Dieselgate, The Canadian Edition

[Karjar]

Its not the dealer that will provide the quote. It will all be managed by the court appointed claims administrator (Ricepoint) who will provide the quote within 20 days of your buyback appointment after confirming your mileage and based on a yet to be public calculation method (first problem)

You will exchange your car for a cheque at the dealer but he doesn't set the $ involved. That's probably a good thing.

Biggest problem is you are committed to your settlement choice before you get the quote. To me that's a show stopper in the whole deal.

Maybe we need to ask class council if they would commit to this case not knowing until 20 days before settlement what their commission rate would be. Oh and they have to decide before that and can't change their minds after they find out.

 

[mxs]

As I read the mileage adjustment process in the CBB, it suggests it's only a deduction. If someone can confirm that, I'll update the formula. It would also be helpful to understand the criteria which gets the TDI a "Low" vs "High" value.

CBB methodology speaks of deduction only, no clause for the opposite. Only the trio, lawyers-VW-judge know at this point the nuance of the deal ... sadly.

CBB criterie for difference between wholesale low and high is basically condition of your vehicle.

 

[Geekydaddy]

Maybe we need to ask class council if they would commit to this case not knowing until 20 days before settlement what their commission rate would be. Oh and they have to decide before that and can't change their minds after they find out.

Exactly. Opt out and sue on an individual basis.

 

[mxs]

Correct. I added the $600 for NAV as the CBB says to add it.

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1O7_iCEtVsVAfb6KgpYANlOaSJl8n5xhl96kAEEOvwRQ/edit?usp=sharing

Whoops.. math is hard.. lol.. $25,141

I doubt you will get that even with the Nav, for low mileage 2011 .... I suppose you included your bonus for low mileage at 0.05 per and that is included in your 25,141$?

 

[mxs]

Exactly. Opt out and sue on an individual basis.

That's exactly what VW wants you to do ... the chance is real that you will not get much more and will be out of money and considerable time.

 

[Geekydaddy]

That's exactly what VW wants you to do ... the chance is real that you will not get much more and will be out of money and considerable time.

Why agree to it if one doesn't know final payout until after you sign? Choose door number 1,2 or 3... That's Canada's legal system at it's finest. Protect the perp., not the victim.

 

[eeyore_cm]

Correct. I added the $600 for NAV as the CBB says to add it.

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1O7_iCEtVsVAfb6KgpYANlOaSJl8n5xhl96kAEEOvwRQ/edit?usp=sharing

Whoops.. math is hard.. lol.. $25,141

There is still the question of how they will account for the mileage in the calculation, i.e. is it based on a back calculated value or not and if it they use the in service date or model years...

However that aside you are still over inflating your spreadsheet estimate as you are using the value of 0.08 to determine your mileage add/deduct. Your car is in category A and you should be using a value of 0.05 and thus you are about $1800 over.

I believe it should be $23,342

 

[bmcmullin]

There is still the question of how they will account for the mileage in the calculation, i.e. is it based on a back calculated value or not and if it they use the in service date or model years...
However that aside you are still over inflating your spreadsheet estimate as you are using the value of 0.08 to determine your mileage add/deduct. Your car is in category A and you should be using a value of 0.05 and thus you are about $1800 over.
I believe it should be $23,342

As I said earlier, we need to confirm if mileage can be an addition or a deduction. Once that is settled, I'll make the per Km add/deduct configurable in the sheet.

 

[eeyore_cm]

As I said earlier, we need to confirm if mileage can be an addition or a deduction. Once that is settled, I'll make the per Km add/deduct configurable in the sheet.

Sorry wasn't meant to be a jab at the spreadsheet. I'm onboard with what you have done as well as the unanswered questions.

Was more just trying to point out that Ursadorable was using the wrong mileage correction value and was overestimating his/her best case scenario.

 

[eeyore_cm]

So just to throw some more wood on the fire... and this is all purely my speculation.

I ran some more numbers through the online CBB tool using TODAY'S valuation for MY car.

It appears that the cut-off for maximum value (of MY car using the online tool) is at 48K, below that mileage I get exactly the same value. I also speculate that using the online tool you only get an estimate of the high and low values, that INCLUDES the condition of your vehicle (scratches, dents, rips etc). The images from the CBB Book that has been posted is only giving you the value of the vehicle based solely on the trim, model and mileage.

I think what we need is for someone to get their hands on the current CBB book, run the current valuation of their car and compare that to the online tool to see what the percentage difference is between the two.

If there was a difference, you could then take that percentage and apply it to the September 2015 book value and see if you can get some numbers that seem more appropriate to the posted settlement values.

I know that the condition of the vehicle is not mentioned in the settlement as being a determining factor in the valuation. Only Model, year, trim, options and mileage are. But I suspect that the values in that chart reflect the Highs and Lows including the condition.

None of this changes the fact that I am (rather my wife is) going to kick this car to the curb at the first opportunity. But I just don't understand why 'they' can't post more specific information. Yes it's based on mileage and yes it can't be more than 2000km over what you said when you accept the package. But that doesn't stop you from posting the data or creating an estimation tool!

Give us the FACTS!

 

[Ursadorable]

I doubt you will get that even with the Nav, for low mileage 2011 .... I suppose you included your bonus for low mileage at 0.05 per and that is included in your 25,141$?

I simply used the calculation already defined in the spreadsheet, the only number I put in was the vehicle value as per CBB.

 

[eeyore_cm]

I simply used the calculation already defined in the spreadsheet, the only number I put in was the vehicle value as per CBB.

Yeah that number was wrong on the sheet. It should be 0.05 for our cars. I think that was mentioned somewhere in a previous post?

 

[JohnNS]

CBB methodology speaks of deduction only, no clause for the opposite. Only the trio, lawyers-VW-judge know at this point the nuance of the deal ... sadly.
CBB criterie for difference between wholesale low and high is basically condition of your vehicle.

I'm not convinced the judge or our lawyers actually know either. People's emails/calls to them seem to indicate they don't know the numbers - which is a heck of a way to negotiate and approve a settlement.

 

[Armby]

Thanks for the reply Armby.

And commitment or opt out must happen before March 1 2017?

And commitment or opt out will happen before the details of the software/hardware fixed are revealed?

There are two commitments, both before you get an offer that tells you the actual dollars based on a calculation method that is not public. The first is deciding if you are in the class action or are going to opt out of the settlement by March 1.

The second (the one I was referring to) was after you make an appointment to do the buy back or trade-in. You won't be able to change your mind after 20 days before the appointment and its within the 20 day period before the appointment that you will get your offer. What if you look at the offer and decide you would rather wait for a fix (too bad according to how the agreement is presently written).

I pointed this out in an email to one of our class lawyers. Have not heard back yet.

 

[ElectricMayhem]

I extended the work of bmcmullin, incorporating his diligent data entry and some of the logic. You can just select your car from a dropdown and enter a few parameters.

It does not take into account additions for equipment like nav. But the S/S should provide a decent outline of your options.

It does not do any calculations around outstanding loans, negative equity or similar.

On the point of whether you get a credit for low mileage, I have never heard of that so mileage is a penalty only, in the S/S.

Please PM with any comments or questions.

https://drive.google.com/open?id=0B-SAPEfNoYQjRkVyYUJXNmRyUTg

 

[Geekydaddy]

We paid $3300 to VW for extended warranty. Is there any hope of retrieving an amount of this (or not)as part of the class action ?

 

[Lucsar]

We paid $3300 to VW for extended warranty. Is there any hope of retrieving an amount of this (or not)as part of the class action ?

Not sure if it would help, but I would say contact class action lawyers(Strossberg, Ricepoint) depending on your area. I always thought these warranties were prorated and you could cancel up to a certain date, and get " X " amount of dollars back ? Hope this helps...

 

[haunruh]

I extended the work of bmcmullin, incorporating his diligent data entry and some of the logic. You can just select your car from a dropdown and enter a few parameters.

It does not take into account additions for equipment like nav. But the S/S should provide a decent outline of your options.

It does not do any calculations around outstanding loans, negative equity or similar.

On the point of whether you get a credit for low mileage, I have never heard of that so mileage is a penalty only, in the S/S.

Please PM with any comments or questions.

https://drive.google.com/open?id=0B-SAPEfNoYQjRkVyYUJXNmRyUTg

Thanks for the good work!!

 

[GoFaster]

We paid $3300 to VW for extended warranty. Is there any hope of retrieving an amount of this (or not)as part of the class action ?

You can get a pro-rated refund of unused extended warranty if it came from a reputable provider. If you bought the warranty through VW, that's who you need to ask how to obtain a pro-rated refund.

 

[Armby]

I extended the work of bmcmullin, incorporating his diligent data entry and some of the logic. You can just select your car from a dropdown and enter a few parameters.

It does not take into account additions for equipment like nav. But the S/S should provide a decent outline of your options.

It does not do any calculations around outstanding loans, negative equity or similar.

On the point of whether you get a credit for low mileage, I have never heard of that so mileage is a penalty only, in the S/S.

Please PM with any comments or questions.

https://drive.google.com/open?id=0B-SAPEfNoYQjRkVyYUJXNmRyUTg

This is great work. I think it gives us a pretty good estimate based on the data and assumptions we have.

One thing I noticed is that the damages amount is not being looked up properly from the table. At least it didn't for me.

Thanks.

 

[ElectricMayhem]

This is great work. I think it gives us a pretty good estimate based on the data and assumptions we have.

One thing I noticed is that the damages amount is not being looked up properly from the table. At least it didn't for me.

Thanks.

Thanks for the kind words. I'd like to fix the problem you noticed. Which car is not getting looked up properly? The value is supposed to come from the blue-coloured table on the right, and I entered the numbers myself so there might well be a mistake.

 

[Armby]

Not sure if it would help, but I would say contact class action lawyers(Strossberg, Ricepoint) depending on your area. I always thought these warranties were prorated and you could cancel up to a certain date, and get " X " amount of dollars back ? Hope this helps...

Note that Ricepoint is the court appointed claims administrator and not a class lawyer. The full list of class lawyers can be found near the end of the Long Form Notice.

 

[Lucsar]

Note that Ricepoint is the court appointed claims administrator and not a class lawyer. The full list of class lawyers can be found near the end of the Long Form Notice.

Thanks for pointing that out, must have confused it .... My bad

 

[ElectricMayhem]

One thing I noticed is that the damages amount is not being looked up properly from the table. At least it didn't for me.

Thanks for this. I found the error and fixed it. It should work now.

New link:

https://drive.google.com/open?id=0B-SAPEfNoYQjZ3Nubjd1Yk9DUk0

 

[Armby]

Thanks for the kind words. I'd like to fix the problem you noticed. Which car is not getting looked up properly? The value is supposed to come from the blue-coloured table on the right, and I entered the numbers myself so there might well be a mistake.

I have a 2013 Golf Hatchback Comfortlne. I looked at cell J24 and it seems to just be set to "=5100". Also, Cell K29 which does a lookup does not seem to be working properly. It gives me $5100 when it should be $5500 for my vehicle.

 

[Armby]

Thanks for this. I found the error and fixed it. It should work now.
New link:
https://drive.google.com/open?id=0B-SAPEfNoYQjZ3Nubjd1Yk9DUk0

OK thanks, Works for me now. Great response, you fixed it before I gave you the details.....If only VW will be so responsive!

 

[KARKS]

Thank you for the calculator! Amazing that the Class Lawyers and VW couldn't have done something similar to provide owners with some type of estimated values.

 

[habsfan]

OK thanks, Works for me now. Great response, you fixed it before I gave you the details.....If only VW will be so responsive!

I have a 2015 Highline but your tool does not appear to show the high value of $28800, only the low value of $23725 and medium value of $24850. Table 2 of Exhibit 5 of the draft settlement agreement shows the upper value for a 2015 TDI Sportwagon to be $29214 which is close to the Highline with Auto Transmission.

Why is the upper value not shown in your tool as a possibility?

 

[srow]

Would the "High" value be equivalent to the "Clean" KBB value used in the US settlement?

 

[Armby]

I have a 2015 Highline but your tool does not appear to show the high value of $28800, only the low value of $23725 and medium value of $24850. Table 2 of Exhibit 5 of the draft settlement agreement shows the upper value for a 2015 TDI Sportwagon to be $29214 which is close to the Highline with Auto Transmission.
Why is the upper value not shown in your tool as a possibility?

Everyone has to recognize that while the spreadsheet does the best that can be done given the info that has been gleaned from the pics uploaded on the FB page we still do not have a full understanding of how the claims process will evaluate our TDIs.

Outstanding issues that are the responsibility of the VW, Class lawyers and the court to clarify are:

(1) what are the exact numbers to be used for the Sept 2015 values. The FB data shows a low/high range covering condition, but quotes from the process will be a definitive $ amount and will be given to you 20 days before your buy-back appointment, prior to anyone having seen the condition of your car. Condition is not a qualifier used to determine value according to the settlement language

(2) how is mileage to be treated. The spreadsheet uses a prorating calculation to estimate the mileage as of Sept 2015 which is a logical and fair way of doing it. That is not how the vague description in the settlement agreement describes the adjustment (except if you are in the "maximum (unquantified) mileage category). Note that the mileage adjustment in the spreadsheet only deducts a penalty for high mileage but doesn't give a credit for low mileage. That puts a cap on the maximum value the spreadsheet will show which is significantly below the maximum in Table 2 of Exhibit 5 so I believe there is a credit but how it will be calculated is not clear.​

Note also the the spreadsheet is not doing the adds and deductions for options identified in the FB pages. You will have to do this manually.

Also, the maximum in Tables 2 Exhibit 5 should represent the highest trimline (Highline) with all the options and the lowest mileage category (which I don't think is properly accounted for in the SS as mentioned above, because we do not know how that works).