Anyone with a S7 turbo?

[TDI_G]

7k miles and they wouldn't warranty it? That's a crock of ****.

Note to self, buy the Garrett VNT17 when it is time to replace turbo.

 

[turbocharged798]

Ya I loved the turbo too up until about 6 months ago and 7k miles after I put it in the shaft snapped. Oil lines checked out OK along with the oil pump and everything else on the motor. Was running about 18-20lbs of boost max with the turbo when it let go. Apparently it must of had a boost surge and snapped as I was cruising down the interstate according to the folks at kerma so they don't cover that under the warranty. Since then I rebuilt the stock turbo and been running the same amount of boost for the last 6 months with no issues so far. If and when the vnt 15 let's go again I think I'd go with vnt 17 turbo next

Snapped shafts are pretty common with BW turbos. Used to happen all the time with the KP39s.

 

[vwdieseling]

Oil quality a must. Also 18 to 20 PSI is pretty high boost for a BW turbo in my opinion. BW makes a good turbo, but the Garrett in my opinion is better. I have a KPO II on my 1.8 gasser Beetle, but it only puts out about 8 PSI of boost. Good turbo. At lets say 75 MPH that much PSI unless your accelerating with your foot pushing on the accelerator pedal is pretty high. Also you must prime the turbo at installation before initial start up or damage can occur even slight and this will manifest itself later down the road.

 

[vwdieseling]

I agree that quality oil is a must and warmup/cool down cycles should be compulsory to aid life of the turbo. I just think triple K turbos (BW) get a bad rep. My 1.8t raddo had the standard K04-20 on it and even though i completely abused it for 2 and half years It never once gave me a single problem. The journal still feels tightish for a 14 year old turbo. Id say its down to way you warm it up/ cool down
Here's my boost guage on the 1.8t. not excatly gentle on the turbo

That's pretty high if your gauge is correct. I run a digital in my 1.9 diesel. My Garrett VNT15 boosts at maxs at about 18 psi according to my gauge. I sometimes wonder how accurate it is. My original was a Glowshift digital and my sending unit took a dump. I went with a really low grade Dragon digital with a 20 PSI boost alarm. My 1.8 T BW I don't have gauged, but it really puts out the boost. Because of the 1.8 T oil sludge problems I run Mobil full synthetic I think it helps keep the turbo lubricated. But I do agree a five minute idle before engine shut down helps. I know that most U.S. military vehicles this is standard procedures. I agree pampering your turbo is good, they last for that 500,000 miles. The BW turbo is a downgrade for the 1.9 TDI. I also agree that BW makes a solid turbo, but they must be used for the right engine and application.

 

[burpod]

Oil quality a must. Also 18 to 20 PSI is pretty high boost for a BW turbo in my opinion. BW makes a good turbo, but the Garrett in my opinion is better. I have a KPO II on my 1.8 gasser Beetle, but it only puts out about 8 PSI of boost. Good turbo. At lets say 75 MPH that much PSI unless your accelerating with your foot pushing on the accelerator pedal is pretty high. Also you must prime the turbo at installation before initial start up or damage can occur even slight and this will manifest itself later down the road.

most people, including myself, have not "primed" their turdos with oil prior to running and have never had any problems "manifesting" themselves many miles later

at 7k, a turdo should be warrantied. there really isn't that much to screw up as long as you have a good clean airfilter setup (not k&n or hacked up pipes) or drive it like a complete moron...

 

[burpod]

also, the s7 is advertised as "150hp" which is certainly more than 20psi lol...

But I do agree a five minute idle before engine shut down helps. I know that most U.S. military vehicles this is standard procedures. I agree pampering your turbo is good, they last for that 500,000 miles.

a 5 minute turdo shutdown is ridiculous. if i've just pulled off the highway to a rest stop speeding like an absolute maniac, then i'll idle for a minute. but other than that, there is absolutely no point. and yes, i have EGT gauges mounted properly...

 

[vwdieseling]

also, the s7 is advertised as "150hp" which is certainly more than 20psi lol...



a 5 minute turdo shutdown is ridiculous. if i've just pulled off the highway to a rest stop speeding like an absolute maniac, then i'll idle for a minute. but other than that, there is absolutely no point. and yes, i have EGT gauges mounted properly...

I was referring to U.S. military diesel vehicles. They actually have a plastic sign affixed to the dash that indicates that the driver has to wait five minuets before shut down to allow the turbo to cool. This was on the old 2.5 ton multi fuel trucks. Commonly referred to as duce and a half with the Continental or White manufactured engines. It is standard operating procedure to prime a new or even used turbo after a fresh install. To each his own as far as I'm concerned I'll prime mine. It's not hard taking a funnel and your favorite brand of engine oil and putting it down the turbo oil intake line hole.

 

[vwdieseling]

Vcds verified 2 bar, but tapers off to 23-24 psi at upper rpms on 102 octane. It's the spikes I was worried about initially, the turbo kicks in quite savagely.always ran liqui moly 5w40 since I got engine. I don't usually let my engine idle, I find that just heat-soaks the engine. Just drive lot slower after a heavy boosting session for minute or two depending on heat to allow coolant pump to shift the coolant around bit quicker, close to where im going to finish driving. Then 10 second idle, turn off. Ive adapted this for my tdi but it shouldn't see nowhere near as much heat as my 1.8t did

Yes, I think that's why they put the coolant pump on the 1.8 T is to keep the turbo cool. I only let my diesel idle for about a minute before shut down. Man your almost running aviation fuel in that thing. I love my 1.8 T 20 valve the engine has its design flaws but man I love those horses or KW's.

 

[vwdieseling]

also, the s7 is advertised as "150hp" which is certainly more than 20psi lol...



a 5 minute turdo shutdown is ridiculous. if i've just pulled off the highway to a rest stop speeding like an absolute maniac, then i'll idle for a minute. but other than that, there is absolutely no point. and yes, i have EGT gauges mounted properly...

I only let my POV 1.9 VW TDI Beetle idle about a minute before shut down. My wife even less. I was only using the U.S. military example to explain. The military especially the Army will push a military diesel to a million miles and they have procedures to do it. The U.S. government even the U.S. post office pushes their vehicles as far as they can go. They implemented procedures for drivers to follow to do this. The tri fuel vehicles run on diesel, kerosene or gasoline. If you run gasoline you must mix in a quart of oil for every gallon of gas to lubricate the injection pump. These are only six cylinder engines so the turbos are quite large.

 

[vwdieseling]

Mine was near the limit of a standard 1.8t, 294 hp and 302 lbs/ft and I used a mk3 diesel gearbox to spread the torque out a little wider.it was the most fun ive ever had for $3500 for engine conversion, maybe next time it I'll build a diesel raddo. Think there's a few guys on here that have built one.

Im in the forces and rebuild diesel engines day in, day out and inspect them. Obviously the tank engines are bigger than my jetta but they are easier to work on.
I used to work on vertically opposed 2 stroke diesels that could run on nearly anything that burned.2 crankshafts and a pain in the a$$ to time injection pump.

Anyway on topic, I was thinking about looking at getting a s7 turbo but ill think ill save up for the vnt 17 if they're offering a verbal warranty on a turbo

I like the Garrett's. I would go with a Garrett before a BW. But the BW's I've had and have were and are good turbos. You probably messed with that German Leopard. I know the Canadians are big on them. They're superior on fuel primarily diesel. A high miles per gallon tank. The Abrams is an aviation fuel hog, but a power house.

I'm surprised your bottom end of your 1.8 can handle that much horsepower. I was told with a reflash on the ECM and adding a KO III the horsepower can be boosted to 255 hp but anything higher will strain the crank and rod bearings.

 

[vwdieseling]

Just want to say if the shaft on your S7, which is a even a debate on this forum as far as the term S7. Borg Warner S technology is good technology. The 1.8 T gasser has a KO II Borg Warner the Germans know that people don't let their cars idle engine after shut down so they added an electric water pump that circulates coolant threw the turbo. The KO II is both liquid and oil cooled. "The reason compressor shaft coking."

It seems to me that if you had done a proper install they would cover a warranty on it.

Garrett's seem a little tougher.

 

[jjs01tdi]

Originally when the turbo went out I called Kerma and talked to them about a the warranty on the turbo and they said the only way to warranty the turbo would be able to prove 100% without a doubt that the turbo failed because of a manufacturing defect which is hard to do once the shaft snaps and the fins are damaged so bad it hard to prove 100%. I went on to ask how many turbos they have warrantied in the past and I was told no turbo has been warrantied. After putting the post up on here about the turbo failure they have called me to try to retract there staytment about never giving a warranty on there turbo and now are all of the sudden interested in helping me out. Only bad thing is since the turbo failure and being told there was nothing they could do for me I have since given away the housings of the turbo to contribute to someone else's homemade motorcycle turbo project. I did have the oil lines checked and the rest of the motor gone through to see if lack of oil flow or return line being blocked could of contributed to the turbo failure and everything checked out OK. I'll keep everyone informed on what comes out of this situation.

 

[vwdieseling]

Originally when the turbo went out I called Kerma and talked to them about a the warranty on the turbo and they said the only way to warranty the turbo would be able to prove 100% without a doubt that the turbo failed because of a manufacturing defect which is hard to do once the shaft snaps and the fins are damaged so bad it hard to prove 100%. I went on to ask how many turbos they have warrantied in the past and I was told no turbo has been warrantied. After putting the post up on here about the turbo failure they have called me to try to retract there staytment about never giving a warranty on there turbo and now are all of the sudden interested in helping me out. Only bad thing is since the turbo failure and being told there was nothing they could do for me I have since given away the housings of the turbo to contribute to someone else's homemade motorcycle turbo project. I did have the oil lines checked and the rest of the motor gone through to see if lack of oil flow or return line being blocked could of contributed to the turbo failure and everything checked out OK. I'll keep everyone informed on what comes out of this situation.

I've been on KERMA'S website. They offer many varieties of high performance tunes with their turbos. I'm a stock person myself staying in OE specifications. The Borg Warners are made just north of me in Mich. It seems KERMA should make good on their sales. I've never had a problem with a BW turbo.

 

[vwdieseling]

Nope. The agreed highest output on standard internals is around 320 lb/ft mark on the standard rods.It's the torque that bends the rods and they're the first to go. I believe someone has found the limit of a 1.8t crank at around 900-1000 hp. mine started life as a 225hp out of a tt so it has the k04-20 standard

I've heard different, but it like I said is what I heard. So I don't have any practical experience with doing a performance on the 1.8 T. I have one in my 01 Beetle. I like the response to the pedal. I like the engine. I know the 1.8 out of the Audi TT's has a few more stock horsepower. I worked on a TT a couple of years ago. Just brakes and replaced the N75 vacuum line because the turbo wasn't spooling.

 

[GTSLOW]

I was referring to U.S. military diesel vehicles. They actually have a plastic sign affixed to the dash that indicates that the driver has to wait five minuets before shut down to allow the turbo to cool. This was on the old 2.5 ton multi fuel trucks. Commonly referred to as duce and a half with the Continental or White manufactured engines. It is standard operating procedure to prime a new or even used turbo after a fresh install. To each his own as far as I'm concerned I'll prime mine. It's not hard taking a funnel and your favorite brand of engine oil and putting it down the turbo oil intake line hole.

While I'm not saying it's a bad idea. I have never in my 10+ years of current and ongoing service seen one of these signs in any military vehicle I've driven. HEMTT, HMMWV, FMTV, etc...

 

[vwdieseling]

While I'm not saying it's a bad idea. I have never in my 10+ years of current and ongoing service seen one of these signs in any military vehicle I've driven. HEMTT, HMMWV, FMTV, etc...

My Army driver licenses have expired years ago. The old A3 are out of service. The 2 and a half tons were replaced with a cab over 2 and a 1/2 ton LTC. I've never driven one of these. I remember having to take it easy on the axles as far as taking ditches and off road obstacles. The A3 was upgraded in the late 80's with an automatic transmission. I believe the White tri fuels six cylinders produced about 135 HP there were two main engines used the White and Continentals. The old two and a half tons were replaced in the early 2000's with a LTC I believe. I still do stuff with the Army NG, but don't operate any vehicles, I have a chance to get licensed again HUM VEE and LTC. I'm not a driver, but in the early 80's I was licensed for the two and a half ton and jeep. OLD SCHOOL??? So your right and I won't contest it on the newer ones.

Video one of truck:

http://www.bing.com/videos/search?q=2+and+a+1%2f2+ton+Army+truck&FORM=VIRE1#view=detail&mid=EC12BEB38FB5922B1268EC12BEB38FB5922B1268

Watch this video close and you will see what I'm talking about as far as the sign in the cab for the turbo: M35A2. It is the black plaque in the middle of the front dash. Also a second plaque for start up. The M35A2 later model had a five speed automatic and tire inflation system, CTS. These have been phased out. Listen to the turbo.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=ATydWsWxOf4

 

[mountain lion]

Originally when the turbo went out I called Kerma and talked to them about a the warranty on the turbo and they said the only way to warranty the turbo would be able to prove 100% without a doubt that the turbo failed because of a manufacturing defect which is hard to do once the shaft snaps and the fins are damaged so bad it hard to prove 100%. I went on to ask how many turbos they have warrantied in the past and I was told no turbo has been warrantied. After putting the post up on here about the turbo failure they have called me to try to retract there staytment about never giving a warranty on there turbo and now are all of the sudden interested in helping me out. Only bad thing is since the turbo failure and being told there was nothing they could do for me I have since given away the housings of the turbo to contribute to someone else's homemade motorcycle turbo project. I did have the oil lines checked and the rest of the motor gone through to see if lack of oil flow or return line being blocked could of contributed to the turbo failure and everything checked out OK. I'll keep everyone informed on what comes out of this situation.

Good to know...won't be buying a turbo from Kerma in the future and won't be buying an S7 either.

 

[vwdieseling]

Good to know...won't be buying a turbo from Kerma in the future and won't be buying an S7 either.

I agree KERMA should cover it. Seven months isn't a long time to have a turbo before it goes out. The cost of these things is high. The S7 is cheaper than the Garrett VNT's by about 200.00 dollars. I would buy from a better source, but with turbos even the best vendors get crappy.

 

[GTSLOW]

So when they say "direct drop in" does this mean a tune or no tune? Also I'm guessing the S7 is far more capable than the stock BEW PD turbo?

 

[lirunaway]

I keep seeing post on that the S7 spools up faster than the VNT17.
Does it spool up faster than stock?

Also I had the S7 put on my car, but the outlet hose doesn't line up. I read that on a BEW it may need to be reclocked. I don't see how to do that.

 

[Viesel]

My Borg Warner S7 lasted 850 miles. Installed it, along with the DLC injectors, oil line, 3bar map that they said I needed, got in the car the next day, drove it from Tampa FL to Winston Salem NC. Got 50 mpg, cruise set on 80mph mostly flat ground boost was around 4 to 7 psi just like my old vnt 17. Made it to Dads late last night, got up this morning, started the car to crank up the air con to cool it down, after running about 10 seconds I heard a nasty clatter-chatter noise. I revved up the engine a little and instantly knew what it was. Turbo shaft had snapped. Now how in the heck can that happen with a great break-in period of an 11 hour steady 75-80 mph mostly flat ground cruise. Fresh rotella syn oil, filter, just ran perfect the entire trip. I was pleased with it. I am going to see what they have to say about warranty, but if they try to tell me like whats stated in their website that a qualified person needs to install it, well I will fight that one. I have an engineering degree in aircraft turbine engines and worked in that field many years back along with working on VW and MB turbo diesels my entire life. I think I am qualified. I'm curious as to what they are going to say to get out of replacing it. $1000 for 850 miles is harsh.

 

[lirunaway]

My owners manual says:
Break -in period

For the first 600 miles:
* Do not use use full throttle.
* Do not drive faster than 3/4 of top speed shown on the speedometer
* Avoid high engine speeds

From 600 to 1,000 miles
Speeds can gradually be increased to maximum permissible road or engine speed.

I don't know if this has anything to do with break-in for a turbo.

 

[Joester]

My Borg Warner S7 lasted 850 miles. Installed it, along with the DLC injectors, oil line, 3bar map that they said I needed, got in the car the next day, drove it from Tampa FL to Winston Salem NC. Got 50 mpg, cruise set on 80mph mostly flat ground boost was around 4 to 7 psi just like my old vnt 17. Made it to Dads late last night, got up this morning, started the car to crank up the air con to cool it down, after running about 10 seconds I heard a nasty clatter-chatter noise. I revved up the engine a little and instantly knew what it was. Turbo shaft had snapped. Now how in the heck can that happen with a great break-in period of an 11 hour steady 75-80 mph mostly flat ground cruise. Fresh rotella syn oil, filter, just ran perfect the entire trip. I was pleased with it. I am going to see what they have to say about warranty, but if they try to tell me like whats stated in their website that a qualified person needs to install it, well I will fight that one. I have an engineering degree in aircraft turbine engines and worked in that field many years back along with working on VW and MB turbo diesels my entire life. I think I am qualified. I'm curious as to what they are going to say to get out of replacing it. $1000 for 850 miles is harsh.

I'm interested in hearing the result of this one. Did you have a boost gauge to monitor pressure, or any logs?

I've got about 15k or so on my Borg Warner BV-39 that I got straight from Borg Warner with no issues. 22psi, full throttle pretty much everywhere I go. I guess the shaft could snap in half tomorrow, though.

 

[Viesel]

Yes I have boost egt oil gauges.

 

[LNXGUY]

850 miles, lol. And people wonder why the VNT17 comes so highly recommended.

 

[Viesel]

My old VNT17 was just leaking a lot of oil out rear seal. If I can find a new seal maybe I can just replace that and reinstall it.

 

[Viesel]

I just spoke to someone at Kermatdi and the guy didnt have a clue about anything I was asking. Seems he was looking up the info on the website because he then read it off to me word by word as I see it on the site. Anything outside of what he could read off to me, he was clueless. Then he claimed he was the shipping manager and was in the east coast warehouse at the moment and didnt have any information in front of him.

 

[2000TDIdarrell]

im am about to install this turbo I hope I dont have any of these issues.

 

[Abacus]

Damn, I'm staying away from them.

 

[Viesel]

I spoke to 2 more people at Kerma and they finally told me to ship it back to them and they will send it off to Borg Warner and have it evaluated. May take a couple weeks tho. I will let you guys know what all happens.