Chirp Free and Happy

wsalopek

Veteran Member
Joined
May 10, 2000
Location
Albuquerque, NM, USA
TDI
1997 Passat Grey
OK...I spent the money....did the changeout...and I still have the chirping.

I say again, I still have the chirping.

How utterly depressing.

This ain't the fix guys...I think it was just luck that some folks got the chirp to stop doing this changeout...maybe messing around with belts or whatever made the chirp go away for a while?
 

paramedick

TDIClub Enthusiast, Vendor
Joined
Jul 29, 2001
Location
Versailles, Kentucky
TDI
2015 Audi Q5 TDI
Relay roller 028 145 278 E
Protective Cap 028 145 291 A
Tensioning Lever 028 903 308 G
Dust cap x 2 028 903 310
Tensioner 028 903 315 R

I just ordered all the above from 1stvwparts.com. Substantially cheaper than anyone else I checked.
 

wsalopek

Veteran Member
Joined
May 10, 2000
Location
Albuquerque, NM, USA
TDI
1997 Passat Grey
Relay roller 028 145 278 E
Protective Cap 028 145 291 A
Tensioning Lever 028 903 308 G
Dust cap x 2 028 903 310
Tensioner 028 903 315 R

I just ordered all the above from 1stvwparts.com. Substantially cheaper than anyone else I checked.
What was the approx total cost?...and do you know how hard this job is and/or how long it takes?

Thanks...
 

paramedick

TDIClub Enthusiast, Vendor
Joined
Jul 29, 2001
Location
Versailles, Kentucky
TDI
2015 Audi Q5 TDI
Relay roller 028 145 278 E $22.28
Protective Cap 028 145 291 A $1.08
Tensioning Lever 028 903 308 G $24.43
Dust cap x 2 028 903 310 $2.21 ea
Tensioner 028 903 315 R $33.66

I just ordered all the above from 1stvwparts.com. Substantially cheaper than anyone else I checked.
What was the approx total cost?...and do you know how hard this job is and/or how long it takes?

Thanks...
Probably about an hour to replace. Parts all easy to get to. Mine isn't here yet.
 

garthbreaks

Member
Joined
May 3, 2005
Location
Toronto, Ontario, Canada
TDI
1995 Passat Variant (CDN)
Could anyone describe the chirp to me?
I've noticed an intermittant chirp with my B4 Passat, though I can't help but to think it's tied to the brakes - it goes away every time I step on the brake pedal...
Thanks!
 

jck66

Top Post Dawg
Joined
Jan 4, 2001
Location
Greenwich, CT, USA
TDI
12 Passat SE / 14 BMW 535d
Chirping in time with the engine at idle, pronounced on cold starts and (for me) when using the a/c. Goes away when the engine revs.

Definitely not related to brakes.
 

nhdude

Veteran Member
Joined
Jul 11, 2005
Location
New Hampshire
TDI
2011 JSW 6M gone back to VWoA, 1996 Passat Wagon (RIP)
Yeah, I couldn't find the pulley there either. Got mine from Autohaus.
 

paramedick

TDIClub Enthusiast, Vendor
Joined
Jul 29, 2001
Location
Versailles, Kentucky
TDI
2015 Audi Q5 TDI
thumbs down to 1stvwparts.com. Their search engines is useless. I spend an hour every day looking for parts at work, I damn sure don't want to do it at home.
Yup, that's why I get all the part #s from ETKA before I log onto their site. Useless search feature, but great prices if you have the #s.

BTW, got my pulley from Autohaus also. They, too, have great prices and nice customer service.
 

Lug_Nut

TDIClub Enthusiast, Pre-Forum Veteran Member
Joined
Jun 20, 1998
Location
Sterling, Massachusetts. USA
TDI
idi: 1988 Bolens DGT1700H, the other oil burner: 1967 Saab Sonett II two stroke
Mine took three or four successive morning applications of stop-squeal belt dressing. It hasn't squealed since, going on about two months. This even though the temperature has gotten much colder AND I've restored electrical load by re-activating the coolant heaters.
The spray was effective for me and far less costly than the pully replacement remedy.
My chirp is back, and with a vengeance. Note: I never attempted the pulley change, just the aerosol belt dressing. Cold weather is upon us and the diesel birds have returned to roost under my hood.

Time to spray again.
 

jollyGreenGiant

Veteran Member
Joined
Feb 3, 2003
Location
MA
TDI
03 Golf TDI GLS ( my 5th TDI ), 03 Eurovan GLS - VR6 :(
I think it's kind of an overall design failure that doesn't take into account overall parts wearing. Look at the A4 design and/or the G60 serpentine design, they both have hydraulic ( I think they're hydraulic, never taken one apart ) damper to help dampen the vibration present in the belt. I think generally the only way to completely get rid of this issue ( and this is only as temporary as the car would have been as new ) would be to replace all the parts associated with the serpentine drive ( including alternator ). The other option would be to somehow retrofit an ALH or G60 tensioner w/damper to the 1Z/AHU engines...not sure if this is possible but I bet having that hydraulic dampening would go a long way towards keeping the oscillations in the belt at bay, it's these oscillations that are causing the squeaking... when the engine has a power stroke the belt accelerates and the tensioner either tightens or weakens it's force, after the power stroke is over, the belt decelerates and the tensioner does the opposite ( once again not sure if its strengthen or weaken force ). If the timing is just right, you'll get a harmonic effect where the belt is beginning it's moment of need for the most tension whereas the tensioner is at a moment when the tensioner is at its least tensioned, the right RPM, the harmonic sets up and whalla slippage and squeaking...

This is my theory and I'm sticking to it. The fact that the tensioner has lost much of its OE tension force combined with crankshaft vibration damper having less dampening capability due to rubber deterioration as well as alt. bearings adding drag and essentially the whole car having less than perfect grounds requiring the alternator to produce more amperage over time, etc. It is a cumulative effect as far as I can tell. Oh, and they are diesels so the power strokes are that much more pronounced than a gasser, in the cold weather, the engine will decelerate faster between power strokes due to increased friction and drag, setting up a stronger harmonic.

By the way, this quick acceleration/decelleration of RPM is how a misfire monitor works in a gasser, the ECM monitors the amount of RPM each cylinder provided to the crankshaft each revolution, if the RPM increase per cylinder is not equal to the spec. and/or is less than the other cylinders, the ECM determines the cylinder at fault and then sets a misfire code for that cylinder...

Thoughts?
 

Lug_Nut

TDIClub Enthusiast, Pre-Forum Veteran Member
Joined
Jun 20, 1998
Location
Sterling, Massachusetts. USA
TDI
idi: 1988 Bolens DGT1700H, the other oil burner: 1967 Saab Sonett II two stroke
My chirp is back, and with a vengeance. Note: I never attempted the pulley change, just the aerosol belt dressing. Cold weather is upon us and the diesel birds have returned to roost under my hood.

Time to spray again.
Finally! A new belt, new tensioner, cleaned and greased the hanger rod, lubed the idler bearing. Quiet. Finally! I believe the tensioner is the major factor. The new one has smoother movement, and applies noticeably more force, than the 201k mile one I removed.
Let's see if tomorrow morning (25F) is equally quiet as when I completed the work this evening.
 

Lug_Nut

TDIClub Enthusiast, Pre-Forum Veteran Member
Joined
Jun 20, 1998
Location
Sterling, Massachusetts. USA
TDI
idi: 1988 Bolens DGT1700H, the other oil burner: 1967 Saab Sonett II two stroke
Yeppers, just as quiet. One cool morning done, 1800 mornings to go (based on 200k miles at 40k/year).
 

nhdude

Veteran Member
Joined
Jul 11, 2005
Location
New Hampshire
TDI
2011 JSW 6M gone back to VWoA, 1996 Passat Wagon (RIP)
Tensioner

Yup, that's it. My replacement should be arriving UPS in the next coupla days :)
 

saabguru

Veteran Member
Joined
Mar 4, 2001
Location
The Capital of the Great State of Texas
Well, after the pulley was changed, the chirp left for a few days, then, RETURNED! I finally installed the new tensioner on it, along with cleaning and re-lubing the relay bar/hanger for the pulley. The old one felt really gummed up. It still sqealed afterwards, but that was cured with a good long drive, (200 miles) to burn all the excess belt dressing off. This belt is always on the edge of squealing- it's quite prone to it. Another high maintenance item.
 

BldgCode

Active member
Joined
Jun 28, 2005
Location
Virginia City Highlands, NV
TDI
Passat-1996-Green
garthbreaks said:
Could anyone describe the chirp to me?
I've noticed an intermittant chirp with my B4 Passat, though I can't help but to think it's tied to the brakes - it goes away every time I step on the brake pedal...
Thanks!
I had this problem after putting on Snow tires & Wheels. Used an impact wrench. Bought a Torque wrench & lossened all lug bolts & retorqued to 90 ft lbs. Problem solved.
HTH
Bob F
 

97TDIStu

Veteran Member
Joined
Jan 1, 2005
Location
Pennsylvania
TDI
2013 Jetta TDI Premium
I have the same problem with the screach as well as the chirp. I don't believe the screaching is due to the alternator bearings in that I thought the same thing after replacing THREE serpentine pulleys ( two of which were from Impex). I then replaced the tensioner itself , also from Impex. Did not do the trick either and noticed an ever so slight play in the alternator pulley when the belt was off. REPLACED the alternator $269.00 AUTOZONE rebuilt, to no avail. I believe that my chirping may actually be caused by the lever ( the bar that pulley is mounted to and sticks in to the tensioner). It seems somewhat scored in the two spots where it rubs against the sleeve that it rides in. As for your/ our Screaching , I get that too and it is awful. I find I have to rev the car to get it to stop doing it faster than it would on its own. I think that might actually be the AC clutch that's going bad, I just don't know. It happens even w/o the air on and when a load is placed on the engine electrically like doing 2 windows at once. Perplexed at this point but I know it wasn't the alternator. So basically I think there are two things going on here. The chirping and the screaching which are two distinctly different problems. I can't stand the chirping and desperately are hoping that it is the lever bar itself since I've aleady changed the pulley once myself and two times at my mechanic prior. and changed the tensioner myself. Unless Impex is giving me bad parts, I don't know what else it could be. The lever bar itself costs about $35.00 at the dealer. The "chirping and the screaching", ... sounds like a bad edgar Allen Poe theme. Might sound funny to the rest of you but it's like water torture to hear it live. Any other ideas??? Please advise. I plan to install the lever bar in a day or so.
 

97TDIStu

Veteran Member
Joined
Jan 1, 2005
Location
Pennsylvania
TDI
2013 Jetta TDI Premium
Just one more thing. maybe it's not like Edgar Allen Poe. How about this, ... imagine Brando in Apocalypse Now......now replace "the horror" at the end of the movie with" the screaching and the chirping". That's how much this S@$#^ is driving me crazy. I Can't take the sound anymore. I hear it at night when I sleep. 248,000 plus miles. Maybe I need some lithium, for my brain not to lube the car. LOL
 

97TDIStu

Veteran Member
Joined
Jan 1, 2005
Location
Pennsylvania
TDI
2013 Jetta TDI Premium
Ok, so what you are all saying is that the tensioner , lever and, pulley near the alterntor at the TOP of the engine is NOT the CAUSE of the problem. It is the EFFECT caused by the balancer ( not to confused with the tensioner puller) . AND this "balancer" is on the bottom part of the belt route on the crankshaft pulley itself? Someone please advise. Am I clear on this?
 

redmondjp

Veteran Member
Joined
Jul 1, 2004
Location
Redmond, WA
TDI
'96 Passat Sedan
97TDIStu said:
Ok, so what you are all saying is that the tensioner , lever and, pulley near the alterntor at the TOP of the engine is NOT the CAUSE of the problem. It is the EFFECT caused by the balancer ( not to confused with the tensioner puller) . AND this "balancer" is on the bottom part of the belt route on the crankshaft pulley itself? Someone please advise. Am I clear on this?
If you have read this entire thread, as well as the several others on belt noise, you will find that indeed there are multiple potential causes of squeaking noise--anything wrong in the belt drive system which results in the belt loosening can cause belt slippage with the resulting noise.

What several people have found is that, even with a brand-new belt, tensioner spring, and tensioner pulley roller, the squeaking still exists.

If you look at the pictures of the original and new-design harmonic damper pulley back on page 2 of this thread, you will see a difference in how the torque is transmitted from the crankshaft to the belt. In the original design (shown on the left), the pulley is built into the outer ring (the actual dampener weight) which is coupled to the inner part of the pulley (which is bolted to the crankshaft) VIA A THIN RING OF RUBBER. When the rubber gets old, and when it's cold, the rubber slips a bit every time one of the cylinders fires, causing a squeak. When the rubber warms up a bit, it expands and the slipping and squeaking stops.

With the new-design damper, the pulley is DIRECTLY COUPLED to the crankshaft, and the dampener weight is INSIDE the dampener, still coupled by the rubber ring. There is no possibility for pulley slippage with this new design, and hence is no squeaking! When the vehicle is cold, there is a high load on the alternator (recharge battery, run coolant and engine glow plugs, defroster fan, rear window defrost, etc) which really puts a load on the serpentine belt.

So it's actually the rubber ring in the old-design dampener pulley which is making the noise, not the belt.

Does this help to explain things a bit? Like I said before, this is only one possible cause of a squeaking noise, but it was definitely the source on my vehicle.

It's also very important to clean and relubricate the two bronze bushings (inside the aluminum bracket which holds the alternator and A/C compressor) which guide the belt tensioner arm--on my car, the grease had all dried and the arm was literally stuck in one place--it was so bound up that even the tensioner spring couldn't overcome the friction. I removed the rod (helps to remove the airbox first), cleaned out the bushings with solvent and foam-tipped 6" long swabs, replaced both the seals at each end of the rod, and lubricated the bushings with high-temperature silicone grease (sylglide), being super careful not to get any grease anywhere near the belt or pulleys.

'Tis the season for the squeak-squeak-squeak! :)
 

97TDIStu

Veteran Member
Joined
Jan 1, 2005
Location
Pennsylvania
TDI
2013 Jetta TDI Premium
Thanks redmondjp,
I have the new balancer on order and will replace it soon. Hope it's not too hard of a job. Thanks again.
 

97TDIStu

Veteran Member
Joined
Jan 1, 2005
Location
Pennsylvania
TDI
2013 Jetta TDI Premium
Fixed And Quiet!!!

I replaced the crankshaft balancer as well as the tensioner lever on the idler pulley above. Did the trick. However, had trouble with one of the four hex head bolts on the pulley itself. Ended up having to drill off the bolt head to get off the pulley. Also noted that there were only three hex head bolts holding it on. Apparently, my mechanic must have cannibalized one of them when he replaced my water pump the last time he did my timing belt. Replaced all the hex head bolts with torx bolts. Note to others: It's best to remove the right tire to get a better access to the 6mm hex head bolts. Also, don't use an "L" shaped Allen wrench. Use a socket wrench with a 6mm hex head attchment socket. I sprayed some PB Blaster onto the bolts and the old balancer was so bad that when some of the blaster got into the rubber part of the old balancer, it totally seperated and spun freely. I found that to be amazing. It's amazing that my alternator and AC was turning at all prior to replacement of the balancer. I guess PB Blaster really loosens things. Take care and thanks to all for your posts! My next project will be the 250,000 mile oil/ filter change with air filter and water seperator bleed. Had the car since new I 1997 and it won't even come close to dying!!!!
 

dboard9

Well-known member
Joined
Oct 28, 2002
Location
Sacramento, CA
TDI
Passat B4 TDI 1996 White
I'm told that belt dressing on a serpentine belt is a no-no.
The increased friction will tear up the little grooves.
Use it only on V-belts.
 

trhaverstock

Well-known member
Joined
Jan 7, 2004
Location
Quincy, Illinois
TDI
1996 Passat TDI Windsor Blue
I just wanted to mention that I followed twob4s five steps to the letter and viola - no chirps - the flock of birds is gone!! I replaced the crankshaft pulley with the new part number 028 105 243T. A few observations:

1. Tools: you need a T25 torx screwdriver and 10mm socket to remove the pan, a 6mm hex bit socket to remove the pulley.

2. I pryed the serpentine belt tensioner up with a super big channel lock pliers.

3. The pulley prys out (gently) with a screwdriver. DON'T remove the 19mm bolt underneath it.

4. Save yourself 15 minutes of screwing around - there is only one way that the 4 holes line up so keep spinning the pulley until all 4 (and not just 2) line up!

5. It took me about 45 mins to do the job.

I can now enjoy peace and quiet again! ...Unless it comes back!

-Todd
96 B4 155K miles
 

RIP TDI

Top Post Dawg
Joined
Feb 16, 2000
Location
Santa Barbara, CA
TDI
'15 GSW SE 6MT...... '01 Golf GLS 5MT.... '96 Passat Variant....
trhaverstock said:
I can now enjoy peace and quiet again! ...Unless it comes back!
It will, but not for a few years. In the interim you can watch the pulley as the oscillation returns and grows larger over time until finally, the chirp returns, just like the swallows to Capistrano!
 

TDI Jim

Veteran Member
Joined
Jul 10, 2006
Location
Gaithersburg, Maryland
TDI
1996 Passat, 1996 Passat Variant (RIP), 2002 Jetta Wagon, 1995 Passat Variant TDI conversion brought back from the dead, 1997 Passat Variant project, and returned 2014 Passat
Another potential cause is a water pump bearing starting to go bad as well. At 190,000 I replaced the harmonic balancer on my 1Z as well as the water pump (which did have a bearing starting to go bad), the tensioner pulley and cleaned the rod and regreased it and all my belt problems solved. Glad you got it nailed down! Don't worry about replacing the alternator...mine makes some noise on cold startup now, so only a matter of time before I have to replace it as well on general mileage principals...better than running your battery down and getting stuck someplace this winter!
 
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