Burpod Tuning

[burpod]

The term "stages" is for the masses to more easily grasp anyway. A better way to name them would be a 70mg tune or 120mg tune, since the amount of injected fuel is a far better differentiator between power levels. But it's not really data that most people care to think about..they just want it to feel faster.

On topic though, @burpod has been fun to work with on my old Jetta. Definitely would recommend!

don't want to get into it too much as it can quickly spiral but it depends on the tuner and the engine. for "some" tunes the stage name basically corresponds to the boost level. doesn't matter what fueling you have. a stage 3 calls for XXXX boost max, stage 4 calls for YYY boost. at least as far as VE/PD tunes go. so if you have 10mm/.215s or 11mm/.215s you get the same exact tune, the boost is the same. so go hammer mod and figure it out lol see if you can make it right

 

[Nevada_TDI]

Yesterday I made a couple of 40 mile plus trips. I stayed within the parameters Burpod asked; no long WOT runs
I will say this is the best experience in a long time, no soot, great acceleration, and no hiccups out or back.
I did have to be careful as the muscle memory in leg kept giving too much throttle. I could have gotten a speeding ticket or two not realizing I was past 80 with little throttle. I realize this a good thing...

 

[Nuje]

An additional thing I've noticed with his tunes, too, is that using RESUME on cruise is a much smoother acceleration; previous (Malone) tunes always felt like it was accelerating way more aggressively than I'd want. If I want to accelerate hard to get up to speed, I put my foot on the pedal, but after slowing down for a speed zone change and then getting back up to speed, this feels perfect.

 

[dieseldonato]

We passed revision 4 like 6 revisions ago. Then again I don't mind trying different things to see how the car reacts.

 

[Nuje]

I'm no expert, but I know enough to say that without the proper amount of fuel, delivered at precisely the right moment, that "simple call for 26psi" isn't going to give you optimal results.

Boost is one component of optimal power delivery and I used to think that was the only thing that mattered; I've since figured out that pointing a drying fan at a campfire while randomly spraying gasoline at the fire probably isn't going to give me the super-hot coals I want for cooking my steaks.

I knew going in with @burpod that this was essentially beta-testing. I didn't expect things to work perfectly all the time; expected some regressions along the way - all part of the process of learning (which, for me, is fun).

 

[dieseldonato]

This was my original, first log Malone 5 (pretty sure stage5) vs the latest I got from burpod after countless hrs and logging time and gas. I'm not an expert but know how to look at the boost. I bought a stage 5 and 17/22 to handle higher boost = more power. Good thing I'm not working I was on it sending him or trying to whatever he asked risking bricking my ecu in process each time

Why would there be any risk of bricking your ecu vs another tune? It's a simple process and the same thing you need to do using any tuner. Only difference is you got a fancy flash programmer vs the mppsv18. They do the same thing at the end of the day.

 

[dieseldonato]

You should be able to push 27psi max safely with that turbo. According to turbo man's site.
From my experience with burpod he starts with less boost till there are a bunch of logs to make sure everything is in working order. Then starts tweaking things from there. It's a process, feedback from me. Making small changes hear and there till the overall tune is right. Yes it takes time. Fortunately neither burpod or I have been in a hurry, we're both busy and we both understand that. can't make everyone happy.

 

[Nuje]

FWIW, I was testing some stuff for Malone a while back and bricked an ECU; so - can happen with anyone.

 

[lemoncurd]

FWIW
Been doing this since, oh, 2009 or so

are you able to do it to EDC17's for CR's?
is there a specific ECU PN i need for it?
honestly i'd be willing to buy another ECU if it had the ability to store multiple tunes on it

 

[GlowBugTDI]

Without responding to the last however many posts I'm just going to say @Tdipwr11 if you don't like uploading new files with newer revisions, true tuning isn't for you. This is exactly what tuning is..... and considering your mod's your pretty much past a single load tune.

Don't know what problems your having but if you still have low boost it's because either A. burpod still has you in a safe revision till things get worked out, or B your not reaching target boost for a mechanical reason. Have you been communicating thoroughly what is going on? When telling him how it is performing you need to be as descriptive as possible! This is essential since he can't actually be there to feel how the car feel's. You have to give him a ride in the car through words and explanations. Good communication is key to having the best your car can be!

 

[GlowBugTDI]

It seemed everyone and burpod himself really pushed the tune on me discrediting my observations from xman quality products which are in fact true.

So your saying it's not burpods tune but in fact Xman turbo? If that is actually the case why are you still trying to run the turbo? Also "really pushed the tune on me" dude it's your own car... you have the say over what happens with your car. If you didn't want to do it you didn't have to nobody here forced you. People here are just trying to help. All anyone was trying to do was to tell you to give the car one last chance (because you said you were giving up on the car) and send burpod your file so he could set you up.

 

[jmodge]

Without responding to the last however many posts I'm just going to say @Tdipwr11 if you don't like uploading new files with newer revisions, true tuning isn't for you. This is exactly what tuning is..... and considering your mod's your pretty much past a single load tune.

Don't know what problems your having but if you still have low boost it's because either A. burpod still has you in a safe revision till things get worked out, or B your not reaching target boost for a mechanical reason. Have you been communicating thoroughly what is going on? When telling him how it is performing you need to be as descriptive as possible! This is essential since he can't actually be there to feel how the car feel's. You have to give him a ride in the car through words and explanations. Good communication is key to having the best your car can be!

This post kinda relates to some questions I have about logging and relating the timing of operating info to Alex, such as the egt's, shuddering, smoking, accelerating, decel, cruising, towing, romping, and such and synching it to the log. You being a young fella who grew up in the tech age might have a thought I could ponder.
Since i will be doing my logs solo, I was wondering about recording my voice on the phone narrating what is going on and what I'm doing and then synchronizing the voice info to the logs so Alex could see or I could relate to him at what point in the log the above situations or driving conditions are happening.
Is my ramble clear enough that you know what I am asking, and do you have any suggestions? would the computor, VCDS, and my phone recording have the time documented so I could do this? Or is there a better, simpler way that would not make me want to throw my phone on the floor? Thanks.
BTW, Haven't started the process yet, just gathering info.

 

[burpod]

You could definitely use a phone recording to do this. If you start the phone recording and vcds log at the same time, when you go back home and watch the log in vc-scope you start playing that and your phone recording at the same time and it will be like you are reliving it so then you can look at the timestamp in the csv file and look at the actual numbers or make a note to look at timestamp x seconds for such and such behavior. I've thought of doing this myself but usually just end up going on memory.

You can also use the marker button for simplistic checkpoints to look at after the fact

Ive had plans to write up a pretty substantive document all about logging, and it really applies to tdi diagnosis/performance in general not just with tuning. Just not enough time in a day...

 

[jmodge]

Lack of Time, copy that. I’ve got some maintenance and changes to make before I do it.

 

[Nevada_TDI]

Years ago, I worked with a tuner that did the same thing: here's a tune, load it and log it, load it and log it, ad infinitum.
The first tune he wrote for me a "Stage 3", .205 nozzles and 18 PSI on my VNT-15, was just amazing: a boat ton of power and incredible FE.
When the turbo died, I had a hybrid made from it, at the time was way cheaper than a new VNT-15; then I got power hungry ( read: stupid ) and multiple revisions, different sized nozzles, and no matter what I did, It really had crap for power with all the fuel it was using, so I thought maybe I will try "the rhymes with bologna" guy. If I write his correct name the bots will find it. I had a miserable experience with him and the guy that no longer works for him, I don't know why and I won't ask as I think the guy that longer works for him difficult to work with. Maybe he is a good guy that just had to as he was told. I told him what I wanted specifically and the tune he sent was not it and it sucked. When I called him on it he wanted more money to revise it to what it was that I had asked for originally even though he kept half of my money... I will stop there.
I will say working with burpod has been great, I knew he wouldn't write one tune and be done with it, the guy that wrote my original tunes was a work in progress also. I will say one thing, okay maybe two, today I was in first gear about 2400 RPM and stabbed the throttle and broke the tires loose on dry pavement, that never happened before, and BTW, there was just barely a haze if any at all. He and I are still working on a few revisions, and as long as my power is phenomenal and the FE stays up, I am not going anywhere else.

 

[Fahrvegnugen]

<a href="https://log.tunezilla.com/s/p1KIvccq" class="link">Log #696178</a>

vnt15, .205 nozzles, 3.16 r&p 10 mm pump, stage 2 Malone

 

[ahldailydriver02]

Well I have to add my .02 experience with Burpod. First and foremost, his responsiveness is outstanding, never met a guy that is more responsive than he is! Secondly I have been having issues with my previous 3 tunes from a well known vendor and was recommended to reach out to Burpod, I am glad I did. Granted I have had to try a few tunes and multiple logs in his process, but its about the fine tuning. I am wanting FE and if the performance comes with it, then I guess I get my cake and I get to eat it too. Right now my current set up is 2003 tdi wagon 5 speed with .216 DLC1019 injectors, the current tune is amazing in all gears, it pulls hard and I have no fear of passing anyone either. Damn thing runs down the highway at 75 and seems like it wants to do more! Anyways we are in the process of dialing in the tune for FE, but I can compliment him enough for his hard diligent work. Once we get this one dialed in I have a second 2003 tdi wagon 5 speed with .205s and a vnt 15/17 hybrid we are going to dial in too. Burpod is very patient and willing to walk you through everything he is asking you to do. He probably has more patients than any other tuner I have worked with to be honest. I couldn't be happier than I am right now. Top notch guy for sure, and I wouldn't hesitate to recommend him to any of my friends. I could brag him up a bunch more, but I think everyone here already knows what I am saying.

 

[Nevada_TDI]

He probably has more patients than any other tuner I have worked with to be honest. I couldn't be happier than I am right now.

I know you meant patience, not the kind a Doctor has, but maybe he is the tune Doctor

I couldn't help it, I meant no offense. It is like when someone pronounces Caramel "carmel", no, Carmel is a city in California, Caramel happens
when sugar is heated to a certain temperature. Old Chef, old hangups.

 

[bigsexyTDI]

.205 nozzles and 18 PSI on my VNT-15, was just amazing: a boat ton of power and incredible FE.

vnt15, .205 nozzles, 3.16 r&p 10 mm pump, stage 2 Malone

We all know plenty more can be made, but there really is something to be said about how perfect of an all around combo this is for these cars... plenty of pep, great FE, excellent driveability... just good. Hell I ran it on an ancient Upsolute chipset for years and it was great....

 

[Votblindub]

Hopefully you have sticky enough tires that it wrinkles those before the pavement. You'll be flying!

I am currently on very regular street tires, but I am kind of hoping to get to the point where I would need the sticky tires.

 

[ahldailydriver02]

He probably has more patients than any other tuner I have worked with to be honest. I couldn't be happier than I am right now.

I know you meant patience, not the kind a Doctor has, but maybe he is the tune Doctor

I couldn't help it, I meant no offense. It is like when someone pronounces Caramel "carmel", no, Carmel is a city in California, Caramel happens
when sugar is heated to a certain temperature. Old Chef, old hangups.

Haha I didn't even catch what I wrote!! No offense taken, I am a nurse and when I use my phone I have pre-loaded words for voice texting that sometimes won't correct when I type them out. I can't believe I let that one slide, thanks for pointing it out, as I need to pay better attention when I am on this forum

 

[Nuje]

Haha I didn't even catch what I wrote!!

Similar to how your username contains either some kind of riff on everyone's favourite engine here, or a typo of ALH...?

 

[Tdipwr11]

+1 Burpod tuning - making very good progress and definitely works with you like no other! I have had heads lift and things happen with other tunes and I think I know why.. Burpod ensures to give you maximum power delivery, minimal smoke, better mpg, and longer lasting engine with your inputs and provided logs. It's definitely good changes that's foresure, good tuning & customer service

 

[ahldailydriver02]

Similar to how your username contains either some kind of riff on everyone's favourite engine here, or a typo of ALH...?

no riff, its my favorite engine too!! When I was creating my profile and coming up with names, it seemed like someone already had the same or similar name, so I just put AHL to create a name that I wanted, even though it makes no sense at all

 

[gboss]

Do any of the users who have these tunes have any videos or graphs or anything they'd like to share? I am very curious about the real-world results!

 

[Tdipwr11]

You want to see it or experience it for yourself? Both? Burpod I'm sure will work with you until your happy as he's doing for me, and it's been a learning experience but well worth it. I've been shown comparisons while in the talks of tuning with Burpod the differences in advance timing between his tunes and others and I've seen it in the logs myself and feel it driving. Car is much smoother, and it's safer now because of the timing changes alone. Less smoke = less egt. Before tuning be sure to check all intercooler piping, everything the best you can; fuel air bubbles etc..These cars can be touchy and throw you.off depending on what's going on, if it's something like a slight turbo actuator mis adjustnent burpod can work around that too a point so you don't have to mess with adjusting. It's pretty advanced stuff and takes patience, I really would trust his work after seeing/experience over anything else. I really feel as if the engine is safer and I have noticed better mpg, very good response, good power and were still fine tuning. This is to say the least pretty much.

 

[gboss]

You want to see it or experience it for yourself? Both? Burpod I'm sure will work with you until your happy as he's doing for me, and it's been a learning experience but well worth it. I've been shown comparisons while in the talks of tuning with Burpod the differences in advance timing between his tunes and others and I've seen it in the logs myself and feel it driving. .

I'd love to experience it and I do not doubt his tuning skills and his ability to work with folks. I'll likely hire him to do tuning for me as well. I understand the concept of what he's doing and it all makes sense. I'd just love to see a couple videos of the results, and if possible some before and after comparisons, e.g. fixing some wonky tunes from others. Can someone throw some videos up somewhere? Logs? Graphs?

 

[burpod]

i certainly plan to post some stuff up in the near future, along with some other fairly lengthy documents. just not enough time and this stuff is very time consuming to try to "get it right". also have been re-working some things so always processing more results and fine tuning. it's a slow-going endeavor. at the crux of it is getting the "pump map" (fueling) correct. if you were to have a calibrated pump map, which really needs lab equipment to get 100% right, the rest of it would be fairly straight-forward once you've reached a certain point of understanding... that + a dyno would make it infinitely easier, so therein lies the challenge

 

[gboss]

i certainly plan to post some stuff up in the near future, along with some other fairly lengthy documents. just not enough time and this stuff is very time consuming to try to "get it right". also have been re-working some things so always processing more results and fine tuning. it's a slow-going endeavor. at the crux of it is getting the "pump map" (fueling) correct. if you were to have a calibrated pump map, which really needs lab equipment to get 100% right, the rest of it would be fairly straight-forward once you've reached a certain point of understanding... that + a dyno would make it infinitely easier, so therein lies the challenge

Yes, from the reading I've done, it seems quite apparent that getting the N146 pump voltage map to be accurate for the pump + injector combo is the proper way to adjust fueling. If it's not 51mg/str, the ECU should know what it actually is. Then, the N75 Duty cycle map and boost target map shouldn't be too difficult to adjust for the new pressure levels when changing turbos. If those maps are right, the PID control should make the system critically damped and there should bew no problem keeping a steady boost (seriously, we put up with "boost creep" as an explanation all this time!?)

It just really blows my mind that after all these years the standard tunes didn't really touch the pump voltage map, even for the "custom" tunes the bigger names used. Feeding the ECU bad information (an improperly scale pump delivery map) is just going to compound errors as other values are calculated from the required IQ. No wonder some of these tunes could be so squirrely.

Anyway, I ordered a PLCC32 chip reader and burner. I guess I'll find out for myself soon. I just figured that there has have been logs and graphs going back and forth for incremental tuning that you all have done and I'm just really really curious. Distractedly curious.

Cheers!

 

[burpod]

Yes, from the reading I've done, it seems quite apparent that getting the N146 pump voltage map to be accurate for the pump + injector combo is the proper way to adjust fueling. If it's not 51mg/str, the ECU should know what it actually is. Then, the N75 Duty cycle map and boost target map shouldn't be too difficult to adjust for the new pressure levels when changing turbos. If those maps are right, the PID control should make the system critically damped and there should bew no problem keeping a steady boost (seriously, we put up with "boost creep" as an explanation all this time!?)

It just really blows my mind that after all these years the standard tunes didn't really touch the pump voltage map, even for the "custom" tunes the bigger names used. Feeding the ECU bad information (an improperly scale pump delivery map) is just going to compound errors as other values are calculated from the required IQ. No wonder some of these tunes could be so squirrely.

Anyway, I ordered a PLCC32 chip reader and burner. I guess I'll find out for myself soon. I just figured that there has have been logs and graphs going back and forth for incremental tuning that you all have done and I'm just really really curious. Distractedly curious.

Cheers!

yup. people definitely do fudge up the pump map. its really the wrong thing to do, but it depends on what pump/nozzles and where the QA is set to and what else they might be trying to accomplish by doing it. but that gets a little complicated and would be reserved for some more lengthy documents.. but not attempting to use "real" IQ (best guess at least) is truly a simple, basic and fatal flaw. reading on the ecu forums, thats pretty much the first thing anyone tries to do who cares to "do it right". even if it's not perfect, it's still far better assuming you've got things sane. and it's simply impossible to try and manage a set of tunes for all the different fueling combinations without doing that. it makes every single tune un-comparable without painful and slow re-calculating to what should be "right" . so why not just do it that way? the "ecu" (the rest of the tune program that is basically untouchable aside from anyone who knows how to disassemble the code and plug in their own code) will never control boost well if IQ is not close to reality. you can definitely fudge the pump map/timing and not use real IQ values and the car can feel really good, but boost control will always suck unless you drive at an even keel and do gradual pedal pressing.