How are TDI's doing long term after the buyback?

oilhammer

Certified Volkswagen Nut & Vendor
Joined
Dec 11, 2001
Location
outside St Louis, MO
TDI
There are just too many to list....
And now a new "trend" for the CKRA:

Broken and leaking [plastic] oil filter housings! Cooler weather hit, and we just got our second one in barfing coolant there... they crack just like the EA888's water pump housings!
 

TurboABA

Top Post Dawg
Joined
Jul 24, 2010
Location
Kitchener, ON
TDI
RIP-2010 Jetta 6spd 2014 Touareg Execline
@Dannyboy
What modifications are you running on your TDIs in winter? Are you blocking off or restricting airflow to your rad? If you're doing nothing except *****ing about how they are too efficient for cold winters, it doesn't make them "uncomfortable" to drive. I've never heard of anyone having this much trouble trying to generate\maintain heat. (with the exception of those doing nothing other than posting about how crappy these are)

Also, are you suggesting that you're running a supplementary or auxiliary heater and you still have comfort issues? Have you tried rolling up your windows or shutting your doors? :cool:
 

turbobrick240

Top Post Dawg
Joined
Nov 18, 2014
Location
maine
TDI
2011 vw golf tdi(gone to greener pastures), 2001 ford f250 powerstroke
The marginal heating of my '11 TDI is the one thing I don't miss about that car. Took a while to adjust to the 30 mpg of my current gasser Golf, but the heat comes on so much quicker and it never blows lukewarm just from idling in traffic or drive thru in frigid weather.
 

TurboABA

Top Post Dawg
Joined
Jul 24, 2010
Location
Kitchener, ON
TDI
RIP-2010 Jetta 6spd 2014 Touareg Execline
Such drama.... :cool:
No, I don't live in Winterpeg, but I have driven my TDI in low to mid -30s in northern Ontario and have not had these issues.
Clearly whatever pipe insulation mod you performed wasn't sufficient at those temps, and in those conditions. Restrict or block more airflow and you'll maintain hot coolant temps which will allow you to use more than just the lowest blower speed (since that also sounds like an issue).

You could also just tell stories about how TDIs can't defrost windows while driving..... that should easily provide sufficient hot air.
 

kjclow

Top Post Dawg
Joined
Apr 26, 2003
Location
Charlotte, NC
TDI
2010 JSW TDI silver and black. 2017 Ram Ecodiesel dark red with brown and beige interior.
While I can see and appreciate your perspective, I also stand by my statement about careless owners\drivers playing a massive role in the typical scenario...... I am not even "in the industry" and I see many, many examples of people ignoring CELs (and other signs of problems) and driving with pending failures for months at a time until it results in more issues.

Bottom line is, you can't have everything!
You can't have best of power\reliability\emissions\cost\technology all at the same time..... pick your poison.
I ignored the cel on my 2000 beetle since I knew (or was told) that the issues were a bad sensor in one (or maybe all) of the doors and a short some where in the glow plug harness. I traded it with about 160k mile for the 2010 JSW. I think that it might have had one or two cels prior to the "fix". Both might have been the result of a failing battery. Easy fix. I've had three or four since the fix. Two were bad plugs. The others were bad sensors. All repalced under extended warranty. I think we put about 4000 miles on it this last year due to both Covid and my wife choosing to retire instead of teaching via computer. So it just passed 150k miles and will be around until we decide to go with some type of plug-in vehicle.
 

Simple_Man

Active member
Joined
Jul 19, 2004
Location
MN
TDI
Golf, 2002
My wife bought a 2015 Golf Sportwagen with 53,000 on it. It was a buy back that came from Florida.
The only things I have done are regular maintenance, oil changes when it asks for them, dsg fluid changes every 40k, front brakes and the timing belt at 130k. When I did the TB I even opted for the original style water pump with the solenoid operated bypass, I didn't want to hear about it not warming up as fast. I did break one of the nipples on an Difference intake air pressure sensor, took a chance on a cheap one on amazon and have had no issues.

It now has 156,000 miles.

It does not live an easy life here in Minnesota. It has never seen the inside of a garage. It has been started cold soaked at -30 F. It gets idled why to much for my liking, but that is my wife's doing not mine. It gets shifted into drive from reverse when it is not yet stopped, the wife again. It also does more short trips now as my wife is working form home due to covid.

It has simply been completely trouble free. Will it make it to 385K, and still going, like my alh golf? I don't know, but that had a few non-maintenance issues before it got to where the Sportwagen is now.
 

TurboABA

Top Post Dawg
Joined
Jul 24, 2010
Location
Kitchener, ON
TDI
RIP-2010 Jetta 6spd 2014 Touareg Execline
Don't believe everything you hear.... CheckEngineLights won't throw from non engine related systems like doors and such.
 

oilhammer

Certified Volkswagen Nut & Vendor
Joined
Dec 11, 2001
Location
outside St Louis, MO
TDI
There are just too many to list....
I am really surprised that Canada didn't have on offer the fuel-fired heaters that northern European countries got in their TDIs. I had one in my Sprinter (as standard) and it would be blowing warm air out the vents 30 seconds after a 5 F cold start. The fancier versions even have a timers to preheat them before you start the engine.

Although none of my TDIs or older IDI VAG diesels had issues keeping the interior comfortable and the windows clear, they do take longer to get up to temp, and in some extreme cold conditions, never really can.

But it rarely gets that cold here. But when we did get a -25 F cold snap a couple years ago, it was not an issue staying warm and clear.
 

TurboABA

Top Post Dawg
Joined
Jul 24, 2010
Location
Kitchener, ON
TDI
RIP-2010 Jetta 6spd 2014 Touareg Execline
They "stripped" lots of neat features off NA offerings because they wanted to compete against top selling jap stuff......
The technology & solutions exist.... we just don't get them.
 
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TurboABA

Top Post Dawg
Joined
Jul 24, 2010
Location
Kitchener, ON
TDI
RIP-2010 Jetta 6spd 2014 Touareg Execline
I finally ran across the PET "pre-requisites" again.... so those of you who are trying to get use out of it, make sure you meet the conditions.

Basically, the heat setting has to be at least 90% of maximum, and re-circulation and ECON must be OFF

An electrical auxiliary air heater is installed in diesel vehicles. The electrical auxiliary air heater is a combination of a PTC heater element with an integrated control unit. It is installed downstream of the heat exchanger and provides additional heating of the vehicle interior after cold-starting the egine. The electrical auxiliary air heater directly heats the air which enters the vehicle interior. It acquires all information needed for operation via the convenience CAN data bus.

Activation conditions


The electrical auxiliary air heater is activated:

- in the case of the 2C-Climatronic and Climatic: automatically via the CAN data bus; in the case of the heating system: if the occupants set the heating output to over 90% at the operating unit (analog signal),- if the water temperature is below 75°C,
- if the engine speed is higher than 500 rpm,
- if no load management system is active and
- if the ECON button is not pressed.
 

gearheadgrrrl

Veteran Member
Joined
Dec 15, 2002
Location
Buffalo Ridge (southwest Minnesota)
TDI
'15 Golf DSG, '13 JSW DSG surrendered to VW, '03 Golf 2 door manual
I think a lot of whether or not a buy back TDI is a good deal depends on the vehicles warranty status. Mine is probably the "best case", a 2015 stop sale I bought new in April 2017 so the emissions warranty runs into 2028 and 162k miles. In 4 and a half years I've only put on 51k miles, so I'll probably have engine, fuel system, and emissions system coverage until I've pretty much gotten my money's worth out of the car. On the other hand, there are high mileage 2010 TDIs out there that are past the 10 year/120k mile from new coverage and blowing through the 5 year/60k mile since recall fix... Putting the owner in a tough place if they've got a lot of $$$ invested in their TDI and it needs an expensive fix.
 

TurboABA

Top Post Dawg
Joined
Jul 24, 2010
Location
Kitchener, ON
TDI
RIP-2010 Jetta 6spd 2014 Touareg Execline
There are many, many factors which make everyone's situation different.
For example, in lots of TDI users' opinion, you don't drive sufficient miles to "pony up" the extra cost for buying a TDI new..... your FE ROI will be forever..... you would've probably "saved" just as much by buying a cheaper gasser which could easily get to 162k without needing anything that would be covered by the fix warranty.
 

gearheadgrrrl

Veteran Member
Joined
Dec 15, 2002
Location
Buffalo Ridge (southwest Minnesota)
TDI
'15 Golf DSG, '13 JSW DSG surrendered to VW, '03 Golf 2 door manual
There are many, many factors which make everyone's situation different.
For example, in lots of TDI users' opinion, you don't drive sufficient miles to "pony up" the extra cost for buying a TDI new..... your FE ROI will be forever..... you would've probably "saved" just as much by buying a cheaper gasser which could easily get to 162k without needing anything that would be covered by the fix warranty.
"Cept with the $5k rebate they had to clear out the stop saled TDIs I paid slightly less than the price of a gasser. For the 2003 TDI the uncharge over gas was about $1k, and after 155k miles it's more than paid that back.
 

farnhamassoc

Veteran Member
Joined
Jul 9, 2011
Location
Riverside CA
TDI
06 Jetta tdi, 09 TDI SPORTWAGEN 2011 Audi a3 TDI. VW caddy turbo diesel... Various vw split window busses
Keep em running Thanks to ABA turbo Mine will be running till I DIE I think. ha ha. I did find a shortcut for that thermostat housing on the CJAA....lets keep them on the ROAD!!! ....Really want to get this shortcut out there. So I hope I am not over posting this......Saves at least an hour on the thermostat install. You can keep the oil filter housing in place. Just remove the EGR, intake flap, and turbo tube unplug sensor. SERVICE POSITION!!!!! then a m8 stubby Tripple square set to remove the one behind the oil filter housing. with alternator in place you can remove the therm out of the hole. leave all hoses on the tube. I did make a video on this to help....
 

farnhamassoc

Veteran Member
Joined
Jul 9, 2011
Location
Riverside CA
TDI
06 Jetta tdi, 09 TDI SPORTWAGEN 2011 Audi a3 TDI. VW caddy turbo diesel... Various vw split window busses
And now a new "trend" for the CKRA:

Broken and leaking [plastic] oil filter housings! Cooler weather hit, and we just got our second one in barfing coolant there... they crack just like the EA888's water pump housings!
I know you have a shop did you see my shortcut for the thermostat.....saves a lot of time.
 

JETaah

Vendor , w/Business number
Joined
Jan 18, 2001
Location
mi 48836
TDI
96 B4V, 2005 BEW Beetle, 2005 Jetta Wagon
I know you have a shop did you see my shortcut for the thermostat.....saves a lot of time.
Thanks, I used that video to prompt me along and bought that very set of stubby bits.
Anyone who doesn't replace that triple square bolt with a hex head should be shot. That was such a boneheaded move to put a triple-square headed bolt there.:poop:
 

TurboABA

Top Post Dawg
Joined
Jul 24, 2010
Location
Kitchener, ON
TDI
RIP-2010 Jetta 6spd 2014 Touareg Execline
Amen. FWIW, a shortened water pump bolt does the trick. (I believe M7x1.00 threads)
The "bracing" elements of that "mount" really make it a pain as far as access, even if you do go hex..... I'm not a mechanic, but when I play one on the internet, I suggest that using an allen socket head instead, allows you more flexibility since you can use a "ball head" driver to get at in from the awkward angle.
 

TurboABA

Top Post Dawg
Joined
Jul 24, 2010
Location
Kitchener, ON
TDI
RIP-2010 Jetta 6spd 2014 Touareg Execline
Oh... and there's also these guys, but I'm not sure if they come in the correct size.
 

drew_t

Well-known member
Joined
Feb 7, 2022
Location
SF Bay Area
TDI
2013 Passat TDI SE
I bought my 2013 Passat TDI SE in January 2020. It had just under 50,000 miles on it. It’s at around 78,000 now.

The HPFP and lift pump have been replaced at a VW dealership under the extended emissions warranty; the only other covered repair was to a broken wire to the auxiliary coolant pump.

Stuff I’ve done myself, besides all the scheduled maintenance and a battery: replaced the stupid clogged heater core (my VIN didn’t qualify for the dealership to do it), replaced the water pump that barely lasted 60,000 miles before springing a leak, and did a timing belt job at the same time because it would be dumb not to; front and rear brakes (could have gotten more life out of them, but they were making noise); replaced a door lock mechanism (bad at the time of purchase but I didn’t notice until later). I also put one of the newer Chinese radios and a backup camera in it.

I probably wouldn’t be very happy with this car if I was having to pay a shop to take care of all this stuff. From my perspective as a DIYer, the parts costs and hours I’ve spent haven’t been too outrageous. The prospect of owning this car once the extended warranty expires is not particularly appealing. I have no interest in illegal tampering with the emissions controls. My next car will probably be electric.
 

gmcinnes

Member
Joined
May 7, 2020
Location
Connecticut
TDI
2013 Sportwagen TDI
2013 CJAA JSW. Bought it in 2019. Since then I've had to

* replace 2 broken coil springs (broke at the midpoint of the spring!) one in the front, one in the rear (did all 4 shocks & struts)
* replace intake manifold
* replace DPF
* do rotors and pads
* replace ball joints
* change transmission fluid
* change oil change

I've had to do more to this car in 3 years than I've had to do on my Corolla in 12. If the big items weren't covered by the extended emissions warranty I would be PEEVED.

I realize some of these things are routine maintenance, but VW designs manage to make them much harder to do than other cars I work on.

On top of all that, it's not that stellar in terms of efficiency, and there is a significant cost premium on diesel now, so it's probably more expensive to drive per mile than a gas car.

I love driving the car. I love that it's practical for my family, but still fun to drive. But I'd never recommend one, particularly not to someone that doesn't wrench.
 

borninabus

Veteran Member
Joined
Feb 18, 2020
Location
Arizona
TDI
-2013 JSW 6MT- -2006 Jetta DSG-
bought my JSW almost exactly 2 years ago with 68k miles. had malone stage 2 installed immediately. turns out it had a failed DPF at the time of purchase. it had the HPFP replaced prior to my ownership. it took 3 trips to the dealer (with the tune flashed back to stock) and me basically telling them how to fix it for the DPF/EGR to make it to the current 129k. never checked the ash level, always try to let regens complete. run 5w40 Delo XSP. fuel & oil filter every other change. MPI always shows 36-38mpg average. i do not drive like a grandpa and i live in a city where surface street speeds are 50-60mph. always cruise north of 80mph on the interstate. upcoming timing belt replacement will be the first money i have put into it not by choice.

there is just so much information here that anyone who is not informed about their CR TDI is basically shooting themselves in the foot, IMO. i love the car but realize that it is not for the uninformed/short tripper/hypermile type of driver. hoping that the next 60k are as uneventful as the previous and if it's not, you folks will be the first to know.
 

Lightflyer1

Top Post Dawg
Joined
Sep 13, 2005
Location
Round Rock, Texas
TDI
2015 Beetle tdi dsg
2015 Beetle tdi, bought new (2017) as a stop sale car. I have had the DEF tank and associated stuff replaced once and the DEF injector was just replaced. All under warranty and good service and a loaner car. Just turned 50k miles. So far it has been a great vehicle even though at first I wasn't impressed by the newer Beetles. Really nice commuter vehicle for longer trips (35 miles each way, highway). I monitor all regens with VAGDPF and let them complete when needed. Mine was new so no previous owner issues to deal with. Good routine maintenance done by the dealer to ensure warranty coverage. I also agree they aren't for the uninformed. Long time left on my extended emissions warranty. Holding off on Part 2b as long as possible.
 

gmcinnes

Member
Joined
May 7, 2020
Location
Connecticut
TDI
2013 Sportwagen TDI
Alas, even though the JSW gets about 20% more mpg than my Corolla, the premium on diesel here makes it about 25%-30% more expensive to run. Diesel was cheaper when I bought it.

Maybe my expectations are too high, but it doesn't seem right to me that major components like the DEF system, Intake Manifold, Coil Springs, HPFP etc. should be failing at < 100K.

My Ram is edging up on half a million miles, and it's never needed work that took more than 2 hours to do (replace alternator, power steering pump etc.)

My Corolla is at 150K and all it's needed is a brake job and one ball joint.

I like the CJAA in a lot of ways, but it's too fragile for my taste.
 

kjclow

Top Post Dawg
Joined
Apr 26, 2003
Location
Charlotte, NC
TDI
2010 JSW TDI silver and black. 2017 Ram Ecodiesel dark red with brown and beige interior.
My daughter got rid of the Corolla at 225,000. Only two major (?) repairs. One set of wheel bearings and a broken belt tensioner. Dealer wanted $$ to even look at the issue since he said it would require pulling the engine. I asked our local shop to look at and give me a quote. 30 min later, they called and said it was done and I owned them $25.

I've noticed that the JSW seems to always be in regen mode. My wife's driving it more so maybe she just needs to beat on it a little.
 

Jr mason

Veteran Member
Joined
Oct 20, 2013
Location
Ohio
TDI
01 Beetle, 2012 Jetta
My regens are happening around 210 miles of driving. 35 miles to work and then return. Regen every three days.
I have looked for info on the TDI regen frequencies but there isn't much info out there that I have seen. Is it 210 miles on the dot, every time? Do you have a way to track regens? I don't (yet) but will be. Currently the only metric I really have is to listen for the fan to be running on high speed which is very difficult to do with my motly highway driving. Watching the instant mpg is an option but not always accurate either.
Generally speaking, engines are programmed to run an active regen every so many engine hrs, regardless of soot load, as a preventative measure. Engine hours is the prevailing metric from what I have seen because driving habits vary so much you could put 210 miles on in 3 hrs (70mph avg) or 11 hrs (20mph avg, think city driving).
 

oilhammer

Certified Volkswagen Nut & Vendor
Joined
Dec 11, 2001
Location
outside St Louis, MO
TDI
There are just too many to list....
There are several VAG engines that have DPFs, that due to other differences won't necessarily work the same as each other. Also, there are two different regeneration processes that can happen, the passive and the active. The passive one is fairly transparent to the driver, and if it completes successfully and the parameters are met (from the DPF's differential pressure sensor) the more aggressive active one won't be triggered. How long in between and which type is wildly variable based on the driving situation. There is no one-size-fits-all scenario. SCR-equipped engines can run leaner more often, and thus use less fuel and produce less soot and therefor won't require as much regenerations to occur. The CKRA, CVCA, and CRUA (as well as all the V6s) have SCR. The CBEA and CJAA do not. The CBEA/CJAA have both low and high pressure EGR, but only the low pressure is run through a cooler. The CKRA has both its EGR cooled, but the high pressure one is directly through the cylinder head. The CVCA/CRUA are similar to the CKRA, but those also add in a variable intake camshaft. The CBEA/CJAA have twin path intake runners, the CKRA does not, and the CVCA/CRUA have an entirely different intake setup altogether, although it does use coolant for direct charge air temp control like the CKRA does.

Lots of differences in these engines, means they work a little differently from one another.
 
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Jr mason

Veteran Member
Joined
Oct 20, 2013
Location
Ohio
TDI
01 Beetle, 2012 Jetta
I'm at 160k on my 2012. Roughly 40k miles since the "fix". I've not had any emissions issues....yet. I do see them coming though given the frequency of regens and the temp these engines run. My wore out 01 with its hazy, 300k mile injectors, pump, and turbo net better mileage than the 12. But the 12 ride is much more refined and makes better power. I want to keep this car long term and forsee some major changes coming along in the near future, probably over the winter. I will be parking it and running the 01 another winter in the slop and salt.

Overall the car really has been good. Only minimal maintenance items. The only gripe I have is the stupid DMF VW insists on using. I'm about to drop the trans to replace it, I just wish there was a standard flywheel option for the DSG like there was when I had to replace the one behind my 02J.
 

Jr mason

Veteran Member
Joined
Oct 20, 2013
Location
Ohio
TDI
01 Beetle, 2012 Jetta
There are several VAG engines that have DPFs, that due to other differences won't necessarily work the same as each other. Also, there are two different regeneration processes that can happen, the passive and the active. The passive one is fairly transparent to the driver, and if it completes successfully and the parameters are met (from the DPF's differential pressure sensor) the more aggressive active one won't be triggered. How long in between and which type is wildly variable based on the driving situation. There is no one-size-fits-all scenario. SCR-equipped engines can run leaner more often, and thus use less fuel and produce less soot and therefor won't require as much regenerations to occur. The CKRA, CVCA, and CRUA (as well as all the V6s) have SCR. The CBEA and CJAA do not.
We might have different definitions of regen (or maybe VW does?)
A passive regen happens naturally as long as the filter is above a certain temperature to oxidise the PM. No extra fuel injections required.
 
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