Mazda SkyActiv Diesel Engine

[VWBeamer]

I hate NASCAR. It's a fraud. It's boring.

But I don't think it's fair to call the fans dumb rednecks.

I can name some white collar sports that are just as dumb and even more boring. Golf? Tennis? Not much fun to watch either.

To be fair, NASCAR is for the dumb rednecks that think that the stickers applied to the spec body actually mean something.

 

[oilhammer]

Ford had a Focus diesel right up the street at the training center here, too. They also spent (along with Navistar) a bunch of money developing the 4.5L V6 Powerstroke for the F150. Haven't seen either of those in our showrooms either.

Like I said, when they are here, in the showrooms, actually being SOLD, then so be it. Until then, I'm a native Missourian... you'll have to "Show Me"

BTW, the GM guy at ASE HQ a few months ago when I was there insisted the Cruze and ATS will be here with diesels, too. An actual GM employee, card-carryin' and everything. Seen any yet? I haven't.

 

[VWBeamer]

true, true. The Cruze was a 2013 model, now they say 2014 model.

 

[oilhammer]

true, true. The Cruze was a 2013 model, now they say 2014 model.

And in 2014... it will be: A) 2015, B) vaporware, C) in the showrooms. I am hoping for C.

 

[d-man]

Oilhammer, Ford does make a small diesel, it's in the euro Ford Ranger.
Toyota making a Push rod V-8 is great. If the Tundra came with a Push rod V-8 I would consider purchasing one, it a more robust work engine.
Overhead cams (in trucks) are for posers.
The CX-5 diesel if it ever comes out will be the wifes next vehicle.
If VW ever decides to bring the Amarok to Canada I will sell my Jetta and Duramax.

I believe Mazda wants to bring the diesel engine here. First thing they need to do is figure out the cold starting issues. The variable valve timing on the exhaust side for cold starts is not overcoming the low compression, the charge temperatures are a little low and as a result un burnt diesel is making its way in to the oil. I think they may need to run an intake heater similar to that of the duramax. If the cold start issue is not addressed that engine will not be sold here.

 

[oilhammer]

Yes, Ford makes diesels. So does Mitsubishi, Hyundai, Nissan, Toyota, GM, Subaru, Fiat, etc. They don't sell them HERE. That is the issue.

OHC no good for trucks, eh? I'll pit the Toyota 4.7L V8 for longevity against ANY domestic V8 made ever, pushrods or not. That is a good, tough, reliable engine. The 5.7L is too new to have any good data on, but the 4.7L (which is based on a design that dates back to 1990) is a tried-and-true layout, one of the best V8 engines ever. You'd be amazed how many 300k+ mile LS400s there are out there that run like they day they were new.

 

[IndigoBlueWagon]

I met a marketing employee from Audi at the Boston Auto Show four years ago (not an auto show employee, a real Audi employee) who swore that Audi would have diesels in every car but the A8 by 2011. See any Audis with diesels yet? And now they're saying they're going in a bunch of cars in 2014. I'm with oilhammer on this one. Seeing is believing.

The owner of our local VW dealer was here last week and he said that VW had the diesel Tiguan scheduled for production in '09, then backed out. There's another.

 

[tdi90hp]

Yes, Ford makes diesels. So does Mitsubishi, Hyundai, Nissan, Toyota, GM, Subaru, Fiat, etc. They don't sell them HERE. That is the issue.

OHC no good for trucks, eh? I'll pit the Toyota 4.7L V8 for longevity against ANY domestic V8 made ever, pushrods or not. That is a good, tough, reliable engine. The 5.7L is too new to have any good data on, but the 4.7L (which is based on a design that dates back to 1990) is a tried-and-true layout, one of the best V8 engines ever. You'd be amazed how many 300k+ mile LS400s there are out there that run like they day they were new.

tonnes and tonnes of 300K (miles) chev short block pickups running around.....there was a guy that came to my door to fix something at the house with aan 02 silverado with just under 700,000kms on it....original motor....a couple of transmissions....

 

[tdi90hp]

Diesel 2.2 SE w/ 6 speed MT: From £22,545 (equals $36,425.96 US Dollar)

Diesel 2.2 Sport w/ AT From £26,695 (equals $43,010.98 US Dollar)

Prices above are without options...

I hope the prices aren't that high for the US market. It's going to have to drop at least 30% or I'm no longer in the market

you know as well as I do they CANT price in NA like that or it's a dead deal out of the gate. They will have to price at Jetta level or maybe between Jetta and passat diesel or mazda diesels will be gathering dust. Its a car not an overpriced Porsche....

 

[rotarykid]

The thing is, other automakers have confirmed cars for here, including VW, and then backed out.

In the case of the 1997 Golf TDI and 1998 Passat TDI, at the very last second - in dealer brochures, certifications (the Golf only got Canadian certification, though), at auto shows, asses in seats, everything.

There actually were a few 97 Golf TDIs sold in the US, I have only personally laid eyes on one though over the years.

The coming diesels like the mazda 6 are related the company passing CAFE for 2014. And they will only likely bring in as many are required to get the numbers high enough.

 

[oilhammer]

Unfortunately, now as always, the CAFE requirements are so full of loopholes that the bottom line of MPG gets easily obscured. Like classifications of certain vehicles as 'light trucks'. Was an HHR really a truck? No. It was a Cobalt with a goofy skin over its body. Was the PT Cruiser? No. It was a Stratus with a goofy skin over its body. Is the Tiguan? No. It is just a jacked up Golf with a top hat. CRV? No. Just a Civic with a larger engine from an Integra or Accord stuffed in it.

Now they have other things that give them 'credits', like start-stop, ATF warmers, and the latest is the plug-in hybrid stuff. All of these do very little to actually curb fossil fuel consumption, but they count towards offsetting that CAFE number. Flex fuel vehicles is another one. How is it better to have a 20 MPG car or truck that can burn E85 (but most won't ever be fed that) versus a car or truck that gets 30 MPG that cannot burn more than E15? It isn't better, yet towards the end of the Ford Ranger's run they were pushing hard to sell the 3.0L Vulcan trucks instead of the just-as-capable 2.3L DOHC trucks because the Vulcan was E85 compliant and the 2.3L wasn't. And Ford did that because of CAFE loopholes.

This is where I think the diesels sort of get left out, because our current emissions standards are so skewed against them. We legislated ourselves into a corner that works against high MPGs, and have allowed so many loopholes that further trip this up as well as make really low CO2 output engines (also known as diesels) excessively expensive to produce and sell here.

BTW, the Ranger is gone: the last diesel version sold here (powered by a Mitsubishi turbo version) was 1987. Yet towards the end they were pushing to sell you one equipped with an engine that debuted in the 1986 Taurus, and even in 1986, that all cast iron pushrod lump was about as cutting edge as a wet noodle. You know what the rest of the world gets under the hood of their Rangers? Hint: it ain't got no spark plugs!

 

[bhtooefr]

They are reducing, but not eliminating, the truck loophole, though: http://www1.eere.energy.gov/vehiclesandfuels/facts/m/2010_fotw623.html

 

[bhtooefr]

you know as well as I do they CANT price in NA like that or it's a dead deal out of the gate. They will have to price at Jetta level or maybe between Jetta and passat diesel or mazda diesels will be gathering dust. Its a car not an overpriced Porsche....

Remember, UK car prices include all the taxes, whereas US prices do not.

For cars and computers, UK£1 == US$1.

See above.

 

[oilhammer]

Thanks for that link. I knew they were changing some items, but clearly it isn't really enough. To me, ANYTHING that is under the 8600 GVWR weight limit change should be made to fall into the same category. This would include all current SUVs, all "half ton" pickups, etc. since we know the vast majority of these are not used for cargo alone, if at all. I also fail to see the 2WD/4WD distinction, that seems dumb, and again cause for more loopholes. Manufacturers will push to sell a 4WD version over a 2WD version of something, even though the purchaser doesn't need 4WD, and it will almost always get worse MPGs.... and if they standards are different, you can almost bet it WILL get worse MPGs because they can tune it differently, or even use a different engine altogether.

Maybe make a "commercial" version of a half-ton pickup, though, without any fluff, if it really is used as a truck. That would keep all these extended/crew cab short bed empty commuter trucks from selling so well. Be easier if consumers just made a wise choice in the first place, though. I hate big gov't.

 

[bhtooefr]

IMO, if it gets emissions and/or fuel economy exemptions from being a truck, it should require a CDL class C to drive.

Even if that doesn't reduce the number of oversized vehicles on the road, it will improve how those vehicles are driven, which is more important given their larger mass.

 

[Pat Dolan]

I know what OilH is saying regarding past diesel introductions is quite accurate. However, I am trying my best to be optimistic in the hopes that SOMEONE will come to their senses and also put VW on notice to stop dumping a few bottom-of-the-barrel diesels on our market and give us the good stuff. I just want the darn Jetta Allcross but my eldest daughter is salivating over the Panamera TDI! I have to explain to her that even after 12 years in University, she isn't going get paid quite enough to buy one of those things.

 

[rotarykid]

Unfortunately, now as always, the CAFE requirements are so full of loopholes that the bottom line of MPG gets easily obscured. Like classifications of certain vehicles as 'light trucks'. Was an HHR really a truck? No. It was a Cobalt with a goofy skin over its body. Was the PT Cruiser? No. It was a Stratus with a goofy skin over its body. Is the Tiguan? No. It is just a jacked up Golf with a top hat. CRV? No. Just a Civic with a larger engine from an Integra or Accord stuffed in it.

Now they have other things that give them 'credits', like start-stop, ATF warmers, and the latest is the plug-in hybrid stuff. All of these do very little to actually curb fossil fuel consumption, but they count towards offsetting that CAFE number. Flex fuel vehicles is another one. How is it better to have a 20 MPG car or truck that can burn E85 (but most won't ever be fed that) versus a car or truck that gets 30 MPG that cannot burn more than E15? It isn't better, yet towards the end of the Ford Ranger's run they were pushing hard to sell the 3.0L Vulcan trucks instead of the just-as-capable 2.3L DOHC trucks because the Vulcan was E85 compliant and the 2.3L wasn't. And Ford did that because of CAFE loopholes.

This is where I think the diesels sort of get left out, because our current emissions standards are so skewed against them. We legislated ourselves into a corner that works against high MPGs, and have allowed so many loopholes that further trip this up as well as make really low CO2 output engines (also known as diesels) excessively expensive to produce and sell here.

BTW, the Ranger is gone: the last diesel version sold here (powered by a Mitsubishi turbo version) was 1987. Yet towards the end they were pushing to sell you one equipped with an engine that debuted in the 1986 Taurus, and even in 1986, that all cast iron pushrod lump was about as cutting edge as a wet noodle. You know what the rest of the world gets under the hood of their Rangers? Hint: it ain't got no spark plugs!

Anybody that has ever read what I think of the last ~29 years without CAFE knows how I feel about the gas guzzling garbage we have been offered over this time.

While the coming CAFE is a swiss cheese of rules and loopholes it is better than the nothing we have had for the last ~29 years. The coming offerings are going to be needed by a company like Mazda because they believe diesels are the best way to bring up their auto fleet numbers in heavier models like the "6".

While hybrids work well in smaller vehicles diesels have the advantage in heavier larger vehicles. This fact will require the use of diesels by many auto makers that don't currently have fleets of hybrids in the wings. Over the next ~5 years many auto makers will be forced to add diesel power to their lineups to meet increases in CAFE. At some point even Toyota will have to at least offer a diesel option in some models to meet CAFE. That is a good thing for us all....

 

[oilhammer]

Most Mazdas sold in the last 10 years are just badge-engineered Fords, including your 6. You cannot hold a brand out to dry when the brand consists of many different models from all over the planet, with little to do with one another. I assure you, your 6 is built just as good or bad as the Mondeo/Fusion it is based upon.

 

[IndigoBlueWagon]

So that leaves the question open whether or not the new 6 will have better rust prevention than earlier cars. The 1st gen Miata was notorious for rust, but that's ancient history. And I do see rusty RX-8s around. So maybe the company doesn't have a very high standard for this regardless of platform history.

 

[oilhammer]

We commonly see newer (2002+) Nissans in here with major rust, too. Many domestic brands, too. It seems hit or miss on some models, common on others. And of course has a lot to do with where the car spent its life.

1998 A3 Jettas rust here, yet 1998 Passats and Beetles don't, despite the Beetle being built on the same assembly line.

I wouldn't say STL is inside the rust belt like Chicago is, but we certainly get our fair share of road salt in the winter... just that our winter isn't very long.

Personally, if I lived in an area like Chicago or Cleveland, I'd probably never own a new car... I'd buy some used Japanese POS and drive it until it broke, then find another and do the same thing. At least for a daily driver. Because even if the body panels and unibody rails don't rust out, all the metal bits under the car still do... badly. We had a 2000 Audi A4 in here last week from somewhere up north that had its transmission pan bolts rusted so badly I could not even get a the Torx bit to go into them. They were like little rusty meatballs. The exhaust flexpipe was rotted out on the left bank, the right bank wasn't far behind, and every single fastener on the brakes, suspension, etc. was just complete rust. Car only had 39k miles on it, too.

 

[IndigoBlueWagon]

What's strange is that I put rear springs in my wagon last fall, and had the rear calipers off on Saturday to cycle the pistons and flush the system and everything came apart fine. I have a little rust on one rocker, a little on the hatch where they always crack, otherwise nothing after 10 winters in New England. My son's A3 needed pretty major rocker panel/floor work last year. And B4 Passats in the rust belt often look terrible.

JasonTDI says that the worst thing people in WI can do is have heated garages. You drive a cold car into a warm garage, everything gets covered with condensation, and then rusts. He says getting stuff apart under cars with that treatment can be extremely difficult. I'm a big fan of garaging cars, but not of heat.

 

[kjclow]

JasonTDI says that the worst thing people in WI can do is have heated garages. You drive a cold car into a warm garage, everything gets covered with condensation, and then rusts. He says getting stuff apart under cars with that treatment can be extremely difficult. I'm a big fan of garaging cars, but not of heat.

Living in Iowa, Wisconsin, Indiana, and now North Carolina, the only time I've heated the garage is if I was going to be out there working in it. Never saw the need for spending the money for heating something with a minimum of a 8x12 foot heat sink.

 

[IndigoBlueWagon]

What's interesting is that although Mazda has their cute video describing the diesel, they don't list that engine in the specifications page. Makes me wonder.

 

[BillAud]

What's interesting is that although Mazda has their cute video describing the diesel, they don't list that engine in the specifications page. Makes me wonder.

Because the diesel version won't be available until later in the year, while the gas version becomes available for purchase tomorrow (Jan 2nd).

 

[heidelberger75]

What's strange is that I put rear springs in my wagon last fall, and had the rear calipers off on Saturday to cycle the pistons and flush the system and everything came apart fine. I have a little rust on one rocker, a little on the hatch where they always crack, otherwise nothing after 10 winters in New England. My son's A3 needed pretty major rocker panel/floor work last year. And B4 Passats in the rust belt often look terrible.

JasonTDI says that the worst thing people in WI can do is have heated garages. You drive a cold car into a warm garage, everything gets covered with condensation, and then rusts. He says getting stuff apart under cars with that treatment can be extremely difficult. I'm a big fan of garaging cars, but not of heat.

I've heard this as well. I'm originally from warm Texas but lived for 5 years in Madison WI. As long as you leave the car outside and everything stays very cold or frozen it's better. When you park in a garage (it doesn't have to be heated, just warmer than freezing) and everything starts to melt, the salt starts eating away at things.

 

[70MPG-goal]

There is alot of independance between mazda & ford. Ford took a Hybrid approch, as well as the EcoBoost (Direct injection & turbo), while Mazda is taking a high compression ratio approch with direct injection or the low compression ratio in their diesels. In the US ford has no diesels in the Car world, they only do it for the big trucks (power stroke).

 

[romad]

1. Ford only owns 3% of Mazda.
2. The last Mazda from Flat Rock rolled off the line in August 2012.
3. Good riddance to Ford!

 

[chudzikb]

3. Absent Ford, there would be no Mazda. Ford saved them.

 

[LRTDI]

Woohoo. Let the competition begin!
http://jalopnik.com/5973226/the-mazda6-diesel-race-car-is-all-sorts-of-wonderful

 

[tdi90hp]

well...maybe...lots of independent spirit in that company and they do `feel`like a japanese VW...Mazda will make a big mark in NA with the new 6....I have to believe that they have reworked the rust issues....typically asian manufacturers react very quickly when major problems arise....looks like they have gone racing with the 2.2 liter diesel now at nearly 400hp....lets see how they do....then later in the year they hit the real torture test....the streets of NA....color me skeptic till we see the product, the powertrain, the price, the performance, the interior, the body quality....the crash tests and on and on....