Grenaded Engine

[BlueGolf]

My 2002 Golf self destructed last night. 155,000 km on the dial. The only car I have never had a desire to get rid of. I loved it. In a manly car way.

Going down the road it accelarated out of control, followed by a loud band and various unappealing crunchy sounds. Nearest I can figure, the seal on the turbo went, and it ingested oil. The oil provided a momentary boost of sweet acceleration before seizing the engine, and blowing smoke. Kind of like a teenage boy rounding third base for the first time. Quick and dirty.

So what to do? The car seems to have a value of around 8K Cndn with an engine. How much do replacement engines go for? I figure it's probably around $5K to get it on the road again. Thoughts?

 

[bluesmoker]

you can get a good used engine here

http://usedvolkswagenparts.vancore.ca/idat.pl

 

[rhinoman]

Yikes... Sorry to hear. I was on usedottawa.com not too long ago and there were quite a few Jettas for sale. May want to see what's available for an engine pull if need be.

****ty, ****ty news.

(Ottawa West)

 

[jettawreck]

You seem to be taking it fairly well. Bit of humor and all.
Fairly low miles for a '02. Chassis in good condition it's probably worth the time/effort to re-engine it. I would. Its not a tough job. When I finally got the '01 ready for a donor engine it only took an afternoon to get it transplanted in. Depending on what exactly let go internally you should have some parts-IP, head 'may' be OK, etc.

 

[BlueGolf]

You seem to be taking it fairly well. Bit of humor and all.
Fairly low miles for a '02. Chassis in good condition it's probably worth the time/effort to re-engine it. I would. Its not a tough job. When I finally got the '01 ready for a donor engine it only took an afternoon to get it transplanted in. Depending on what exactly let go internally you should have some parts-IP, head 'may' be OK, etc.

Is this a job that can be done in my garage? I have a decent setup, just no hoist or engine dolly.

 

[jettawreck]

Is this a job that can be done in my garage? I have a decent setup, just no hoist or engine dolly.

Sure. Sounds like me/mine. Just a garage that gets more snowmobile activity than cars, but all I had to get was a cheap engine lift/hoist that I borrowed from a neighbor. The local rental place has 'em too. Or they are about $150 at the fleet store. Worked fine. I took it out the top w/hood off. Some say its easier to take it out from under side. I didn't have that option.

 

[Danielg42]

You can also take it out the front pretty easily... Pull the front end into the service position and get a jack under the engine. You'll want a couple floor jacks and a good dolly.

Whatever you do... make sure it doesn't slip and fall.

 

[puter]

Never done it myself, but I've actually heard that removing the engine is a lot easier than many of the jobs on the car, apparently you just unbolt a few things and pull it out.

 

[BlueGolf]

you can get a good used engine here

http://usedvolkswagenparts.vancore.ca/idat.pl

Apparently they don't sell complete engines. Any one know of another place?

 

[jettawreck]

Apparently they don't sell complete engines. Any one know of another place?

I could advise you of a couple companies to stay away from that didn't work out well for me.
I went thru three bad/damaged engines before I got one I was able to use on the '01. Then I and got onto this forum and learned a lot of stuff. Took almost a year to get it straightened out with my credit card company. Thank goodness for their ability to "chargeback" the deceitful scum. It was the only way to resolve anything with them.
I would try to examine it in person if I were to buy a "used" engine again, unless the vendor/seller had a stellar reputation and/or was a forum member. Its nice to be able to have some "history" to the engine you use. The one I am running in the '01 I have none, other than the TB was done by a top guru after I bought it and before it was ever driven. So I have a chassis w/100K miles on it now and an engine that may have 500K. Who knows?? Does it matter?? IP, turbo, etc are limited life items and their life may be very limited on my engine. Maybe, maybe not-don't know. Have spare IP and turbo on the shelf from the original for spares. Drive it, take care of it reasonably and worry later.
I have had very good dealings with all of the vendors (and many individuals in the classifieds, except one permanently banned one) I've dealt with on this site, but do your homework and assume nothing. If you buy an engine from a wrecked vehicle you know it was running at the time. Just make sure the engine mount tab cast into the front (TB end) of the block, firewall side, is intact. Many seem to get cracked/broken in frontal collisions.
Once you decide on and get an engine, the swap goes pretty good. If you have success in locating a good replacement I think you will be surprised how much less than your estimate you will have into it.

 

[n1das]

Apparently they don't sell complete engines. Any one know of another place?

Brand NEW engine, complete:
http://shopping.boraparts.com/product_info.php?products_id=265

I feel your pain, ****ty news. Good luck.

 

[FredS]

I have a 2001 ALH from my daughter's totaled NB I might sell if interested. Obviously shipping it would be some cost, but I know someone that could ship it to Canada, no problem.

 

[BlueGolf]

I've been poking around the net. There are engines with different VIN series. I had a discussion with my dad, that it doesnt' matter, and I can stick in any tdi engine from '99 to '04. This is correct right?

Appreciate the help.
FredS how many km are on that engine?

 

[jettawreck]

I've been poking around the net. There are engines with different VIN series. I had a discussion with my dad, that it doesnt' matter, and I can stick in any tdi engine from '99 to '04. This is correct right?

Appreciate the help.
FredS how many km are on that engine?

No, not quite. Someone correct me if I'm wrong. Something from a '98 NB TDI would also work. Otherwise '99 ('99.5 kind of-the MKIV was mid year type thing-perhaps thats why VIN # matters) thru '03. The '04 was the first year of the PD injected version. I think the lower end, perhaps a short block unit, would interchange. Head and injector system and a bunch of stuff is different in '04 on up.
On the ALH series it doesn't matter, engine block wise, if it came from an auto or a manual. BUT, the autos had a bigger IP w/smaller injector nozzles. You could swap in your originals.

 

[DonL]

If my engine self destructed and it was $ 5,000 to get my Jetta back on the road, I would not hesitate. However, I would shop around.

 

[shuswap]

Unfortunately that is more like $7,000..... starts at 5999+freight+tax+misc.
I am dismayed that this engine would suffer a runaway at only 96K miles. And that my PD has a ground-down cam at even less mileage.

It sounds to me like you could do this swap, engine lifts are not that expensive, take digital pictures of cable/hose routings as you go.
With the $7k option you apparently get an all-new engine, with mostly new accessories and maybe a warranty?
I's at least talk to Bora.

Does Frank06 do long block engines? He may be a good source of help/guidance.

I feel for you Blue!

 

[FredS]

BlueGolf, my engine has 130000 mi. = 209214.72 km. Timing belt done at 94K miles. Its sitting in an 01 NB, that my daughter drove, and was t-boned, thus totaled. The car still drives straight and no issues, just can't open the driver's door.

 

[bulabula]

I found a good ALH engine here on this forum when my engine ran-away in the Golf. Total cost out of my pocket for the change out door to door was $3600, and that includes an overnight road trip to Buffalo with my son to pick up the engine and bring it home, and renting a tow dolly to take the car to the mechanic. I had a guru do the swap for me. That price also included installing a new timing belt.

I bought the the entire engine + all accessories on it, + wiring harness (and all the other stuff connected to it in the engine compartment) that came out of a wrecked Canadian Jetta. I made a push to get the transmission too, but he needed it. It had the equiv of 121k miles on it (the speedo and odo came with it too).

My point is, buying a brand new/recon engine isn't the only solution. There are good donor's out there.

Just make sure none of the mounting lugs on the engine weren't trashed in the wreck.

It was about a month from runaway to back on the road; - find the engine, go get it, and have it installed. Finding the engine and bringing it home took two weeks. I did have some buddies here that helped me by looking around sending me leads.

My Golf is my daily driver driving into DC every day - I can't leave home without it.

 

[runonbeer]

Have you done any teardown/assessment of damage on your current engine?

 

[UsArmyTDI]

Have you done any teardown/assessment of damage on your current engine?

I was going to say he same thing. It might be cheeper to go for a rebuild that engine swap.

 

[runonbeer]

or, it might not even need a "rebuild". Might just need a turbo.

 

[BlueGolf]

Based on the loud bang and grinding/crunching sounds paired with the copious amounts of smoke, I am pretty sure it needs a new engine I also got those sounds when I turned the key for kicks.

Even if a rebuild would suffice, I think a straight swap will be faster and easier.

I've done some searching, and I've found a few engines in the area. One with unknown mileage and in need of an oil pan for $1300. Another 2 hours away, with 180,000 km for $1800.

The one missing the oil pan is nice and close, but I'm a bit nervous as to why it would need an oil pan. Plus unknown mileage.
http://car-part.com/cgi-bin/search.cgi?userSearch=int&userPID=1000&userLocation=ecanada&userIMS=&userInterchange=DC%3E%3EFN&userSide=&userDate=2002&userDate2=2002&dbModel=75.8.1.1&userModel=Volkswagen%20Golf&dbPart=300.1&userPart=Engine&sessionID=200000000000000000337009618&userPreference=zip&userZip=K2J4V6&userLat=45.2707&userLong=-75.7597&userIntSelect=490602&userUID=0&userBroker=&userPage=1&iKey=

So if I do a straight swap, I take it I won't need a Vagcom? From what I understand I am replacing the mechanical bits not the smart bits. The plan is for my dad and I to do it either this weekend or next. Also going to replace belts, turbo gaskets and clutch before we put in the new one. It will save me a couple K, and it might be entertaining. Plus I hate spending money when I can do it myself.

Don't go far I'm sure I'll have lots more questions

 

[shuswap]

Just be as certain as you can be that the replacement engine is in sound shape. Hate to see you waste money.
The engine needing the pan is interesting....if the pan was damaged while the engine was running, lost oil and engine ran oil-less for even a minute, then it is better used as a boat anchor.

This may turn out to be a solid experience, mostly because you seem to have a good attitude towards learning.....and learn you will!

 

[supton]

Have you pulled the head and/or oil pan? If nothing else, by doing either should help guage just how much of this you really want to do yourself. I mean, if you want to toss in the towel after only a couple hours... Or you may get lucky, and find that the damage is far less than expected.

 

[jettawreck]

Some times (2 out of the 3 I bought) the oil pans are broken because the worker in the salvage yard, or another yard where it originated from) set/drop/transport them on the pans like they do every other engine they move around and they bust them up. The ones I got with broken pans came busted on the "pallets" the idiots shipped them on w/o supporting them up off the pans.
But, there is also a good possibilty that it got broken while being driven and run out of oil. Feeling lucky?? Or not??
You don't need VCDS for the swap (if it goes w/o issue) but you do need it to complete the TB change and set the timing.

 

[jeharrisonjr]

I would pull the head, you may only have a couple bent valves.

 

[quantum_tdi]

or, it might not even need a "rebuild". Might just need a turbo.

Agree here... you'd be surprised at how resilient these engines can be.

BUT I'll also say this is the "perfect" time for that PD150 upgrade (see ridiculous builds here and here)

Or some milder work

 

[BlueGolf]

Agree here... you'd be surprised at how resilient these engines can be.

BUT I'll also say this is the "perfect" time for that PD150 upgrade (see ridiculous builds here and here)

Or some milder work

You're a funny guy

I would love to do something like that, but I don't have the time and I'm not willing to take on the risk

I just put a hold on an engine. 2003 ALH with 130,000 km on it. $1400. Good deal, and I think a swap will be easier than tearing the existing one apart. I will probably do that anyways just because ;-0, before sending it to the junkyard.

There are no FAQ's on engine replacement. At least I haven't found any in my hours of searching and reading.

The rough order of operation appears something like the following, hopefully someone else can fill in the blanks.

1. Burn incense
2. Remove front carrier, or put in service mode.
3. Disconnect rad, and drain coolant.
4. Disconnect AC and PS pump. Tie up out of the way.
5. Disconnect axles. Apparently I need a special tool for this, as it isn't torx.
6. Unplug wiry bits
7. Unbolt engine mounts.
8. Remove.

What special tool do I need, aside from the axle socket?
I take it I need to replace the engine mount bolts. Any others?

 

[shuswap]

Did you take pics of all the plumbing/wiring yet or were you planning on asking what goes where later?

 

[runonbeer]

The tailoring and unique electrical connectors make it pretty intuitive when hooking stuff back up.

There are only 13 connecters in the whole engine compartment that must be disturbed for a swap.

Coolant hoses can present a big challenge as they tend to get stuck on pretty good.

It's helpful to fully remove the passenger side axle (if you're coming out the bottom).