73.11
2300 48.88 2300 67.60 73.85 76.43
2400 51.00 2400 70.54 77.06 79.76
2500 53.13 2500 73.48 80.28 83.08
2600 55.25 2600 76.42 83.49 86.40
2700 57.38 2700 79.36 86.70 89.73
2800 59.50 2800 82.30 89.91 93.05
2900 61.63 2900 85.23 93.12 96.37
3000 63.75 3000 88.17 96.33 99.70
 
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IndigoBlueWagon

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'97 Passat, '99.5 Golf, '02 Jetta Wagon, '15 GSW
Just ordered the 0.700. I have a 0.717 in an older transmission that I was going to put in the transmission that's currently in my Wagon, but the step up was small enough (it's a BEW transmission) that I hadn't bothered. But I miss it. the 0.700 will be a better step up. I typically run at an indicated 75-78 on trips, which should be right around 2400 RPM with the 0.700. Looking forward to that.
 

Rrusse11

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PA Deutsch Country
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2002 Golf, 5spd; 05 Jeep CRD
"I typically run at an indicated 75-78 on trips, which should be right around 2400 RPM with the 0.700." IBW

With my oversize tires, IIRC 25.3" vs 24.9" stock diameter, I am doing
75mph when my speedo reads 75 (referenced with GPS). With my 02J, sorry can't recall what exact code my tranny is, I am doing that 75 mph
at 2400rpm with a .717 5th.

Had a discussion with Jeff of RC at what he felt was the optimum revs were for the ALH; "2500rpm". My butt dyno tells me 2400-2600. IBW likes 2400, hey, sounds like we're in the same "sweet spot" ball park. {:eek:)

Your Mileage WILL Vary
 

IndigoBlueWagon

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I agree that 2400-2600 is the sweet spot. With the .717 and stock diameter tires, 2600 was just under indicated 80, or about 76 actual. I would usually run at 75, which was right around 2500 RPM. But as time has gone by I've realized that people drive faster than they used to. Driving across Michigan sticking at 75 is risking getting run over. 80-85 is better. That's why I want taller gears.
 

Rrusse11

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PA Deutsch Country
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2002 Golf, 5spd; 05 Jeep CRD
"sticking at 75 is risking getting run over." IBW

I hear ya'! Most of my long distance miles out west have been towing my
teardrop. I found that with a .658 it was loosing torque around 65, a sane
speed with a 1200# load, 2 people, a couple of dogs and miscellaneous accoutrements. Now with the .717, no danger of lugging and spiking EGTs.


Turbo obviously plays into the above equation as well, my 17/22 doesn't hit
it's straps till the 22-2400rpm range. On good roads and no traffic I have to
watch my speed with the camper. At 75 I can blip the throttle and I'm at 80
to pass that big truck, hills or the Rockies? no problem. Mileage?, lol, I don't care after
chatting to others in the campgrounds. Almost universally they are in single
digits.
 

MAXRPM

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00 Jetta and 99.5 Golf, 2015 Passat TDI,BMW 2
Maybe it is just me but buying a 717 gear, might as well keep the stock 5th I believe is .734, you may see a drop by not a whole lot, why spend $ if there is a tiny drop of rpm, vendors used to sell .681 that would've been the way to go.
 

ToxicDoc

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2001 Jetta, S7, .216
Maybe it is just me but buying a 717 gear, might as well keep the stock 5th I believe is .734, you may see a drop by not a whole lot, why spend $ if there is a tiny drop of rpm, vendors used to sell .681 that would've been the way to go.
stock is .756 in the US
 

IndigoBlueWagon

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Maybe it is just me but buying a 717 gear, might as well keep the stock 5th I believe is .734, you may see a drop by not a whole lot, why spend $ if there is a tiny drop of rpm, vendors used to sell .681 that would've been the way to go.
Doesn't much matter, since both are NLA. But the .71 was really nice. I miss it.
 

rwthomas1

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Oct 16, 2002
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Wakefield, RI
TDI
'03 Jetta
I have followed this thread closely. My new job includes a 50 minute commute each way at 60-80mph. The 03 Jetta I drive feels like she needs slightly longer legs for comfortable 80mph cruise. Just ordered the .717 gear (aftermarket) from Darkside, $235.00 shipped to my door. I just couldn't say no.....
 

Rrusse11

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2002 Golf, 5spd; 05 Jeep CRD
I have followed this thread closely. My new job includes a 50 minute commute each way at 60-80mph. The 03 Jetta I drive feels like she needs slightly longer legs for comfortable 80mph cruise. Just ordered the .717 gear (aftermarket) from Darkside, $235.00 shipped to my door. I just couldn't say no.....

Betting here that it's a Masiero gear. Let me know if it is, that's what I got
on Ebay.uk over 2 years ago. Excellent quality IMO.
Cheers!
 

Moosenuckle

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03 tdi ,Mk2 aba swap w/charger; 97 Dodge cummins 5spd
I got a .658 with a 17/22 stg 5 RC tune. Yea you need to do 70-85 with this gear. It will for sure lug the motor and roll some serious coal. Trust me I know. I would like to try something like .700 or something. Differently do a lot of 4th -5th shifting.
 

IndigoBlueWagon

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I imagine that pulling from less than 2K RPM in 5th with a 17/22 would make some serious smoke. Don't miss that. I'm looking forward to the .700.
 

Rrusse11

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2002 Golf, 5spd; 05 Jeep CRD
I got a .658 with a 17/22 stg 5 RC tune. Yea you need to do 70-85 with this gear. It will for sure lug the motor and roll some serious coal. Trust me I know. I would like to try something like .700 or something. Differently do a lot of 4th -5th shifting.

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/VW-TRANS...ake:VW&hash=item287bb07a5a:g:8ZUAAOSw68ZcmPN2

Save the .658 set, you'll be able to sell it here to someone who thinks they need it. If you don't have the original 5th thrust washer for the .717, you may need to source one. IIRC the .658 uses a smaller one.

In fairness to the Darkside prices, the aftermarket special includes a thrust waher, gasket, and end seal. And with "Black Monday" sale,
the two prices are nearly identical,,,,,,,,, go figger, ACT NOW lol.

https://www.darksidedevelopments.co.uk/products/5-speed-02j-02a-02b-02c-02z-592-622-658-and-717-5th-gear-sets.html

With my 17/22 I find .717 is the perfect gear for 4th-5th. IBW, with I believe a smaller, lower rev spooling turbo, will likely be happy with a .700.


 

PakProtector

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Mk.4 and the Cummins-es
The one I got from those folks came with the washer. Also, I believe you can talk them out of charging VAT...:)
cheers,
Douglas
 

Rrusse11

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PA Deutsch Country
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2002 Golf, 5spd; 05 Jeep CRD
"The one I got from those folks came with the washer." PakProtector

Ahh, forgot about that. The tech who installed my .658 was pleased to see
I had the washer, but he said no biggie, he could turn/machine the old one down from the .756 original.
It's all good whichever supplier you choose.

When I returned 4-5months later with the .717, his comment was "Yeah,
read the numbers and ratios, then go down a step."
He installed my Peloquin LSD as well, transmissions are all he works on.
 

VW Ron

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Troutman, NC
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2003 Jetta TDI
Well after a lot of thought and research I decided to go with the .658 and for my driving conditions I am very happy with my choice. The car is absolutely wonderful on the interstate and noise reduction is very noticeable.

In my opinion the gear is usable at 50 MPH however to be honest you will need to be traveling at 55 if you are going to take on hills and maintain speed. If your traveling at 50 and come up to a hill you will be downshifting into 4th or you will lug the engine. I know a lot of people shy away from this gear due to possible lugging however if you just keep in mind that this is more of a true overdrive gear you should not have any problems.

If you re looking for hard acceleration between 50 and 65 or if most of your driving is under 50 mph please do yourself a favor and stay stock as you will find yourself in 4th a lot more.

If your driving is between 50 and 80 and your after fuel economy I highly recommend the .658. Just use a little common sense when your driving under 65 and downshift to 4th if you need pass someone. As for the way I drive I see little change in shift patterns from stock and the engine does not show any signs of lugging until you drop below 1200rpm at around 40mph.
 
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IndigoBlueWagon

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Finally got the 0.70 installed yesterday. Drove it back from the shop this AM. Sorry for the crappy pic, very bright day and apparently my phone was obsessed with the boost gauge.


I think this is just about perfect for my needs. I usually run at 75 indicated on trips which is right around 2400 RPM, about a 200 RPM drop compared to stock ALH gearing. If I want to go faster 90 MPH is about 2900.
 
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