The chicken game, as I see it, is for those of us that are considering keeping the car and got the notice we have drivers side Takata airbags. When will VW replace them? There has been no notice on that. Not the kind of game of chicken I like to play.So as I now understand,if I keep the car and want the fix, the 5K is only if they even come out with one. Kinda playing chicken game
Dieselgate, The Canadian Edition
- Thread starter Ursadorable
- Start date
flyboy320
Veteran Member
I believe in the US if you decide to keep the car you get 2/3 of the money now and the other 1/3 when its fixed. But if it can't be fixed, what then, do you HAVE to sell it back to them?I also have a gen 1, and I agree, there might not be a fix, too costly for VW.
So as I now understand,if I keep the car and want the fix, the 5K is only if they even come out with one. Kinda playing chicken game
GoFaster
Moderator at Large
That is only for the 2015 models, for which a two-stage fix is expected. The prior models get a one-stage fix with a single payment upon completion.
In the 45 states that accepted cash from VW's compensation fund, these cars can continue to be driven, whether "fixed" or not. The other 5 states can deny registration if the fix isn't done. If there is no "fix" then people can either opt for buyback and get paid same as now, or do nothing and get nothing and keep on driving in 45 states. In the other 5 states they'll have to come off the road, either buyback, or sell the car to someone in one of the 45 states.
tomakathestig
Active member
- Joined
- Jun 2, 2009
- Location
- Vancouver,Canada
- TDI
- 09, Highline Jetta 12 Highline Passat....I wish my wife was as dirty as my TDI
Sort of unrelated directly to this but great just the same.........
Why Diesel rocks:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kpZQPN9ONu0
Why Diesel rocks:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kpZQPN9ONu0
Armby
Veteran Member
Incorrect. In the US for 2015 TDIs you get 2/3 of the money if there is a fix approved and only when you get the first stage of the fix done. Then 1/3 when you get stage 2 done. For earlier generations its all in one stage and you get the money only when you get the fix.
There is no approved fix for any generation yet so its all just possibilities.
canada_man
Well-known member
CBB values from Sept 2015 were posted in the Facebook group. The instructions for interpretation are also posted. Hopefully this works:
https://www.facebook.com/groups/534331546750939/permalink/601917429992350/
https://www.facebook.com/groups/534331546750939/permalink/601917429992350/
Wheats
Active member
That is awesome! thank you
canada_man
Well-known member
I must say, I was slightly disheartened. Even the high wholesale value is $5k less than the high value listed in the settlement.
It will be interesting to see what others think.
It will be interesting to see what others think.
ElectricMayhem
Veteran Member
Settlement estimate spreadsheet including the Sept 2015 CBB data:
https://drive.google.com/open?id=0B-SAPEfNoYQjZllkSUxDWkxzU1E
https://drive.google.com/open?id=0B-SAPEfNoYQjZllkSUxDWkxzU1E
volks27
Veteran Member
As I learned from CBC marketplace, even if you buy a new car today, there is still a good chance that it has the "defective" airbag in it.
https://www.cars.com/articles/which-new-cars-still-have-takata-airbag-inflators-1420689912742/
Nice job on checking the library for the back issues of the CBB. Never crossed my mind.
So I ran my numbers again using the CBB and I came up with a number that was ~$775 short of the number I got using my interpolation method posted earlier.
So here is my question? If you are under the industry standard mileage of 24K/year do you get to increase the value of the vehicle by the mileage calculation? The explanation from the book assumes you are over mileage, but doesn't explicitly say it also goes the other way.
So for example I am 15000K under the standard for the number of days my car has been on the road. 15K x 0.05 (from the book) = $768 which if i add to my base number puts me at right where I estimated i should be.
It's also the only way I see that any car would ever be able to get close to the max values posted from the settlement values. I.E. you bought a car and never drove it anywhere.
So the last piece missing is really to explain the difference between the max. wholesale CBB value of car doing 24Kkm/year which yields zero CBB mileage deduction and buyback suggested range. VW buyback ranges must have something built in to benefit owners who travel less than 24K / year, otherwise I could never get to the maximum of the range they provided. The gap is big, about 4K$ in my case ...
ElectricMayhem
Veteran Member
Those screenshots are due to a great guy in Montreal called Derrick Kostiner. I just copy/pasted them.
Yes, the CBB numbers do not totally line up with the Exhibit. But these are the best CBB numbers we have today.
Would be nice but I don't think it works that way in the wholesale market.
There is a related question around whether the 24k/a benchmark is applied in terms of years-in-service or model year. I bet it is model year.
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Well Kudos to Derrick Kostiner then.
I really don't see any other way to make the CBB line up with the posted amounts if you can't add value for being under the industry standard mileage. There is also no other way to explain why a car with less mileage is always more expensive than one with higher mileage. Other than demand for cars with lower mileage that is.
And yes I used service years calculated by original date on the road to scandal date. Which if I'm not mistaken is how they were backdating the mileage from the settlment?
It still puts me under if you go by model year, just not by as much. And if you can still add that to the base amount from CBB I'd only be $500ish under my original estimate. I for one am not going to quibble over that. Good-bye car, I ain't gonna miss you.
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My car did 120K between Dec 09 and Sep 2015 .... that is 24K less than CBB base ... even if I add value (which the book doesn't say to do) 0.08 x 24000=1920$ ... added to the high wholesale of 14625$ = 16545$ ... I add 350$ for sunroof and you are at 17K ... still some $1500 off the max figure in exhibit 5.
I don't complain at all, just saying that there's still a gap even if I award myself mileage money, which is something CBB book doesn't say to do, thus I have no clue if the exhibit 5 has used the same. Maybe they used higher number then 0.08$ per km??
I don't complain at all, just saying that there's still a gap even if I award myself mileage money, which is something CBB book doesn't say to do, thus I have no clue if the exhibit 5 has used the same. Maybe they used higher number then 0.08$ per km??
Yes but what I'm saying is what if your car had no mileage, or say you only drove 20K between purchase and scandal. If you run the numbers then you you would be closer or over the highest settlement amount published. ( I assume there has to be an upper limit somewhere)
So your car doesn't get close to the max because you actually drove it. But what if someone else didn't, then they might be able to get close to the max amount posted.
flyboy320
Veteran Member
Sorry for my ignorance, but what value is offered for the buy back, is it the wholesale number or retail number?
Sure, if they calculated that max. value is based on cars with 10K driven/year or so .... misleading to put a bloated range like that out (without disclosing how you arrived to it) when the 20K/year is the realistic minimum for 99% of people who buy these vehicles.
Again though, the CBB methodology does not say to add value as 0.05$ x diff in kms against their base. So we can only assume thanks to VW, lawyers and the judge.
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Wholesale, of course ... LOL
Armby
Veteran Member
Nice job! Just want to double-check. I didn't see anything in those attached photos that indicates these are values for TDIs. How do we know we are not looking at gas models.
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They are there. Both gas and TDI just look at the description on each line. It says TDI on the appropriate ones at the end.
Misleading for the masses, perhaps. But it is still a valid point that someone may not have ever driven there very economical gas mileage vehicle anywhere but the corner store and only on Sundays. You have to cover all the eventualities even though most of us likely fall in a much higher range.
Armby
Veteran Member
Right you are. I only looked under Trendline before jumping to that conclusion. Thanks
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Armby
Veteran Member
One more question. Are these wholesale or trade-in values?
Armby
Veteran Member
Answered my own question. It is wholesale. It's at the top of some of the pages
Armby
Veteran Member
After looking at the CBB wholesale values I am also disappointed and confused. I have no idea how the high value in table 5 of the settlement docs relates to these CBB values unless you can add $.05 (for a golf with 0 km on the odo) for every km below the 24,000 km per year.
I also don't see how this $/km mileage adjustment factor relates to the condition categories that are talked about in the settlement.
I wish that VW and Class Council would clear this up by simply publishing all the details like was done in the US.
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I also don't see how this $/km mileage adjustment factor relates to the condition categories that are talked about in the settlement.
I wish that VW and Class Council would clear this up by simply publishing all the details like was done in the US.
Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk